Shots fired in Munich shopping centre?
Discussion
Rogue86 said:
An MP7 might look fancier than an MP5 but in reality the only difference is the terminology - one is a Personal Defence Weapon (PDW) and the other a dated Sub-Machine Gun (SMG). Both are chambered for 9mm and both have an effective range of around 200m - so the difference in using optics and iron-sights is negligible. The MP7 has a higher rate of fire at full auto (by 150 rounds/min) but for Police use that's not a huge advantage.
4.6mm high penetration designed to counter body armour, not 9mm, so actually much more useful for a terrorist response. And using a red dot sight would generally be more effective in terms of speed of acquisition and snap accuracy than iron sights. Training helps too.Key point was and still is that having universally armed police in Germany vs. the UK situation is effectively not that different as for any scenario like this you will still end up falling back on the specialist units turning up. So the 'arm the police' argument some were making earlier is basically meaningless.
So it was one gunman with a 9mm Glock and 300 rounds.
Did he have a licence? No.
Prosecutor says it was a 'typical rampage shooting' (hope not too typical!).
Gunman has a book in his room on 'rampage shootings' - who published this then, I'd like a copy!
Police say intensive search shows no links to IS. 'Intensive' in fewer than 24 hours?
Which school/education did he receive? Refusing to say. Why?
Apparently he was 18.
Receiving phychiatric help and just been receiving medication for depression. Peter Hitchens will be onto that then. I don't blame him - this is one area that is not being discussed.
Did he have a licence? No.
Prosecutor says it was a 'typical rampage shooting' (hope not too typical!).
Gunman has a book in his room on 'rampage shootings' - who published this then, I'd like a copy!
Police say intensive search shows no links to IS. 'Intensive' in fewer than 24 hours?
Which school/education did he receive? Refusing to say. Why?
Apparently he was 18.
Receiving phychiatric help and just been receiving medication for depression. Peter Hitchens will be onto that then. I don't blame him - this is one area that is not being discussed.
Jonesy23 said:
dandarez said:
Gunman has a book in his room on 'rampage shootings' - who published this then, I'd like a copy!
"Amok im Kopf : Warum Schüler töten" by Peter Langman. You can buy it on Amazon if that's how your tastes run.
Not my field of publishing expertise to be honest. Pity, I could have been called as a witness 'expert' LOL.
Ignore the humour. Nothing funny about all this.
Jonesy23 said:
4.6mm high penetration designed to counter body armour, not 9mm, so actually much more useful for a terrorist response. And using a red dot sight would generally be more effective in terms of speed of acquisition and snap accuracy than iron sights. Training helps too.
Key point was and still is that having universally armed police in Germany vs. the UK situation is effectively not that different as for any scenario like this you will still end up falling back on the specialist units turning up. So the 'arm the police' argument some were making earlier is basically meaningless.
I spent nine years as an AFO. I was and still am opposed to universal arming of Police. However, it's getting close to the time when it needs to be looked at again. Key point was and still is that having universally armed police in Germany vs. the UK situation is effectively not that different as for any scenario like this you will still end up falling back on the specialist units turning up. So the 'arm the police' argument some were making earlier is basically meaningless.
Armed Police didn't stop the initial Nice attack. But they did bring it to an end. In the UK that would've been unarmed Police facing a man with a truck full of firearms and no means of stopping the vehicle. Multiple rounds into the can stopped him before he could go further.
The sad thing is about that 'rampage killing' book is the kid obviously didn't read as intended. Checking it out it's not some salacious history of slaughter, its actually written by an American psychologist about school killings and covers the who, the why, and also lots about how to stop people carrying them out in the first place.
So not really the sort of thing to use as an inspiration though it does sound like this was planned in some form for quite a while.
So not really the sort of thing to use as an inspiration though it does sound like this was planned in some form for quite a while.
Jonesy23 said:
Key point was and still is that having universally armed police in Germany vs. the UK situation is effectively not that different as for any scenario like this you will still end up falling back on the specialist units turning up. So the 'arm the police' argument some were making earlier is basically meaningless.
Rubbish. Of course a regular armed police office could have stopped this guy. An unarmed one has no chance.Elroy Blue said:
Jonesy23 said:
4.6mm high penetration designed to counter body armour, not 9mm, so actually much more useful for a terrorist response. And using a red dot sight would generally be more effective in terms of speed of acquisition and snap accuracy than iron sights. Training helps too.
Key point was and still is that having universally armed police in Germany vs. the UK situation is effectively not that different as for any scenario like this you will still end up falling back on the specialist units turning up. So the 'arm the police' argument some were making earlier is basically meaningless.
I spent nine years as an AFO. I was and still am opposed to universal arming of Police. However, it's getting close to the time when it needs to be looked at again. Key point was and still is that having universally armed police in Germany vs. the UK situation is effectively not that different as for any scenario like this you will still end up falling back on the specialist units turning up. So the 'arm the police' argument some were making earlier is basically meaningless.
Armed Police didn't stop the initial Nice attack. But they did bring it to an end. In the UK that would've been unarmed Police facing a man with a truck full of firearms and no means of stopping the vehicle. Multiple rounds into the can stopped him before he could go further.
Dixon was long gone, but I don't think I ever expected a bobby to one day look more like the paramilitary. I think the other worry today is the utter shutdown and panic that one lone single nutter can cause. Is there a better way to handle it, I have no idea.
What have we to look forward to ...this probably. Sad.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/07/17/02/362CE...
Transcript shows he complained about being bullied for 7 years "and now I have to shoot you."
The guys shooting video call him a f
king Turk, a fking foreigner. He shouts "I'm German!!"
Did this happen prior to the shooting? Why arw they aggravating him further. It's not exactly the best time for racial slurs!
The picture being gathered, yet again, is of a mentally unstable person having easy access to weapons.
The guys shooting video call him a f
king Turk, a fking foreigner. He shouts "I'm German!!"Did this happen prior to the shooting? Why arw they aggravating him further. It's not exactly the best time for racial slurs!
The picture being gathered, yet again, is of a mentally unstable person having easy access to weapons.
Countdown said:
Is a "sporting rifle" one where there's a 50:50 chance of the bullet firing backwards?
I'm stealing that.Outside of the remit of this thread but I used to be a regular on an American body building forum (I was there under false pretences!).
There were many decent people on there including an absolutely lovely bloke who always had time to help new people out, was compassionate, understanding, balanced and very Christian. I don't do religion myself but he was never pushy and we had many great discussions, I became quite friendly with him over the course of a couple of years.
One day he posted a picture of his very attractive wife posing with a dead Bear, a huge dead Bear which she had her arm around. She had a big smile on her face and he was bursting with pride about it. They had visited a place where you could set up on a high platform over looking an enclosure with a high powered hunting rifle and then kill a Bear which was wandering about below.
He described this pastime as "Sport" and "Hunting" and supplied endless details about the calibre of the rifle and the thrill of the kill. He was roundly congratulated by just about everybody with lots of back slapping for a "great job" and so on.
I found I just couldn't view the place and the people in the same light after that. Perhaps that's a failing on my part but how such a pastime can ever be construed as sport is beyond me.
I don't know whether our police would want to be armed, or that they're necessarily suited to it. A fair bit of general police work involves a but of gentle wrestling and the danger of a guy being knocked at that point is an issue, as is the fact that the very presence of weapons may aggravate or escalate some situations.
The idea that routinely armed police can effective stop these events is a fallacy. They are too sporadic and too unpredictable. These terrorism attacks occur in countries with armed officers and there's still carnage. The downsides to routine armed outweigh the small chance an armed officer would present / effectively stop a highly improbable event from occurring.
Although the hard-of-thinking like 5ohmustang will never get it, heavily armed populations don't stop mass-shootings as we see in the US.
Although the hard-of-thinking like 5ohmustang will never get it, heavily armed populations don't stop mass-shootings as we see in the US.
g4ry13 said:
What is 'suspected terrorism'? As opposed to what?
I don't fully understand that term.
As opposed to confirmed terrorism. Until you establish the motives and intentions then you don't know whether or not it's terrorism. I don't fully understand that term.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff