US Police Shoot Unarmed Man With His Hands Up

[Lucas CAV]

Jimbeaux said:

ZX10R NIN said:

Jimbeaux said:

StottyEvo said:

Jimbeaux said:

scherzkeks said:

Same as it ever was, but the victims have smartphones now.

This cop is wrong and will be done up for this. That was a guy who does not need to be a cop.

As to the comments about cops in general; 99.9% of them are fantastic folks that face things you "over there" would cringe at. Sorry, no offense intended, just true. An apt comment about mobile phones; everyone does have them, they are provided for free by Uncle Sam if one cannot afford one.

With that in mind, why is it when there is black on black crime, (93% of black homicides are by other blacks-U.S. Dept. of Justice).(Blacks are 13% of the population but account for 52% of the homicides-U.S. Dept. of Justice). Where are all of the phone videos of these events? Why are the relatively miniscule % of cop on citizen shootings the only ones captured? Just a thought.

Edited by Jimbeaux on Thursday 21st July 19:52

"Just a thought" I don't think you can see it, but you and your thought process are pretty much the problem.

What the shuddering fk does black citizens killing other black citizens have to do with this event? Absolutely nothing, what a ridiculous post.

I disagree but that is part of what makes the world go around.

Black on Black Homicides for 2015 90%
White on White Homicides for 2015 82% figures provided by the FBI

Watch this & listen to what the commentator is saying & the tell me there's not a problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxyQtvv_1i8

52% of homicides are black people while they account for 13% of the population (FBI). That is troubling to a high degree.

Troubling but probably not surprising given recent US history.

Edited by Lucas CAV on Saturday 23 July 19:16

Edited by Lucas CAV on Sunday 24th July 12:32

[rxtx]

stitched said:

I have re read your post and I still think it was out of order.
It read as if you wished to stifle an opinion which differed from yours by being personally offensive.
I don't know Jim, doubt I'll ever meet him but I would submit that living in America, all his life I think, his contribution is likely to be, and has always seemed, well informed.
In order to have a meaningful debate do you not think information should be as full and clear as possible?
I have often disagreed with peoples opinions but never felt the urge to try and shut them out of a debate purely because of where they live.
I generally try not to sink to personal attacks as well (so this is not my normal style) because my mental age exeeds my shoe size.

I would be the last person to stifle any opinion, but you've missed my point yet again. Let me try again.

I take umbrage with someone that purports to represent the opinion of an entire nation, or even a portion of it, nothing else. I can quote Jim twice if you like, both the first part and the later modification.

Your mental age clearly doesn't exceed your shoe size, because you still felt you had to add that bit on the end, despite saying you try not to sink so low. Good for you, Internet Soldier.

[MrBrightSi]

Jimbeaux said:

dondadda said:

Jimbeaux said:

Thanks. I do not feel that police are "shooting people constantly". It seems so due to the media but I remind you of the hundreds of thousands of police interactions daily (with an armed public) vs. number of shootings, they are miniscule.

Tell that to the families of:

John Crawford III
Oscar Grant
Sean Bell
Tamir Rice
Michael Brown
Philando Castile
Ramarley Graham
Walter Scott
Levar Jones
Ezell Ford
Aiyanna Jones
Amadou Diallo
Akai Gurley
Jermaine McBean
Bernard Bailey
Kenneth Chamberlain


http://abc7.com/news/video-police-slam-black-woman...

Latest unnecessary violence exhibited by a US cop with some racist banter thrown in for good measure. The victim didnt even file a complaint. How many instances of this type of behaviour are not on video and how many citizens can just not be bothered to complain? Miniscule?

Edited by dondadda on Friday 22 July 16:47

16 out of hundreds of thousands of interactions everyday; yes, small amount and with an armed public. No comfort for those familes but I am speaking of numbers.

Families of which ones? The ones who were shown to of sort of earned their fate by trying to take a policeman's gun and the whole "Hands up dont shoot" message was a complete lie from that moment, but carry on gobbling up that steamy guilt and keep the Piers Morgan PH Generator going, you and others are adding so much fuel to that thing.

Before you go saying these men were killed by racist cops for no reason. READ THE fkING STORIES. Yes some are bad cops or bad shots. If you think that people in America join the police to get some good ol' lynching done, you're insane.

[rxtx]

I simply cannot believe he's still justifying it with numbers. It's almost nauseating.

Jim, if you think it's only a small percentage, and therefore it doesn't matter that much, then fine, that is your own personal opinion. In case you haven't noticed, there is a slight difference in culture between Europe and the US.

Please give it up and move onto another thread.

[stitched]

rxtx said:

stitched said:

I have re read your post and I still think it was out of order.
It read as if you wished to stifle an opinion which differed from yours by being personally offensive.
I don't know Jim, doubt I'll ever meet him but I would submit that living in America, all his life I think, his contribution is likely to be, and has always seemed, well informed.
In order to have a meaningful debate do you not think information should be as full and clear as possible?
I have often disagreed with peoples opinions but never felt the urge to try and shut them out of a debate purely because of where they live.
I generally try not to sink to personal attacks as well (so this is not my normal style) because my mental age exeeds my shoe size.

I would be the last person to stifle any opinion, but you've missed my point yet again. Let me try again.

I take umbrage with someone that purports to represent the opinion of an entire nation, or even a portion of it, nothing else. I can quote Jim twice if you like, both the first part and the later modification.

Your mental age clearly doesn't exceed your shoe size, because you still felt you had to add that bit on the end, despite saying you try not to sink so low. Good for you, Internet Soldier.

The irony in this is remarkable.
When you have a problem with someones posting style or content there is a little button marked 'report'.
This brings the post to the attention of a group known as 'moderators' who monitor the website on behalf of the owners.
Your last comment to Jim that he should leave the thread was unwarranted.

[Corpulent Tosser]

Jimbeaux said:

rxtx said:

Jimbeaux said:

One is too many; however, using pure percentages to overall interactions, what constitutes "alot"?

I've read of too many people being shot by police for no reason over the past couple of weeks. That's "a lot" to me.

You don't have to jump on every thread that mentions the US you know, you aren't their spokesperson and we aren't stupid enough to think it's every American/policeman/woman.

Well, seeing as you guys seem to obsess on US events so often, I thought it would be nice for you to have US perspective.

I don`t always agree with Jimbeaux, though I think I probably have more sympathy for US cops than many here, but regardless if you agree with him or not having the perspective of someone who lives in the US cannot be a bad thing.
Unless of course you only want to hear/see your own perspective agreed with.

[rscott]

Corpulent Tosser said:

I don`t always agree with Jimbeaux, though I think I probably have more sympathy for US cops than many here, but regardless if you agree with him or not having the perspective of someone who lives in the US cannot be a bad thing.
Unless of course you only want to hear/see your own perspective agreed with.

Even 5ohmustang's gun toting survivalist rants?

[Colonial]

Jimbeaux said:

No other civilized society has even a fraction of the weapons available to our populous. Taking that into account, I submit that those numbers are not as "off" as you portray.

That. Is. The. fking. Problem.

A civilised society doesn't just go "police kill8ng people continually for no reason. Whatever. What's on TV tonight?"

[Matt Harper]

4x4Tyke said:

Jimbeaux said:

Well, seeing as you guys seem to obsess on US events so often, I thought it would be nice for you to have US perspective.

Well US corporations like to shove their 'product' down our throats, especially when it is so easily consumed like 'media' in the same language.

The reality is we do regard the US as like us; which is why this stuff surprises and shocks us. It is discordant, incongruous; we really just don't get it, which makes it worth of discussion as we try to make sense of it.

Edited by 4x4Tyke on Friday 22 July 00:10

Maybe you could apply some of your own (selective) logic to the subject...

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[ZX10R NIN]

This is worth watching as it shows that the police aren't necessarily racist as individuals but they do become institutionally racist/prejudice against the minorities & the poor because of the need to keep arrest rates up etc & they're the biggest gang in most towns so guess who loses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5nPyf-0UMc

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Monday 25th July 01:18

[4x4Tyke]

Matt Harper said:

Maybe you could apply some of your own (selective) logic to the subject...

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

If this was an attempt at irony it falls flat.

It is evident these are exactly the same thing. An hysterical over reaction to low risk threat.

[Jimbeaux]

rxtx said:

Jimbeaux said:

stitched said:

Jimbeaux said:

rxtx said:

Jimbeaux said:

One is too many; however, using pure percentages to overall interactions, what constitutes "alot"?

I've read of too many people being shot by police for no reason over the past couple of weeks. That's "a lot" to me.

You don't have to jump on every thread that mentions the US you know, you aren't their spokesperson and we aren't stupid enough to think it's every American/policeman/woman.

Well, seeing as you guys seem to obsess on US events so often, I thought it would be nice for you to have US perspective.

I'm sorry but this is well out of order, does the fact I comment on threads regarding th UK mean that I am attempting to be a UK ambassador?
Jim has been posting sensible and well informed posts on here since well before I joined, he has a better perspective on events in the USA than most of us and personally I welcome his input.
What is your stance exactly? Should he refrain from posting on threads which touch on the states as he is biased? Will you refrain from posting on topics you feel strongly about?
Rant over, Jim please carry on as you have been.

Thank you sir. I will endeavor to contribute while stepping lightly in the egg shell patch.

Oh good grief. I don't even know where to start. I'm not here to make friends and I rarely post here anymore because of the polarised views, idiots (not you two, I hasten to add) and arguments that always ensue, but I know sycophantism when I see it, this place is rife with it.

Stitched, you've totally missed my point. I don't think you've ever said (I haven't looked, never noticed a post of yours before) that you represent an entire country's viewpoint. I notice that Jim changed it from "a US viewpoint" to a "portion" of the US viewpoint. Have a personal opinion, like I am now, sure - but do not purport to speak for an entire country of 320 million, or even a _portion_ of it. Delusions of grandeur springs to mind.


No passive "take a breath" or "eggshell" digs at the ends of my posts. Grow up Jim.

Now I am certain you need to take a breath.

[Jimbeaux]

MrBrightSi said:

Jimbeaux said:

dondadda said:

Jimbeaux said:

Thanks. I do not feel that police are "shooting people constantly". It seems so due to the media but I remind you of the hundreds of thousands of police interactions daily (with an armed public) vs. number of shootings, they are miniscule.

Tell that to the families of:

John Crawford III
Oscar Grant
Sean Bell
Tamir Rice
Michael Brown
Philando Castile
Ramarley Graham
Walter Scott
Levar Jones
Ezell Ford
Aiyanna Jones
Amadou Diallo
Akai Gurley
Jermaine McBean
Bernard Bailey
Kenneth Chamberlain


http://abc7.com/news/video-police-slam-black-woman...

Latest unnecessary violence exhibited by a US cop with some racist banter thrown in for good measure. The victim didnt even file a complaint. How many instances of this type of behaviour are not on video and how many citizens can just not be bothered to complain? Miniscule?

Edited by dondadda on Friday 22 July 16:47

16 out of hundreds of thousands of interactions everyday; yes, small amount and with an armed public. No comfort for those familes but I am speaking of numbers.

Families of which ones? The ones who were shown to of sort of earned their fate by trying to take a policeman's gun and the whole "Hands up dont shoot" message was a complete lie from that moment, but carry on gobbling up that steamy guilt and keep the Piers Morgan PH Generator going, you and others are adding so much fuel to that thing.

Before you go saying these men were killed by racist cops for no reason. READ THE fkING STORIES. Yes some are bad cops or bad shots. If you think that people in America join the police to get some good ol' lynching done, you're insane.

I see things as you do; was that directed at me?

[Jimbeaux]

rxtx said:

I simply cannot believe he's still justifying it with numbers. It's almost nauseating.

Jim, if you think it's only a small percentage, and therefore it doesn't matter that much, then fine, that is your own personal opinion. In case you haven't noticed, there is a slight difference in culture between Europe and the US.

Please give it up and move onto another thread.

I said the numbers are small, I did not diminish the tragedy.
Our cultures are different; congratulations, you have finally touched upon one of the main points of it all.
No, I choose to remain on this thread, thank you anyway.

[Sylvaforever]

MikeGTi said:

4x4Tyke said:

UK Forces cannot, usually, use lethal force to protect property. That would appear to be ROE from another nation.

Also missing the word "believe" as well iirc. What if it's someone running towards a building carrying a petrol bomb or suicide vest flapping in the breeze? [or wearing ,or NOT, a bulky jacket of some kind????]

Edited by Sylvaforever on Monday 25th July 13:15

[Matt Harper]

4x4Tyke said:

If this was an attempt at irony it falls flat.

It is evident these are exactly the same thing. An hysterical over reaction to low risk threat.

Quite - so go back and take a look at some of your comments regarding incidence of US police use of deadly force vs number of police/public interactions and apply the same rationale.

[gruffalo]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-p...

Just seen this, I would be very interested to see the stats for us police.

[rscott]

gruffalo said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-p...

Just seen this, I would be very interested to see the stats for us police.

Amazingly, there's no official statistics on this recorded by the US . The only figures available are those collated by various independent groups.

[anonymous-user]

rscott said:

gruffalo said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-p...

Just seen this, I would be very interested to see the stats for us police.

Amazingly, there's no official statistics on this recorded by the US . The only figures available are those collated by various independent groups.

It is rather surprising that there is no official data in the US. How can ou improve something you don't even measure?

In the UK it's also worth noting that every police shooting results in a full IPCC investigation and enhanced inquest where there'll be a jury and 'proactive investigation' into the matter (as well as the IPCC investigation).

Independent said:

The Home Office notes that the statistics do not include so-called “animal destruction”, accidental discharge of guns, and – intriguingly – the shooting out of car tyres in police chases.

I've never heard of tyres being shot out on moving vehicles, 'chases', only when they're static using specific rounds to deflate tyres which aren't going to bounce up and hit someone).

[rscott]

La Liga said:

rscott said:

gruffalo said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-p...

Just seen this, I would be very interested to see the stats for us police.

Amazingly, there's no official statistics on this recorded by the US . The only figures available are those collated by various independent groups.

It is rather surprising that there is no official data in the US. How can ou improve something you don't even measure?

In the UK it's also worth noting that every police shooting results in a full IPCC investigation and enhanced inquest where there'll be a jury and 'proactive investigation' into the matter (as well as the IPCC investigation).

Independent said:

The Home Office notes that the statistics do not include so-called “animal destruction”, accidental discharge of guns, and – intriguingly – the shooting out of car tyres in police chases.

I've never heard of tyres being shot out on moving vehicles, 'chases', only when they're static using specific rounds to deflate tyres which aren't going to bounce up and hit someone).

Quite a few US police shootings are investigated by the self same police department which employs the officer in question.

How about shooting a 107 year old 32 times after first using tear gas and a stun grenade? https://photographyisnotacrime.com/2016/07/29/arka... .

Or that Chigaco has paid out over $18 million in settlements so far this year for police shootings - http://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/aldermen-sign... . Including $3.75 million for shooting an unarmed man - police reports said they were fired upon yet the victim was unarmed..