Terrorism - how will this all end?
Discussion
If you take a thousand Muslims let's say there's 1 extremist, he probably has 5 mates who agree with him and look up to him, they may have a dozen or so friends each who look up to them but don't say it so loudly. They sound out their thoughts at the mosque and a lot nod in agreement but aren't really sure if they agree but don't speak up against. And the other 800 or so Muslims are as horrified as the rest of us at the atrocities going on.
So in answer to the question it can only stop when the 800 peaceful Muslims speak up loud enough that the 199 that lean towards extremism move towards them and denounce the suicidal nutcase.
Until then we are doomed we're doomed.
So in answer to the question it can only stop when the 800 peaceful Muslims speak up loud enough that the 199 that lean towards extremism move towards them and denounce the suicidal nutcase.
Until then we are doomed we're doomed.
ikarl said:
I'm not smart enough (or stupid enough some might say) to imagine the world stepping back from where we are.
A bit over dramatic, but it feels the whole planet is standing at the precipice of absolute disaster.
24hr continuous news and everyone's ability to 'shoot their own news' from their phones doesn't help me sleep easy at night.
A warm mug of milk and some whale music and you'll be off like a light, but just watch for that bogeyman under your bed. A bit over dramatic, but it feels the whole planet is standing at the precipice of absolute disaster.
24hr continuous news and everyone's ability to 'shoot their own news' from their phones doesn't help me sleep easy at night.
Seriously though, the world's probably no more dangerous than it was 30 or 40 years ago, and certainly a lot safer than it was 75 years ago. As you alluded to in your post, it's all about perception.
tight fart said:
If you take a thousand Muslims let's say there's 1 extremist, he probably has 5 mates who agree with him and look up to him, they may have a dozen or so friends each who look up to them but don't say it so loudly. They sound out their thoughts at the mosque and a lot nod in agreement but aren't really sure if they agree but don't speak up against. And the other 800 or so Muslims are as horrified as the rest of us at the atrocities going on.
So in answer to the question it can only stop when the 800 peaceful Muslims speak up loud enough that the 199 that lean towards extremism move towards them and denounce the suicidal nutcase.
Until then we are doomed we're doomed.
And when those 800 Muslims encounter the Islamaphobic attitudes shoeb some of the posts on here and elsewhere which claim Islam is the cause of all the wrongs in the world, then maybe 100 of them will become more sympathetic to the extremist Muslims. So in answer to the question it can only stop when the 800 peaceful Muslims speak up loud enough that the 199 that lean towards extremism move towards them and denounce the suicidal nutcase.
Until then we are doomed we're doomed.
The West needs to make it clear that they support the peaceful ones and they're welcome to remain here ((as long as they comply with our laws) and encourage them to condemn and expose the extremists.
jonah35 said:
cheddar said:
Is it possible that this 'situation' could grow to become so unrelenting that the general public are scared to go about their daily lives? To travel? To holiday? To attend events? To shop in busy areas?
Genuine question
Not yet but eventually yes.Genuine question
jonah35 said:
cheddar said:
Is it possible that this 'situation' could grow to become so unrelenting that the general public are scared to go about their daily lives? To travel? To holiday? To attend events? To shop in busy areas?
Genuine question
Not yet but eventually yes.Genuine question
How old are you two? - Do you remember the bad old days of IRA bombs, abductions, shootings? Back in the 80s and 90s, we had all kinds of protest groups threatening us. I remember the Burton's store I sometimes worked at back in the early 90s being destroyed by an animal rights firebomb. When was the last time you heard of that happening?
cheddar said:
Is it possible that this 'situation' could grow to become so unrelenting that the general public are scared to go about their daily lives? To travel? To holiday? To attend events? To shop in busy areas?
Genuine question
It's already happening :Genuine question
Egypt = basket case.
Tunisia = basket case.
Turkey = rapidly becoming basket case.
That's 3 fairly popular (esp Turkey) tourist destinations wiped off the list.
Trabi601 said:
Really?
How old are you two? - Do you remember the bad old days of IRA bombs, abductions, shootings? Back in the 80s and 90s, we had all kinds of protest groups threatening us. I remember the Burton's store I sometimes worked at back in the early 90s being destroyed by an animal rights firebomb. When was the last time you heard of that happening?
I'm just asking questions Trabi but I don't think you can compare animal rights activists to ISISHow old are you two? - Do you remember the bad old days of IRA bombs, abductions, shootings? Back in the 80s and 90s, we had all kinds of protest groups threatening us. I remember the Burton's store I sometimes worked at back in the early 90s being destroyed by an animal rights firebomb. When was the last time you heard of that happening?
cheddar said:
I'm just asking questions Trabi but I don't think you can compare animal rights activists to ISIS
You can't - but that kind of threat did disrupt life back then.We were on a higher state of alert - thorough checks of shops for possible devices from many different groups, be it IRA, Animal Rights, or anyone else who wanted to raise their profile with a bomb or two. I recall a number of evacuations due to suspected devices.
I feel safer today than I did back then, despite the recent attacks in France and Germany.
tight fart said:
If you take a thousand Muslims let's say there's 1 extremist, he probably has 5 mates who agree with him and look up to him, they may have a dozen or so friends each who look up to them but don't say it so loudly. They sound out their thoughts at the mosque and a lot nod in agreement but aren't really sure if they agree but don't speak up against. And the other 800 or so Muslims are as horrified as the rest of us at the atrocities going on.
So in answer to the question it can only stop when the 800 peaceful Muslims speak up loud enough that the 199 that lean towards extremism move towards them and denounce the suicidal nutcase.
Until then we are doomed we're doomed.
I watched a very interesting program about the ebb and tide between extreme and moderate Islam.So in answer to the question it can only stop when the 800 peaceful Muslims speak up loud enough that the 199 that lean towards extremism move towards them and denounce the suicidal nutcase.
Until then we are doomed we're doomed.
The moderate said that the extremes have been working for over 30 years now to radicalise and that it will take a similar period to reverse the flow. That moderates have started the work but that there are no short cuts.
On the less reliable side, Nostradamus is stated as predicting a 200 year war beginning late 20th century.
Sounds about right to me.
Historically it waxes and wanes.
As long ago as 732 the Arab Muslim army of the Umayyad caliphate got as far north as Tours in France before they were repelled.
The Ottoman Caliphate stormed through the Balkans and laid seige to Vienna in the 16th century.
In between there have been other bursts and there have been periods of stagnation and decline.
Conversely in the 19th century the Ottoman empire was pushed back, and reforms to the way it treated non-Muslim minorities were treated were demanded by the western powers.
Typically Islamism feeds on weak and declining cultures and is repelled by strong and confident ones. IMO Europe needs a serious cultural renewal, to move beyond the post war welfare social democratic welfare state and post-colonial guilt, and rediscover a sense of pride and purpose in order to defeat Islam in the hearts and the minds of Europeans.
Conversely, if the attack in Munich is as some people are speculating a right wing group targeting immigrants or Muslims, then perhaps some Europeans may have found a totally different, and very unpleasant sense of pride and purpose, and the result will be gruesome.
As long ago as 732 the Arab Muslim army of the Umayyad caliphate got as far north as Tours in France before they were repelled.
The Ottoman Caliphate stormed through the Balkans and laid seige to Vienna in the 16th century.
In between there have been other bursts and there have been periods of stagnation and decline.
Conversely in the 19th century the Ottoman empire was pushed back, and reforms to the way it treated non-Muslim minorities were treated were demanded by the western powers.
Typically Islamism feeds on weak and declining cultures and is repelled by strong and confident ones. IMO Europe needs a serious cultural renewal, to move beyond the post war welfare social democratic welfare state and post-colonial guilt, and rediscover a sense of pride and purpose in order to defeat Islam in the hearts and the minds of Europeans.
Conversely, if the attack in Munich is as some people are speculating a right wing group targeting immigrants or Muslims, then perhaps some Europeans may have found a totally different, and very unpleasant sense of pride and purpose, and the result will be gruesome.
Trabi601 said:
Really?
How old are you two? - Do you remember the bad old days of IRA bombs, abductions, shootings? Back in the 80s and 90s, we had all kinds of protest groups threatening us. I remember the Burton's store I sometimes worked at back in the early 90s being destroyed by an animal rights firebomb. When was the last time you heard of that happening?
bit of a difference betwixt IS and the IRA in as much as the IRA didn't go in for suicide attacks. For perception of safety that does make a difference. Back in the 70's you'd look out for suspicious packages etc - now the fHow old are you two? - Do you remember the bad old days of IRA bombs, abductions, shootings? Back in the 80s and 90s, we had all kinds of protest groups threatening us. I remember the Burton's store I sometimes worked at back in the early 90s being destroyed by an animal rights firebomb. When was the last time you heard of that happening?
kers wear the suspicious packages, does make a bit of a differencerscott said:
The West needs to make it clear that they support the peaceful ones and they're welcome to remain here ((as long as they comply with our laws) and encourage them to condemn and expose the extremists.
and the 800 need to shout louder and make themselves know - TBH the meeja really need to stop trying to sow discord and help out here too!jonah35 said:
cheddar said:
Is it possible that this 'situation' could grow to become so unrelenting that the general public are scared to go about their daily lives? To travel? To holiday? To attend events? To shop in busy areas?
Genuine question
Not yet but eventually yes.Genuine question
I work with a highly intelligent educated person who I would consider a friend and reasonable in all aspects but she won't take her children into central London for risk of terrorist attack and something happens to her children. This is same person who did Mount Everest base camp so not exactly risk averse herself...
Not something I agree with but each to their own.
Until people start holding themselves accountable for the environment they help create, life will only deteriorate.
People are too used to being handed an easy life. They don't feel the need to go do something to improve their life. It's not their job, they don't want to engage in that kind of thing because how would they even start?!
It's a fairly pathetic attitude of helplessness.
Terrorism doesn't magically happen, it needs fuel. Fuel in many forms. Some of that fuel is piss easy to get rid of.
Nobody gives a st though, it's not their job plus it would mean speaking to Muslims or God forbid, becoming friends with some when you suddenly realise you've got more in common than you thought.
Easier to sit back, go with the flow and blame your inaction on others.
People are too used to being handed an easy life. They don't feel the need to go do something to improve their life. It's not their job, they don't want to engage in that kind of thing because how would they even start?!
It's a fairly pathetic attitude of helplessness.
Terrorism doesn't magically happen, it needs fuel. Fuel in many forms. Some of that fuel is piss easy to get rid of.
Nobody gives a s
t though, it's not their job plus it would mean speaking to Muslims or God forbid, becoming friends with some when you suddenly realise you've got more in common than you thought.Easier to sit back, go with the flow and blame your inaction on others.
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