Terrorism - how will this all end?
Discussion
I think in one way its good that there is critiquing of some of the issues as self reflection is important for improvement. It also gives an opportunity for views to be cleared and people to be more informed.
Unfortunately you also get people who are unwanting to be informed on both side who would just like to keep shouting with fingers in ears.
Unfortunately you also get people who are unwanting to be informed on both side who would just like to keep shouting with fingers in ears.
NicheMonkey said:
triggerh4ppy said:
you do realise that the islamic councils are there to judge on islamic matters only e.g. islamic marriage laws. Muslims in the UK are happy under UK laws. Yes you still get some t
ts waving the ISIS/Sharia banner, but look into their lives a little deeper and I am certain you find some other personal issues they are dealing with that need resolving.
Can you explain to me what exactly Sharia Law is?? Most islamic scholars are not even able to define Sharia Law, thats why if you look at so called "Sharia countries" they all have different laws and are unable to maintain/govern them within islamic guidelines. Look at places like Turkey who keep religion away from state affairs to a certain extent and you will see a happy medium.
I am worried about ISIS/Terrorists/Mentally Ill people killing each other and us. But I am more afraid of the ignorance/intolerance of parties on both sides.
We have our governments removing the stability from these regions (Saddam/Gaddafi). We then have people being killed and displaced (syria/Iraq/afghanistan) with illegal wars (why is tony now under review for war crimes?). Unfortunately we have "Islamic scholars" taking advantage of the youth over there and teaching intolerance because of them losing people close to them and they every day lives.
It seems to me the attacks have become more desperate and more frequent because of terrorists losing most of their strongholds and now panicking.
More muslims are killed by these terrorists than non-muslims... every attacker so far in the west has had links to depression/drug abuse/mental health issues.
Living in the UK as a muslim I am afraid of people like you... not "muslims", not "terrorists" but people with mental health issues/drug abuse issues and the general intolerant of anything, willing to spout a load of uninformed nonsense trying to get people to agree with his views... bit like Anjem Choudary et al
As a British Muslim, I can echo your comments ref Anjem Choudry ie these threads have some extreme views on what we should do with "them" but no Muslims in sight. ts waving the ISIS/Sharia banner, but look into their lives a little deeper and I am certain you find some other personal issues they are dealing with that need resolving.Can you explain to me what exactly Sharia Law is?? Most islamic scholars are not even able to define Sharia Law, thats why if you look at so called "Sharia countries" they all have different laws and are unable to maintain/govern them within islamic guidelines. Look at places like Turkey who keep religion away from state affairs to a certain extent and you will see a happy medium.
I am worried about ISIS/Terrorists/Mentally Ill people killing each other and us. But I am more afraid of the ignorance/intolerance of parties on both sides.
We have our governments removing the stability from these regions (Saddam/Gaddafi). We then have people being killed and displaced (syria/Iraq/afghanistan) with illegal wars (why is tony now under review for war crimes?). Unfortunately we have "Islamic scholars" taking advantage of the youth over there and teaching intolerance because of them losing people close to them and they every day lives.
It seems to me the attacks have become more desperate and more frequent because of terrorists losing most of their strongholds and now panicking.
More muslims are killed by these terrorists than non-muslims... every attacker so far in the west has had links to depression/drug abuse/mental health issues.
Living in the UK as a muslim I am afraid of people like you... not "muslims", not "terrorists" but people with mental health issues/drug abuse issues and the general intolerant of anything, willing to spout a load of uninformed nonsense trying to get people to agree with his views... bit like Anjem Choudary et al
How can you expect any Muslim to post on here when there is so much Muslim bashing and blaming and so much painting us all with one brush? Also some offensive quotes from the media or from people who hate Islam.
To the poster who said 2/3 Muslims wouldn't shop an extremist, that's Bull. I and anyone in my family and circle of friends would have no issues in shopping a extremist to the authorities even if it was another family member!
I now find myself keeping we away from N, P & E because it seems every thread turns into Muslim bashing with some very offensive and Ill informed quotes being quoted. How many Muslims have posted on here some extreme view? How many non Muslims have posted extreme views? And no the views of attackers don't count because they are nutters and non Muslims because of the actions they have chosen.
Obviously Muslim members on here to post their views are in short supply,I think the reason for that is all the negative posts about Muslims. I truly despair at some of the comments made accross all Muslims bashing threads. As a Muslim I'm just at risk at being attacked or having someone I know attacked but because I'm Muslim I must be one of the attackers or an sympathiser of these attackers. It only serves to create more animosity between people and that's the way some of these threads pan out.
None of you Muslim bashers have taken the time to actually speak in depth to a Muslim to see what they think instead you quote some stupid data saying statistically Muslims will do this or statistically they will do that, well that's all Bull.
Why don't you speak to someone and you'll see that 95% of us denounce any attack on anyone, we don't have a problem with gays we can Co exist peacefully and we do our bit to make the UK safer!We went through the same schools as you we we do the same jobs as you. We were taught to be tolerant of Non Islamic practices because we live in a non Islamic country. We were taught not to force our religion on people.
I work in defence as a contractor and I have played my part in the watchkeeper drone project, I have also done my bit in working on missile defence systems that are sold to countries fighting IS. I have also worked on avionics systems for the Israeli military this meant working alongside Jewish colleagues and never once was I made to feel like a terrorist or sympathiser. Most of these roles required enhanced security checks on my background which included family members. My family and friends are all extremely proud of the work I do, as am I. I'm currently working at Defence company that is directly affecting IS with the products it makes.
I have 2 cousins who are in the forces (both RAF) they don't shout about it and I have never had to until this point.
What I'm saying is if you actually speak to a British Muslim you'll find we are involved in the fight against terrorism one way or another. Standing up and denouncing stuff is difficult when there is so much negativity in the air,people naturally avoid confrontation even Muslims!
To all the posters who post balanced views stating we shouldn't all be painted with the same brush, Thank you. To all the bashers I implore you to speak to UK Muslims face to face to see what they really think about these so called Muslims from the so called Islamic State. Next time your in the kebab house or in the back of a taxi just ask them what your thoughts are and I think you'll be surprised at what you find.
Great post. Hopefully the people posting rubbish on here will take your advice and speak to a Muslim rather then spout the same nonsense.
I'm just waiting for the black swan event. The law of unintended consequences will play out at some point now I think. There are too many big question marks in social, political and economic circles.
I just hope that sense prevails. There is the risk of facist left/right extremes taking advantage in the near to mid term future
I just hope that sense prevails. There is the risk of facist left/right extremes taking advantage in the near to mid term future
NicheMonkey said:
As a British Muslim, I can echo your comments ref Anjem Choudry ie these threads have some extreme views on what we should do with "them" but no Muslims in sight.
How can you expect any Muslim to post on here when there is so much Muslim bashing and blaming and so much painting us all with one brush? Also some offensive quotes from the media or from people who hate Islam.
To the poster who said 2/3 Muslims wouldn't shop an extremist, that's Bull. I and anyone in my family and circle of friends would have no issues in shopping a extremist to the authorities even if it was another family member!
I now find myself keeping we away from N, P & E because it seems every thread turns into Muslim bashing with some very offensive and Ill informed quotes being quoted. How many Muslims have posted on here some extreme view? How many non Muslims have posted extreme views? And no the views of attackers don't count because they are nutters and non Muslims because of the actions they have chosen.
Obviously Muslim members on here to post their views are in short supply,I think the reason for that is all the negative posts about Muslims. I truly despair at some of the comments made accross all Muslims bashing threads. As a Muslim I'm just at risk at being attacked or having someone I know attacked but because I'm Muslim I must be one of the attackers or an sympathiser of these attackers. It only serves to create more animosity between people and that's the way some of these threads pan out.
None of you Muslim bashers have taken the time to actually speak in depth to a Muslim to see what they think instead you quote some stupid data saying statistically Muslims will do this or statistically they will do that, well that's all Bull.
Why don't you speak to someone and you'll see that 95% of us denounce any attack on anyone, we don't have a problem with gays we can Co exist peacefully and we do our bit to make the UK safer!We went through the same schools as you we we do the same jobs as you. We were taught to be tolerant of Non Islamic practices because we live in a non Islamic country. We were taught not to force our religion on people.
I work in defence as a contractor and I have played my part in the watchkeeper drone project, I have also done my bit in working on missile defence systems that are sold to countries fighting IS. I have also worked on avionics systems for the Israeli military this meant working alongside Jewish colleagues and never once was I made to feel like a terrorist or sympathiser. Most of these roles required enhanced security checks on my background which included family members. My family and friends are all extremely proud of the work I do, as am I. I'm currently working at Defence company that is directly affecting IS with the products it makes.
I have 2 cousins who are in the forces (both RAF) they don't shout about it and I have never had to until this point.
What I'm saying is if you actually speak to a British Muslim you'll find we are involved in the fight against terrorism one way or another. Standing up and denouncing stuff is difficult when there is so much negativity in the air,people naturally avoid confrontation even Muslims!
To all the posters who post balanced views stating we shouldn't all be painted with the same brush, Thank you. To all the bashers I implore you to speak to UK Muslims face to face to see what they really think about these so called Muslims from the so called Islamic State. Next time your in the kebab house or in the back of a taxi just ask them what your thoughts are and I think you'll be surprised at what you find.
What is your view on the ongoing eu fostered migration crisis?How can you expect any Muslim to post on here when there is so much Muslim bashing and blaming and so much painting us all with one brush? Also some offensive quotes from the media or from people who hate Islam.
To the poster who said 2/3 Muslims wouldn't shop an extremist, that's Bull. I and anyone in my family and circle of friends would have no issues in shopping a extremist to the authorities even if it was another family member!
I now find myself keeping we away from N, P & E because it seems every thread turns into Muslim bashing with some very offensive and Ill informed quotes being quoted. How many Muslims have posted on here some extreme view? How many non Muslims have posted extreme views? And no the views of attackers don't count because they are nutters and non Muslims because of the actions they have chosen.
Obviously Muslim members on here to post their views are in short supply,I think the reason for that is all the negative posts about Muslims. I truly despair at some of the comments made accross all Muslims bashing threads. As a Muslim I'm just at risk at being attacked or having someone I know attacked but because I'm Muslim I must be one of the attackers or an sympathiser of these attackers. It only serves to create more animosity between people and that's the way some of these threads pan out.
None of you Muslim bashers have taken the time to actually speak in depth to a Muslim to see what they think instead you quote some stupid data saying statistically Muslims will do this or statistically they will do that, well that's all Bull.
Why don't you speak to someone and you'll see that 95% of us denounce any attack on anyone, we don't have a problem with gays we can Co exist peacefully and we do our bit to make the UK safer!We went through the same schools as you we we do the same jobs as you. We were taught to be tolerant of Non Islamic practices because we live in a non Islamic country. We were taught not to force our religion on people.
I work in defence as a contractor and I have played my part in the watchkeeper drone project, I have also done my bit in working on missile defence systems that are sold to countries fighting IS. I have also worked on avionics systems for the Israeli military this meant working alongside Jewish colleagues and never once was I made to feel like a terrorist or sympathiser. Most of these roles required enhanced security checks on my background which included family members. My family and friends are all extremely proud of the work I do, as am I. I'm currently working at Defence company that is directly affecting IS with the products it makes.
I have 2 cousins who are in the forces (both RAF) they don't shout about it and I have never had to until this point.
What I'm saying is if you actually speak to a British Muslim you'll find we are involved in the fight against terrorism one way or another. Standing up and denouncing stuff is difficult when there is so much negativity in the air,people naturally avoid confrontation even Muslims!
To all the posters who post balanced views stating we shouldn't all be painted with the same brush, Thank you. To all the bashers I implore you to speak to UK Muslims face to face to see what they really think about these so called Muslims from the so called Islamic State. Next time your in the kebab house or in the back of a taxi just ask them what your thoughts are and I think you'll be surprised at what you find.
Almost posted in the 'terrorism in perspective' thread, but feels more appropriate here.
My biggest fear isn't a localised terrorist event. It's (for lack of a better description ) a 'hiroshima' moment. An event so cataclysmic it alters the path of history.
Eventually the 'turn to glass' lunatics will get near a big red button with enough support to actually do it. My guess would be when the oil starts to run out and the region ceases to be useful.
I hope I'm wrong and the whole ISIS movement loses momentum when people see a sustained period of fighting without any significant gains.
My biggest fear isn't a localised terrorist event. It's (for lack of a better description ) a 'hiroshima' moment. An event so cataclysmic it alters the path of history.
Eventually the 'turn to glass' lunatics will get near a big red button with enough support to actually do it. My guess would be when the oil starts to run out and the region ceases to be useful.
I hope I'm wrong and the whole ISIS movement loses momentum when people see a sustained period of fighting without any significant gains.
All that jazz said:
NicheMonkey said:
We were taught to be tolerant of Non Islamic practices because we live in a non Islamic country. We were taught not to force our religion on people.
It's a pity that neither have ever been put into practice and probably never will.
Mr Whippy said:
I know it's likely just wording, but surely the default should be taught to be tolerant generally, and not specifically in response to an external environmental factor...?
To expand on my comment, this is the view coming from Muslim eyes where a lot of the stuff you may come across is banned or disapproved of according to Islam. So for example I don't drink alcohol but I don't mind having to go in bargain booze to buy some milk. Another example is Pork which is forbidden but that don't mean Im not gonna go Asda and get my shopping. It's important for Muslims to be able to Co exist and to to do that they must accept the local traditions whatever they may be, so in the eyes of a Muslim these forbidden things can be seen as an external environmental factor that needs to be tolerated. Obviously being generally tolerant of people's views and beliefs goes without saying. triggerh4ppy said:
Username888 said:
Unlikely to happen:
"Astonishing" two in three British Muslims would NOT give police terror tip-offs
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/659913/two-in-thr...
According to how many people polled? and from where? a spread of demographics/regions? "Astonishing" two in three British Muslims would NOT give police terror tip-offs
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/659913/two-in-thr...
oh wait article doesn't mention that. Wonder why??
Username888 said:
Unlikely to happen:
"Astonishing" two in three British Muslims would NOT give police terror tip-offs
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/659913/two-in-thr...
Not a representative survey according to some. They only questioned Muslims in areas which are at least 20% Muslim - that excluded half the Muslims in the UK, for a start. http://blog.policy.manchester.ac.uk/ethnicity/2016..."Astonishing" two in three British Muslims would NOT give police terror tip-offs
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/659913/two-in-thr...
rscott said:
Not a representative survey according to some. They only questioned Muslims in areas which are at least 20% Muslim - that excluded half the Muslims in the UK, for a start. http://blog.policy.manchester.ac.uk/ethnicity/2016...
Although it would appear that many British born extremists aren't shopped by their friends/families when they toddle off to Syria for a few months for no apparent logical reason.rscott said:
Username888 said:
Unlikely to happen:
"Astonishing" two in three British Muslims would NOT give police terror tip-offs
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/659913/two-in-thr...
Not a representative survey according to some. They only questioned Muslims in areas which are at least 20% Muslim - that excluded half the Muslims in the UK, for a start. http://blog.policy.manchester.ac.uk/ethnicity/2016..."Astonishing" two in three British Muslims would NOT give police terror tip-offs
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/659913/two-in-thr...
Even if it were 1 in 30 it'd still be quite sad
NicheMonkey said:
Mr Whippy said:
I know it's likely just wording, but surely the default should be taught to be tolerant generally, and not specifically in response to an external environmental factor...?
To expand on my comment, this is the view coming from Muslim eyes where a lot of the stuff you may come across is banned or disapproved of according to Islam. So for example I don't drink alcohol but I don't mind having to go in bargain booze to buy some milk. Another example is Pork which is forbidden but that don't mean Im not gonna go Asda and get my shopping. It's important for Muslims to be able to Co exist and to to do that they must accept the local traditions whatever they may be, so in the eyes of a Muslim these forbidden things can be seen as an external environmental factor that needs to be tolerated. Obviously being generally tolerant of people's views and beliefs goes without saying. Why aren't they accepting to begin with?
Does Islam teach intolerance? Or is it just an interpretation that if others don't follow Islam then they are not to be tolerated because they're partaking in forbidden activities?
I'm not even sure if your explanations do most Muslims justice because it's suggesting they need to be taught or changed or exercise effort to be tolerant and to co-exist. I don't believe even that is the case for many Muslims in the UK.
dudleybloke said:
When someone decided to do a sponsored walk for Birmingham dogs home they got assaulted and insulted when in certain areas and the apologists here said they shouldn't have walked through a "Muslim area".
This is a sign of things to come.
Was that the the idiot in a mankini? If so they did us a favour. :grump:This is a sign of things to come.
NicheMonkey said:
As a British Muslim, I can echo your comments ref Anjem Choudry ie these threads have some extreme views on what we should do with "them" but no Muslims in sight.
How can you expect any Muslim to post on here when there is so much Muslim bashing and blaming and so much painting us all with one brush? Also some offensive quotes from the media or from people who hate Islam.
To the poster who said 2/3 Muslims wouldn't shop an extremist, that's Bull. I and anyone in my family and circle of friends would have no issues in shopping a extremist to the authorities even if it was another family member!
I now find myself keeping we away from N, P & E because it seems every thread turns into Muslim bashing with some very offensive and Ill informed quotes being quoted. How many Muslims have posted on here some extreme view? How many non Muslims have posted extreme views? And no the views of attackers don't count because they are nutters and non Muslims because of the actions they have chosen.
Obviously Muslim members on here to post their views are in short supply,I think the reason for that is all the negative posts about Muslims. I truly despair at some of the comments made accross all Muslims bashing threads. As a Muslim I'm just at risk at being attacked or having someone I know attacked but because I'm Muslim I must be one of the attackers or an sympathiser of these attackers. It only serves to create more animosity between people and that's the way some of these threads pan out.
None of you Muslim bashers have taken the time to actually speak in depth to a Muslim to see what they think instead you quote some stupid data saying statistically Muslims will do this or statistically they will do that, well that's all Bull.
Why don't you speak to someone and you'll see that 95% of us denounce any attack on anyone, we don't have a problem with gays we can Co exist peacefully and we do our bit to make the UK safer!We went through the same schools as you we we do the same jobs as you. We were taught to be tolerant of Non Islamic practices because we live in a non Islamic country. We were taught not to force our religion on people.
I work in defence as a contractor and I have played my part in the watchkeeper drone project, I have also done my bit in working on missile defence systems that are sold to countries fighting IS. I have also worked on avionics systems for the Israeli military this meant working alongside Jewish colleagues and never once was I made to feel like a terrorist or sympathiser. Most of these roles required enhanced security checks on my background which included family members. My family and friends are all extremely proud of the work I do, as am I. I'm currently working at Defence company that is directly affecting IS with the products it makes.
I have 2 cousins who are in the forces (both RAF) they don't shout about it and I have never had to until this point.
What I'm saying is if you actually speak to a British Muslim you'll find we are involved in the fight against terrorism one way or another. Standing up and denouncing stuff is difficult when there is so much negativity in the air,people naturally avoid confrontation even Muslims!
To all the posters who post balanced views stating we shouldn't all be painted with the same brush, Thank you. To all the bashers I implore you to speak to UK Muslims face to face to see what they really think about these so called Muslims from the so called Islamic State. Next time your in the kebab house or in the back of a taxi just ask them what your thoughts are and I think you'll be surprised at what you find.
very good post chap - many thanks. The issue however is not as easy as that... if I went to my local kebab shop or 'Indian' restaurant (do see the irony there but IIRC a lot of 'Indian' restaurants are in fact Pakistani?) and asked them their opinion on various outrages I could see me getting a punch on the nose (quite right too - I would imagine that it's akin to going to a church fete and asking... "soooooo what do you think about all those kiddie fiddling priests then? Ain't the pope a knobber for not throwing them out?"). How can you expect any Muslim to post on here when there is so much Muslim bashing and blaming and so much painting us all with one brush? Also some offensive quotes from the media or from people who hate Islam.
To the poster who said 2/3 Muslims wouldn't shop an extremist, that's Bull. I and anyone in my family and circle of friends would have no issues in shopping a extremist to the authorities even if it was another family member!
I now find myself keeping we away from N, P & E because it seems every thread turns into Muslim bashing with some very offensive and Ill informed quotes being quoted. How many Muslims have posted on here some extreme view? How many non Muslims have posted extreme views? And no the views of attackers don't count because they are nutters and non Muslims because of the actions they have chosen.
Obviously Muslim members on here to post their views are in short supply,I think the reason for that is all the negative posts about Muslims. I truly despair at some of the comments made accross all Muslims bashing threads. As a Muslim I'm just at risk at being attacked or having someone I know attacked but because I'm Muslim I must be one of the attackers or an sympathiser of these attackers. It only serves to create more animosity between people and that's the way some of these threads pan out.
None of you Muslim bashers have taken the time to actually speak in depth to a Muslim to see what they think instead you quote some stupid data saying statistically Muslims will do this or statistically they will do that, well that's all Bull.
Why don't you speak to someone and you'll see that 95% of us denounce any attack on anyone, we don't have a problem with gays we can Co exist peacefully and we do our bit to make the UK safer!We went through the same schools as you we we do the same jobs as you. We were taught to be tolerant of Non Islamic practices because we live in a non Islamic country. We were taught not to force our religion on people.
I work in defence as a contractor and I have played my part in the watchkeeper drone project, I have also done my bit in working on missile defence systems that are sold to countries fighting IS. I have also worked on avionics systems for the Israeli military this meant working alongside Jewish colleagues and never once was I made to feel like a terrorist or sympathiser. Most of these roles required enhanced security checks on my background which included family members. My family and friends are all extremely proud of the work I do, as am I. I'm currently working at Defence company that is directly affecting IS with the products it makes.
I have 2 cousins who are in the forces (both RAF) they don't shout about it and I have never had to until this point.
What I'm saying is if you actually speak to a British Muslim you'll find we are involved in the fight against terrorism one way or another. Standing up and denouncing stuff is difficult when there is so much negativity in the air,people naturally avoid confrontation even Muslims!
To all the posters who post balanced views stating we shouldn't all be painted with the same brush, Thank you. To all the bashers I implore you to speak to UK Muslims face to face to see what they really think about these so called Muslims from the so called Islamic State. Next time your in the kebab house or in the back of a taxi just ask them what your thoughts are and I think you'll be surprised at what you find.
More broadly speaking what you are calling for (and in that you share common ground with most of PH I suspect) is more integration and less communities keeping to themselves. Will that ever happen though? In this current climate of fear and mistrust (not at all helped by the MSM) I'm not sure - that being said if a Muslim family moved next door and invited me over to celebrate the end of Ramadan or some other Islam specific festival, I'd be there no issues at all
Mr Whippy said:
It's just worrying that you keep using the words 'must accept'
Why aren't they accepting to begin with?
Does Islam teach intolerance? Or is it just an interpretation that if others don't follow Islam then they are not to be tolerated because they're partaking in forbidden activities?
I'm not even sure if your explanations do most Muslims justice because it's suggesting they need to be taught or changed or exercise effort to be tolerant and to co-exist. I don't believe even that is the case for many Muslims in the UK.
Do you just want to argue with me? I've tried to give my honest opinion about what Muslims can do to integrate better. I've integrated and so have all my family and friends, obviously this isn't the case for everyone and my examples were just that. I did say that tolerating people's views and beliefs goes without saying but you didnt pick up on that. Why aren't they accepting to begin with?
Does Islam teach intolerance? Or is it just an interpretation that if others don't follow Islam then they are not to be tolerated because they're partaking in forbidden activities?
I'm not even sure if your explanations do most Muslims justice because it's suggesting they need to be taught or changed or exercise effort to be tolerant and to co-exist. I don't believe even that is the case for many Muslims in the UK.
I tried to give an opinion which has been lacking on these threads and it's people like you who make me wish I didn't because yet again words are being misrepresented and twisted. Pick away at my post as much as you like, that is my view a tolerant one. Make it negative if you want that's your view.
I'm out. Peace and love to all.
All that jazz said:
NicheMonkey said:
We were taught to be tolerant of Non Islamic practices because we live in a non Islamic country. We were taught not to force our religion on people.
It's a pity that neither have ever been put into practice and probably never will.
Whilst I agree with some of NicheMonkey's sentiments, I do feel that Islam (when taken literally) is completely incompatible with Western culture and values.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff