Which 'Super Defender'?
Discussion
This is just me doing some early research and is not likely to lead to spending oodles until next year.
If you were going the 'bespoke, super Defender' route - who would you use and why?
Twisted, Nene, JE? Who else?
And generally what things should I consider with this type of vehicle.
I'll probably end up with something completely different (and keep my current Defender) - but I am very interested in bespoke defenders, so am keen to get other people's thoughts/experiences.
(and I don't just mean different wheels and some leather seats - I mean whacking in different engines, gear boxes, suspension, brakes, etc etc)
If you were going the 'bespoke, super Defender' route - who would you use and why?
Twisted, Nene, JE? Who else?
And generally what things should I consider with this type of vehicle.
I'll probably end up with something completely different (and keep my current Defender) - but I am very interested in bespoke defenders, so am keen to get other people's thoughts/experiences.
(and I don't just mean different wheels and some leather seats - I mean whacking in different engines, gear boxes, suspension, brakes, etc etc)
Well what do you want it for? As in, what will it be used for and why?
In reality, there is little wrong with a standard Defender for normal use. It'll perform a multitude of things well. So long as you accept the limitations of the design.
If you are wanting to make it uber comfy and refined --- forget it.
You could write a 6 figure cheque out and still end up way behind a standard Disco 1 in this regard.
Land Rover made some massive design changes on the Discovery (and Range Rover) to improve NVH, refinement and interior space. And no matter how much you spend on a Defender, you'll never overcome the design shortfalls in this regard.
Now I'm a BIG Land Rover fan. But I like mine to go off road. So the tarted up w
king machines don't really appeal to me. And honestly not only, do they look naff, but make anyone who is driving them look a bit of a tit.
On road performance can of course be improved. But you still need to accept it is a live axle 4x4. So it'll never be a sports car. Although I can see the appeal of one that is more capable and fast.
As for buying one. Well if you already have a nice 90, I'd have thought modding that would be cheaper.
Lots of options for more power. Depends really on your pockets and end goals.
J&E offer some interesting options, 5 cylinder 3.2 diesel, TDV6 and of course AJV8 power, including the supercharged option. But you'll need DEEP DEEP pockets for any of them.
Not that there is anything mystical about what they do.
The 3.2 is a PUMA engine, same as a Tdci Defender. The 3.2 is the one from the Ford Ranger. So it bolts up to the gearbox.
The TDV6 is essentially just a Disco 3 or 4 transplant. Using the Disco 6 speed manual if you want it. I think they mod the chassis slightly to make it fit. But nothing extreme and chassis modding is common in the off road world of the Defender anyhow.
On this note, as a road vehicle, a D3 is arguably better than a Defender. Ok, a little bigger and heavier. But is better at everything else road wise.
AJV8's are similar to the TDV6, use the Disco 3 manual box or auto ones.
Axles are just beefed up, usually with bits from Ashcroft or similar and sometimes a rear LSD (although buying these bits direct and getting them fitted is a heck of a lot cheaper than what J&E want for them).
Suspension. Again nothing magic here. All that is done to pretty much all of the Defender's are stiffer shorter springs to lower them. Some polybushes and maybe some different valved dampers. All easy bolt on items.
I think J&E might offer a quicker ratio steering box. But it's not strictly needed.
Nene I think just use the Mustang 5.0 V8 (the Cougar module V8, also used in other Ford vehicles). They do this because the 6 speed gearbox in a Tdci Defender is the same as used in the Mustang, so it all bolts up.
But these engines are new and rare in the UK.
The rest is just the same as anyone, only somewhat questionable styling.
There are adapter kits to fit Chevy V8's, including the LS series (current Corvette/Camaro, etc). But I don't think anyone specialises in just these in the UK.
A bit more involved, as you either use the older 5 speed box, which isn't up to the power really, or you swap in a different transmission. Most end up being auto's.
In reality, there is little wrong with a standard Defender for normal use. It'll perform a multitude of things well. So long as you accept the limitations of the design.
If you are wanting to make it uber comfy and refined --- forget it.
You could write a 6 figure cheque out and still end up way behind a standard Disco 1 in this regard.
Land Rover made some massive design changes on the Discovery (and Range Rover) to improve NVH, refinement and interior space. And no matter how much you spend on a Defender, you'll never overcome the design shortfalls in this regard.
Now I'm a BIG Land Rover fan. But I like mine to go off road. So the tarted up w
king machines don't really appeal to me. And honestly not only, do they look naff, but make anyone who is driving them look a bit of a tit.On road performance can of course be improved. But you still need to accept it is a live axle 4x4. So it'll never be a sports car. Although I can see the appeal of one that is more capable and fast.
As for buying one. Well if you already have a nice 90, I'd have thought modding that would be cheaper.
Lots of options for more power. Depends really on your pockets and end goals.
J&E offer some interesting options, 5 cylinder 3.2 diesel, TDV6 and of course AJV8 power, including the supercharged option. But you'll need DEEP DEEP pockets for any of them.
Not that there is anything mystical about what they do.
The 3.2 is a PUMA engine, same as a Tdci Defender. The 3.2 is the one from the Ford Ranger. So it bolts up to the gearbox.
The TDV6 is essentially just a Disco 3 or 4 transplant. Using the Disco 6 speed manual if you want it. I think they mod the chassis slightly to make it fit. But nothing extreme and chassis modding is common in the off road world of the Defender anyhow.
On this note, as a road vehicle, a D3 is arguably better than a Defender. Ok, a little bigger and heavier. But is better at everything else road wise.
AJV8's are similar to the TDV6, use the Disco 3 manual box or auto ones.
Axles are just beefed up, usually with bits from Ashcroft or similar and sometimes a rear LSD (although buying these bits direct and getting them fitted is a heck of a lot cheaper than what J&E want for them).
Suspension. Again nothing magic here. All that is done to pretty much all of the Defender's are stiffer shorter springs to lower them. Some polybushes and maybe some different valved dampers. All easy bolt on items.
I think J&E might offer a quicker ratio steering box. But it's not strictly needed.
Nene I think just use the Mustang 5.0 V8 (the Cougar module V8, also used in other Ford vehicles). They do this because the 6 speed gearbox in a Tdci Defender is the same as used in the Mustang, so it all bolts up.
But these engines are new and rare in the UK.
The rest is just the same as anyone, only somewhat questionable styling.
There are adapter kits to fit Chevy V8's, including the LS series (current Corvette/Camaro, etc). But I don't think anyone specialises in just these in the UK.
A bit more involved, as you either use the older 5 speed box, which isn't up to the power really, or you swap in a different transmission. Most end up being auto's.
Edited by 300bhp/ton on Thursday 21st July 14:00
Many thanks for that response, really appreciated.
I don't off-road. I pull a trailer infrequently.
It's mostly my daily drive to the station and back. And for throwing muddy dogs/mountain bike in the back. In future there are likely to me more longer (national and European) journeys.
I don't mind looking a t*t
. But I promise, the intention wouldn't be to make the exterior too sleek/bling.
I also have an L322 TDV8 FFRR. It's MY2011 and I really like it. But I don't really have access to it anymore. (it's the wife's).
I think you've probably answered my question for me, the choice really is between:
1) keep the current defender and spruce it up/maintain it as and when (it already has JE stage 2 mods to the TD5 and gearbox mod to make it 'better' on motorways) it needs it - and just accept the comfort limitations on longer journeys. (maybe add a second car that's more comfy - but really don't want to run/maintain 2)>
OR
2) get a new (or newer) TDV8 FFRR or RRS.
I don't off-road. I pull a trailer infrequently.
It's mostly my daily drive to the station and back. And for throwing muddy dogs/mountain bike in the back. In future there are likely to me more longer (national and European) journeys.
I don't mind looking a t*t
. But I promise, the intention wouldn't be to make the exterior too sleek/bling. I also have an L322 TDV8 FFRR. It's MY2011 and I really like it. But I don't really have access to it anymore. (it's the wife's).
I think you've probably answered my question for me, the choice really is between:
1) keep the current defender and spruce it up/maintain it as and when (it already has JE stage 2 mods to the TD5 and gearbox mod to make it 'better' on motorways) it needs it - and just accept the comfort limitations on longer journeys. (maybe add a second car that's more comfy - but really don't want to run/maintain 2)>
OR
2) get a new (or newer) TDV8 FFRR or RRS.
Edited by tomw2000 on Thursday 21st July 12:33
If you really are set on a Defender and want to do Euro trips, you might want to consider a 110. They are little heavier, and obviously longer to park if you are parallel parking. But no wider.
The advantage comes with the longer wheelbase, they will simply ride better and be less choppy. If touring the additional hauling space might be welcome too.
But it really comes down to what you think you'll be happy with. My Uncle has been out in the J&E supercharged V8 Defender 90 and he was hugely impressed with it. But then it carries a hugely massive price tag too.
If you are up for modding, then you can certainly make a fast good looking Defender for sensible money. Even if you pay other people to do the work.
On the flip side, I think you can special order a petrol V6 Wrangler though Jeep UK (although they make it difficult). These have 286bhp iirc and offer most of the same things as a Defender, but with a bigger, longer heritage and a much more modern and capable vehicle.
The advantage comes with the longer wheelbase, they will simply ride better and be less choppy. If touring the additional hauling space might be welcome too.
But it really comes down to what you think you'll be happy with. My Uncle has been out in the J&E supercharged V8 Defender 90 and he was hugely impressed with it. But then it carries a hugely massive price tag too.
If you are up for modding, then you can certainly make a fast good looking Defender for sensible money. Even if you pay other people to do the work.
On the flip side, I think you can special order a petrol V6 Wrangler though Jeep UK (although they make it difficult). These have 286bhp iirc and offer most of the same things as a Defender, but with a bigger, longer heritage and a much more modern and capable vehicle.
'There are adapter kits to fit Chevy V8's, including the LS series (current Corvette/Camaro, etc). But I don't think anyone specialises in just these in the UK.'
Wildcat do the ls installs, believe they do it for urban automotive.. twisted i believe initially had help from wildcat and rakeway think they've gone solo?
Interior wise, Twisted all day long..
I mountain bike / have a boat so have a 2.4 puma which is fairly well modified and much nicer for everyday driving, Alive's PP4 kit, springs, bilsteins upgraded lights recaro's big stereo and bigger brakes..
A smaller steering wheel (mono is the current trend) makes a huge difference.
Wildcat do the ls installs, believe they do it for urban automotive.. twisted i believe initially had help from wildcat and rakeway think they've gone solo?
Interior wise, Twisted all day long..
I mountain bike / have a boat so have a 2.4 puma which is fairly well modified and much nicer for everyday driving, Alive's PP4 kit, springs, bilsteins upgraded lights recaro's big stereo and bigger brakes..
A smaller steering wheel (mono is the current trend) makes a huge difference.
A friend has taken delivery of a new 110 Station Waggon with a 540 BHP LS3 crate engine from Twisted. Evidently, they have built a number of these and therefore the development is mature. He wanted a 6spd manual rather than the Auto most clients have opted for. No quilted leather, checker plating or tinted windows. However, it has Ohlins suspension with Twisted springs/roll bar set up, Brembo 6 pot brakes etc.
It drives very well and the engineering quality and finish from Twisted is excellent. As others have said, the price tag is not for the faint hearted.
It drives very well and the engineering quality and finish from Twisted is excellent. As others have said, the price tag is not for the faint hearted.
BlackGT3 said:
I can find out.
Also interested. I pick up the drivetrain out of a 2015 Holden Commodore VF SS (6.0lv8 auto - Gen 4) tomorrow for my Defender. I already have an adpater to fit the 6spd 6l80e auto to the LT230, originally I really wanted a manual, but that isnt so easy especially keeping the LT which was a priority for me having an underdrive in the car, and the short wheelbase limiting room.
I think they may initially have had some involvement from Rakeway. I am pretty sure they can do something with the tk0500/600 tremec boxes and an LT
Gassing Station | Land Rover | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff