Terrorism - how will this all end?

Terrorism - how will this all end?

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Discussion

B'stard Child

28,324 posts

245 months

Monday 25th July 2016
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NicheMonkey said:
I'm out. Peace and love to all.
Sorry you are out - Thanks for the perspective - really appreciated it

Four Litre

2,013 posts

191 months

Monday 25th July 2016
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rscott said:
PoleDriver said:
rscott said:
Like I said, parts of Sharia law set out the rules of worship, exactly the same as Canon law does for some Christians. What's the problem with adopting that?

Also, we've allowed Halakha for decades here without any issues. That's the Jewish equivalent of Sharia and covers many of the same topics.
Very true, but Canon law only applies to practising Christians who have made their life-choice, likewise Halaka and the Jews.

The muslims have made it quite clear that they want to force sharia law on everybody, try walking around Brick Lane in the evening with a beer, or a young lady dressed to party!
As I've already said, I don't support Sharia patrols and would expect the police to work with imams to persuade them to stop. They've done so in some areas already.

I'm also not saying everything is perfect within Islam in the UK - but equally not every part is in need of change either.
The use of words like 'expect the police to work with inams' just goes to show how wrong your thinking is. Its not their job to work with anyone breaking the law. Then 'persuade them to stop' WTF. These people are breaking the law, end of. Not only do they break the law but more importantly insult the indigenous people of the country that have given them a massive chance and opportunity in life.





TTwiggy

11,500 posts

203 months

Monday 25th July 2016
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Four Litre said:
The use of words like 'expect the police to work with inams' just goes to show how wrong your thinking is. Its not their job to work with anyone breaking the law. Then 'persuade them to stop' WTF. These people are breaking the law, end of. Not only do they break the law but more importantly insult the indigenous people of the country that have given them a massive chance and opportunity in life.
The police - both as individuals and collectively as an organisation - bend the law every day dependent upon the situation. Dealing with specific communities, where going in like Judge Dredd could cause misunderstandings or tension, can often require special policing. A good example would be the Notting Hill Carnival where a blind eye is largely turned to low-level drug use. Indeed urban police units are very unlikely to arrest someone for small amounts of non-class A drugs as the potential for negative escalation outweighs the arrest.

Ever been stopped for speeding and let off with a talking to? Well that's odd, because you broke the law - end of.

J4CKO

41,287 posts

199 months

Monday 25th July 2016
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Remember that Muslims also have an opinion on the rest of Islam and it isnt a given that they approve, very much like I, as white British dont approve of the actions, habits and opinions of all my countrymen.

There are big differences between members of the Muslim community, my wifes friend, whilst we were in the car travelling, when passing through an Asian area near where she lived and I mentioned the community centre and asked whether she had ever been there, she said with a slightly disgusted tone "No, its full of P**** ", I replied "Er, Yaz, hate to break this to you" and she said, "Yeah, I am a P***, but that place is full of, you know P*** P****",

She explained that they are much more hard line/devout followers of Islam, less westernised and a lot did not even speak English.

My mate at work is Muslim and lives in a Muslim area and is very scathing of a lot of his neighbours, he says they are pretend Muslims, all about the prayers and being seen to be devout but up to all sorts and ready to stab you in the back for a few quid, completely missing what most of Islam is about.

I have other Muslim friends, my trainee from years ago, a fast talking smartarse of the highest order but a top lad, into his motors, has had all sorts, from hard work, he is at the top of his trade in IT and doing very well.


So, dont see it as us vs them, it is so pointless, divisive and usually based on some trumped up mental image of photofit of some Islamic terrorist, most just get on with life like the rest of us, dont alienate those to try and hit ISIS, the mentally ill nutcases etc.

It isnt u vs the Muslims, its the law abiding, decent folk against those who arent.






AJL308

6,390 posts

155 months

Monday 25th July 2016
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Nom de ploom said:
One thing we must not do is become ambivalant or numbed to the next terror strike, and the next one...

the fact that it is being reported increasingly and it feels like a weekly occurence we mustn't normalise it.

I wonder what ISIS actually want. Would or should we be at the point of offering diplomacy? discussions rather than drone strikes and suicide bombers....
They want to Islamify the world. Plain and simple.

mikemike08

1,609 posts

93 months

Monday 25th July 2016
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What is the difference between a drunk driver that takes out a family on a head on and a islamic terrorist that blows himself up and kills 2 people ? What is the difference between people getting shot at house party and people getting shot in the street by terrorirst? Is getting blown up more terrorising than getting stabbed and killed by thieves ?

What is the difference between muslims not grassing up people that they think may help terrorist and the irish people and the ira ?



GetCarter

29,358 posts

278 months

Monday 25th July 2016
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O/P

It won't. It's the new Zeitgeist. Stuck with it now.

TTwiggy

11,500 posts

203 months

Monday 25th July 2016
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AJL308 said:
They want to Islamify the world. Plain and simple.
It's far from plain and simple. They have no more desire to Islamify the world than the IRA did for Catholicising all of Ireland. The religion is a powerful and useful rallying tool. It helps them recruit, and it helps them to focus the minds of their soldiers. But their aims are geopolitical and come down to power - as most things do.

rscott

14,691 posts

190 months

Monday 25th July 2016
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Four Litre said:
The use of words like 'expect the police to work with inams' just goes to show how wrong your thinking is. Its not their job to work with anyone breaking the law. Then 'persuade them to stop' WTF. These people are breaking the law, end of. Not only do they break the law but more importantly insult the indigenous people of the country that have given them a massive chance and opportunity in life.
If the Imans and other leaders of the Muslim community make it clear that these patrols are unacceptable, then that may well discourage the small minority from carrying them out.

Surely it makes sense to work with community leaders on this? The police already have a lot of outreach projects to work with different parts of the community to discourage illegal activities.

AJL308

6,390 posts

155 months

Monday 25th July 2016
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NicheMonkey said:
As a British Muslim, I can echo your comments ref Anjem Choudry ie these threads have some extreme views on what we should do with "them" but no Muslims in sight.

How can you expect any Muslim to post on here when there is so much Muslim bashing and blaming and so much painting us all with one brush? Also some offensive quotes from the media or from people who hate Islam.

To the poster who said 2/3 Muslims wouldn't shop an extremist, that's Bull. I and anyone in my family and circle of friends would have no issues in shopping a extremist to the authorities even if it was another family member!

I now find myself keeping we away from N, P & E because it seems every thread turns into Muslim bashing with some very offensive and Ill informed quotes being quoted. How many Muslims have posted on here some extreme view? How many non Muslims have posted extreme views? And no the views of attackers don't count because they are nutters and non Muslims because of the actions they have chosen.

Obviously Muslim members on here to post their views are in short supply,I think the reason for that is all the negative posts about Muslims. I truly despair at some of the comments made accross all Muslims bashing threads. As a Muslim I'm just at risk at being attacked or having someone I know attacked but because I'm Muslim I must be one of the attackers or an sympathiser of these attackers. It only serves to create more animosity between people and that's the way some of these threads pan out.

None of you Muslim bashers have taken the time to actually speak in depth to a Muslim to see what they think instead you quote some stupid data saying statistically Muslims will do this or statistically they will do that, well that's all Bull.

Why don't you speak to someone and you'll see that 95% of us denounce any attack on anyone, we don't have a problem with gays we can Co exist peacefully and we do our bit to make the UK safer!We went through the same schools as you we we do the same jobs as you. We were taught to be tolerant of Non Islamic practices because we live in a non Islamic country. We were taught not to force our religion on people.
I work in defence as a contractor and I have played my part in the watchkeeper drone project, I have also done my bit in working on missile defence systems that are sold to countries fighting IS. I have also worked on avionics systems for the Israeli military this meant working alongside Jewish colleagues and never once was I made to feel like a terrorist or sympathiser. Most of these roles required enhanced security checks on my background which included family members. My family and friends are all extremely proud of the work I do, as am I. I'm currently working at Defence company that is directly affecting IS with the products it makes.

I have 2 cousins who are in the forces (both RAF) they don't shout about it and I have never had to until this point.

What I'm saying is if you actually speak to a British Muslim you'll find we are involved in the fight against terrorism one way or another. Standing up and denouncing stuff is difficult when there is so much negativity in the air,people naturally avoid confrontation even Muslims!

To all the posters who post balanced views stating we shouldn't all be painted with the same brush, Thank you. To all the bashers I implore you to speak to UK Muslims face to face to see what they really think about these so called Muslims from the so called Islamic State. Next time your in the kebab house or in the back of a taxi just ask them what your thoughts are and I think you'll be surprised at what you find.
For me it's the whole religion thing though. This is Britain in 2016, not Arabia in the 1400's. Religion is an outdated and largely irrelevant concept to the majority of people of this country. Most developed countries, certainly most of Western Europe, are going the same way. In fact, many, many people, my self included, see religion not just as irrelevant but irrational. The idea that there is some great Sky Fairy up there running the whole show and rewarding the virtuous with eternal life or lots of virgins is, quite frankly, ridiculous in the extreme.

God does not exist. Allah does not exist. Moses did not part the red sea and Noah didn't build a fk-off big boat filled with every creature on earth because his Sky Fairy flooded the place because he had anger management issues! It is just so much childish, scare mongering, rubbish that people used to keep the plebs in check hundreds of years ago.

The fact that some deluded relgionists use their irrational beliefs to enforce their pathetic belief system onto everyone else makes it even more sad. I mean they aren't doing it because they have actual, real-world issues to resolve. They are doing it in the name of something which doesn't even exist apart from in their own delusional minds. Religion.

If you follow a religion you are in part responsible for those who use it for unspeakable deeds. If you want to believe in something that quite clearly isn't true then you have to bear some responsibility when even more irrationally minded followers of it decide to use it for clearly irrational purposes.

AJL308

6,390 posts

155 months

Monday 25th July 2016
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Challo said:
clapclapclap

Great post. Hopefully the people posting rubbish on here will take your advice and speak to a Muslim rather then spout the same nonsense.
Why? Why should I, a person who holds no religious beliefs, go out of my way to speak to someone who holds a view that I think is utterly irrational?

I have talked to religionists before and I have never been even a little bit convinced as to the need for religion and have never been convinced that it is anything other than total lunacy. It is simply completely irrelevant in 2016 in an advanced western society and history is proving such every day.

rscott

14,691 posts

190 months

Monday 25th July 2016
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AJL308 said:
For me it's the whole religion thing though. This is Britain in 2016, not Arabia in the 1400's. Religion is an outdated and largely irrelevant concept to the majority of people of this country. Most developed countries, certainly most of Western Europe, are going the same way. In fact, many, many people, my self included, see religion not just as irrelevant but irrational. The idea that there is some great Sky Fairy up there running the whole show and rewarding the virtuous with eternal life or lots of virgins is, quite frankly, ridiculous in the extreme.

God does not exist. Allah does not exist. Moses did not part the red sea and Noah didn't build a fk-off big boat filled with every creature on earth because his Sky Fairy flooded the place because he had anger management issues! It is just so much childish, scare mongering, rubbish that people used to keep the plebs in check hundreds of years ago.

The fact that some deluded relgionists use their irrational beliefs to enforce their pathetic belief system onto everyone else makes it even more sad. I mean they aren't doing it because they have actual, real-world issues to resolve. They are doing it in the name of something which doesn't even exist apart from in their own delusional minds. Religion.

If you follow a religion you are in part responsible for those who use it for unspeakable deeds. If you want to believe in something that quite clearly isn't true then you have to bear some responsibility when even more irrationally minded followers of it decide to use it for clearly irrational purposes.
So all Christians are as responsible for those killed by extremist Christian anti-abortionists as all Muslims are for those killed by IS? Strange how that point is never made on here.

marshalla

15,902 posts

200 months

Monday 25th July 2016
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AJL308 said:
Why? Why should I, a person who holds no religious beliefs, go out of my way to speak to someone who holds a view that I think is utterly irrational?

I have talked to religionists before and I have never been even a little bit convinced as to the need for religion and have never been convinced that it is anything other than total lunacy. It is simply completely irrelevant in 2016 in an advanced western society and history is proving such every day.
Fundamentalist Dawkinsite, huh?

AJL308

6,390 posts

155 months

Monday 25th July 2016
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NicheMonkey said:
To expand on my comment, this is the view coming from Muslim eyes where a lot of the stuff you may come across is banned or disapproved of according to Islam. So for example I don't drink alcohol but I don't mind having to go in bargain booze to buy some milk. Another example is Pork which is forbidden but that don't mean Im not gonna go Asda and get my shopping. It's important for Muslims to be able to Co exist and to to do that they must accept the local traditions whatever they may be, so in the eyes of a Muslim these forbidden things can be seen as an external environmental factor that needs to be tolerated. Obviously being generally tolerant of people's views and beliefs goes without saying.
The pork thing is one of the irrational things I was getting at in my previous post. Why pork? There is no reason for it. I can kind of see the reasoning behind alcohol but not pork. It's irrational. Religion is irrational.



GetCarter

29,358 posts

278 months

Monday 25th July 2016
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AJL308 said:
stuff
Mate. You can't argue with these people (of whatever religion). They are full of blind faith. You'll never win any sort of logical argument. I'd let it go and go have a beer. smile

rscott

14,691 posts

190 months

Monday 25th July 2016
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AJL308 said:
The pork thing is one of the irrational things I was getting at in my previous post. Why pork? There is no reason for it. I can kind of see the reasoning behind alcohol but not pork. It's irrational. Religion is irrational.
Wikipedia is your friend - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_restrict... - references the quotes from various religious texts which forbid pork.

Or for Hindus - https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_cow

BigLion

Original Poster:

1,497 posts

98 months

Monday 25th July 2016
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rscott said:
AJL308 said:
The pork thing is one of the irrational things I was getting at in my previous post. Why pork? There is no reason for it. I can kind of see the reasoning behind alcohol but not pork. It's irrational. Religion is irrational.
Wikipedia is your friend - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_restrict... - references the quotes from various religious texts which forbid pork.

Or for Hindus - https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_cow
Pork is viewed as 'filthy meat'.

Rscott - a direct question :

Do you without any hesitation, wish that all Muslims terrorists who plan to attack civilians, whether in ISIS or otherwise, are the absolute scum of the earth and the world would be a better place if USA drones killed them all ?


AJL308

6,390 posts

155 months

Monday 25th July 2016
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rscott said:
So all Christians are as responsible for those killed by extremist Christian anti-abortionists as all Muslims are for those killed by IS? Strange how that point is never made on here.
Yes. Like I said; religion is irrational. If you adhere to a religion then you support it and further its aims. If some of its followers use violence in its name then everyone who follows it is partly responsible for perpetuating its existence. If more and more people made the decision not to perpetuate irrational myths and fairy stories then religion would eventually die out and people wouldn't be doing the unspeakable in its name.

AJL308

6,390 posts

155 months

Monday 25th July 2016
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GetCarter said:
AJL308 said:
stuff
Mate. You can't argue with these people (of whatever religion). They are full of blind faith. You'll never win any sort of logical argument. I'd let it go and go have a beer. smile
The thing is though that the anti-religion argument is being won. All be it slowly.

Look at Europe and most other developed places over the past couple of hundred years. Lots less religion and religious influence than there was.

del mar

2,838 posts

198 months

Monday 25th July 2016
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AJL308 said:
The pork thing is one of the irrational things I was getting at in my previous post. Why pork? There is no reason for it. I can kind of see the reasoning behind alcohol but not pork. It's irrational. Religion is irrational.
Because a man 1500 years ago who knew nothing about science or health matters said it was dirty ! The fact that we have since demonstrated that it isint can't over ride what was said 1500 years ago !????

How any sane person can live their life based on things said when we thought the world was flat is beyond me.