Tesla Master Plan part deux

[Impasse]

I heard they will be sponsoring an obscure Welsh rugby club soon.

[jjlynn27]

Mr GrimNasty said:

jjlynn27 said:

Mr GrimNasty said:

And where would Musk be without an endless supply of other people's money extorted under the climate change false flag?

Opportunist with powerful connections, yes, business/tech genius, no.

He is looking increasingly desperate and erratic to keep the charade going, maybe even gone a bit doolally, if you ask me.

So the founder of zip2, paypal, tesla, spaceX is not 'business/tech' genius.

Someone is looking increasingly desperate, and it's not Musk.

Oh dear, do so research, probably best to avoid the staff fanzine though.

You are pure comedy gold. One of the most successful entrepreneurs is being described 'a bit doolally' by angry twerp on PH. You couldn't make up this st. And all available free.

[Mr GrimNasty]

jjlynn27 said:

Mr GrimNasty said:

jjlynn27 said:

Mr GrimNasty said:

And where would Musk be without an endless supply of other people's money extorted under the climate change false flag?

Opportunist with powerful connections, yes, business/tech genius, no.

He is looking increasingly desperate and erratic to keep the charade going, maybe even gone a bit doolally, if you ask me.

So the founder of zip2, paypal, tesla, spaceX is not 'business/tech' genius.

Someone is looking increasingly desperate, and it's not Musk.

Oh dear, do so research, probably best to avoid the staff fanzine though.

You are pure comedy gold. One of the most successful entrepreneurs is being described 'a bit doolally' by angry twerp on PH. You couldn't make up this st. And all available free.

$5 billion in government subsidies, vast majority of the Musk 'empire' burning cash like it's going out of fashion, vast majority never made a profit, increasingly erratic and random business decisions to stave off the wolves, increasingly grandiose announcements ever further detached from achievability..........

Are you being intentionally hilariously deluded?

[Pesty]

JD said:

TEKNOPUG said:

85Kwh battery

20Kwh daily charge

35,000,000 vehicles

= 700,000,000Kwh

= 700,000Mwh

= 700Gwh daily demand

Current UK daily demand = 35Gwh....

Edited by TEKNOPUG on Thursday 21st July 11:19

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-28546589

Using average mileage 9000 miles

@3 miles/kWh = 3000kWh a year per vehicle

8.2 kWh a day per vehicle

35m vehicles is 287,671,232 kWh

= 287gWh a day

Average grid demand of 12gW over the course of a day.

All those wind farms will cover it.

[The Hypno-Toad]

What would impress me at the moment is if he could stop people killing other people in the name of some sky pixie. Until we get that sorted out, all this other bks about self driving cars and going to the moon is just that.

That really would be genius.

[Wills2]

The Hypno-Toad said:

What would impress me at the moment is if he could stop people killing other people in the name of some sky pixie. Until we get that sorted out, all this other bks about self driving cars and going to the moon is just that.

That really would be genius.

Find a way to monetise the solution and I'm sure it would be over in a flash.

[RobDickinson]

Jader1973 said:

I can refuel my car in 5 minutes and then have a 700km range. Amazing isn't it! I can also drive it wherever I want and am highly likely be able to find someplace to fill it up (in 5 minutes). Truely awesome tech!

As per an earlier post in this thread, I read an article about the new E Class today: the tech in it is truely amazing and way ahead of anything Tesla has.

They also aren't pushing the "look it can drive itself" angle, probably because they (and every other established manufacturer) know how dangerous it is due to the immature tech something Tesla seem happy to ignore.

What percentage of drivers do 700kmns a day? What percentage of drivers do you want doing 700kms a day without a 30min break in there? Thats a stop for toilet, coffee and a sandwich. BEV's could be made with that range with huge batteries but almost no one would ever need it. The average daily mileage is tiny, and 300km range covers almost every trip.

And think of how many times you are filling up your car, 5min what once a week? BEV's you almost always recharge at home overnight so you overall will save more time than loose.

[RobDickinson]

joema said:

So electric vehicles could potentially reduce one issue depending on energy source and if its clean.

But it doesn't address issue of the amount of vehicles on the road in a finite space.

Suppose autopilot could increase efficiency once the software behind it gets advanced enough.

A fully autonomous transport system would be far more efficient.

No waiting at lights, far faster travel, more efficient routing etc.

Much smaller public transport taking you door to door will get more people out of solo occupancy cars too.

[jjlynn27]

Mr GrimNasty said:

jjlynn27 said:

Mr GrimNasty said:

jjlynn27 said:

Mr GrimNasty said:

And where would Musk be without an endless supply of other people's money extorted under the climate change false flag?

Opportunist with powerful connections, yes, business/tech genius, no.

He is looking increasingly desperate and erratic to keep the charade going, maybe even gone a bit doolally, if you ask me.

So the founder of zip2, paypal, tesla, spaceX is not 'business/tech' genius.

Someone is looking increasingly desperate, and it's not Musk.

Oh dear, do so research, probably best to avoid the staff fanzine though.

You are pure comedy gold. One of the most successful entrepreneurs is being described 'a bit doolally' by angry twerp on PH. You couldn't make up this st. And all available free.

$5 billion in government subsidies, vast majority of the Musk 'empire' burning cash like it's going out of fashion, vast majority never made a profit, increasingly erratic and random business decisions to stave off the wolves, increasingly grandiose announcements ever further detached from achievability..........

Are you being intentionally hilariously deluded?

Ok Warren.

If he can get $5 billion in government subsidies, imagine what could someone like you get. Without 'erratic' and 'random' business decisions.



Musk = erratic business decisions. I guess that paypal thing will never catch on. Daft bloke.

[RobDickinson]

Lets see how good old stable USA industry is doing.

Motor vehicles:
Recently GM,Ford and Chrysler asked for $50bn bail out, got $25bn, then a further $17bn emergency bail out , and then Chrysler and GM promptly went bankrupt.

Rockets:
ULA get $1bn a year government subsidy just to do nothing other than exist. Even with this subsidy they cant compete with SpaceX, the last military launch contract they didnt even bid because their launch would be $460million in comparison to $93million.

Every business is going to try milk the government for subsidies and incentives. You'd be stupid not to.

[Tonsko]

SpaceX is really impressive. NASA said reusable spacecraft is a dud, so whilst nothing actually has been reused just yet, it's only a matter of time. Getting an autonomous space rocket to land on a floating platform is pretty great. If he doesn't do it, Bezos will.

Musk has also done more to get EVs taken up than any other manufacturer. All his patents are being open sourced, so that other companies won't have to reinvent the wheel... I don't know why you're so down on him. His objectives are for everyone's benefit, stated that time and time again.

Edited by Tonsko on Thursday 21st July 22:34

[anonymous-user]

Mr GrimNasty said:

Oh dear, do so research, probably best to avoid the staff fanzine though.

I can't work out your problem with the guy. His achievements are absolutely incredible. I think my hydrocarbon burning credentials are in order but until you've been in a Tesla S I don't think you can understand it is the perfect commuting car; the only alternative IMO to a Rolls, that inconveniently can destroy most petrol sports cars. 1st Gen, Autopilot, are you fvcking kidding me? It's science fiction. He built the company from nothing and produced the model s in 13 years!!! Compare that to TVR; all they've got to do is drop a crate engine in a canoe. Spacex charges something like $5000/kg into orbit compared to Boeing that charges 5 times that and NASA cost even more. Battery factory is a battery factory it's not that interesting but if you know you're going to need hundreds of thousands of batteries well it's kinda obvious. If Musk isn't a genius I don't know who is. Oh and whilst he might not design the rockets himself, write the AI code for autopilot or have personally discovered any Li ion chemistry he has educated himself enough to understand what is possible, what is theoretically possible, what needs to be done to achieve the theoretically possible, and actually gone out and made it happen. In multiple fields. Put aside his green evangelism and give the guy some credit.

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 21st July 23:05

[Leithen]

fblm said:

I can't work out your problem with the guy. His achievements are absolutely incredible. I think my hydrocarbon burning credentials are in order but until you've been in a Tesla S I don't think you can understand it is the perfect commuting car; the only alternative IMO to a Rolls. 1st Gen, Autopilot, are you fvcking kidding me? It's science fiction. He built the company from nothing, compare it to TVR; all they've got to do is drop a crate engine in a canoe. Spacex charges something like $5000/kg into orbit compared to Boeing that charges 5 times that and NASA cost even more. Battery factory is a battery factory it's not that interesting but if you know you're going to need hundreds of thousands of batteries well it's kinda obvious. If Musk isn't a genius I don't know who is.

Shhh... think of all those poor short sellers desperately needing Tesla shares to plummet.....

[anonymous-user]

Some Gump said:

Autonomous driving? Miles away.

Googles cars have done 2 million miles now in autonomous mode, with a dozen crashes, none of which were the cars fault, most of which the google car was hit from behind whilst stationary. As the autonomous cars rapidly surpass human safety levels the manufacturers will simply be insured for auto mode and the drivers for manual. Once the autonomous cars start talking to each other the only crashes you will ever hear about will be idiots like us bouncing off the robot cars and into the scenery.

[loafer123]

Pesty said:

JD said:

TEKNOPUG said:

85Kwh battery

20Kwh daily charge

35,000,000 vehicles

= 700,000,000Kwh

= 700,000Mwh

= 700Gwh daily demand

Current UK daily demand = 35Gwh....

Edited by TEKNOPUG on Thursday 21st July 11:19

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-28546589

Using average mileage 9000 miles

@3 miles/kWh = 3000kWh a year per vehicle

8.2 kWh a day per vehicle

35m vehicles is 287,671,232 kWh

= 287gWh a day

Average grid demand of 12gW over the course of a day.

All those wind farms will cover it.

Except it isn't 35m vehicles because they are shared.

And the electricity is needed mostly at night when there is spare capacity.

[anonymous-user]

loafer123 said:

Except it isn't 35m vehicles because they are shared.

I think not. My cars are either for fun or mobile creches. Call me selfish but I'm not sharing any of em.

[Talksteer]

Tonsko said:

Leithen said:

Always a good chuckle reading posts being sceptical or worse of Musk.

Reading some posts, you'd be forgiven for thinking he was a snake-oil salesman who'd never achieved anything.

Good luck to him and anyone else who aims for Mars. He's brutally honest about his failures and rightly proud of his achievements.

More like him required.

Quite.

Unlike many entrepreneurs Musk actually has hard engineering/physics skills.

His first two ventures were right place, right time. SpaceX, Tesla and solar city are all based on first principles observations.

SpaceX was based on the realisation that the cost of space rockets was very much greater than the cost of the fuel plus some relatively light aero structures.

Tesla wasn't actually founded by him but he was an early investor. Since the PhD he dropped out of was on batteries and super capacitors, he had done some of the basic energy density calculations that electric cars were possible with lithium ion batteries and that they were only going to get cheaper and more energy dense.

Solar city the calculation was that in sunny countries with a low population density solar would be able to supply enough electricity to run the grid. It would just need to get cheaper, however looking at the rate at which it is getting cheaper it will become competitive very soon.

Won't ever work in the UK though!

[mybrainhurts]

:cough: new battery :cough: $29,000 :cough: at cost :splutter:

[RobDickinson]

mybrainhurts said:

:cough: new battery :cough: $29,000 :cough: at cost :splutter:

Where did you see that?

list price for the 85kw is $45k I think if you just wander in off the street wanting one.

But if you actually own a tesla its:
$12,000 for 85 kWh
$10,000 for 60 kWh
Guaranteed.

How much would BMW charge you for a complete M5 powerplant?

[AW111]

One thing I like about Tesla is that it's success winds the luddites up into a frothing rage!

After years of saying practical electric cars were impossible, out comes the roadster.
They belittled that, said ev were boring and slow.
Then came the model S, with supercar-blitzing performance.
So they said "far too expensive - ev's are just toys for the rich"
Now Tesla are producing the model 3 - "replacing battery packs will ruin you"