Terrorism - how will this all end?

Terrorism - how will this all end?

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Likes Fast Cars

2,768 posts

164 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
quotequote all
Sam All said:
Trabi601 said:
It'll just be replaced by another form of tribalism which can be used to justify hatred and violence.
If everyone converted to Islam (Sunni version), there would be peace for ever more.

Religion, a disease.
A sure-fire route to heel in a box if the whole world was Muslim!

From an existentialist perspective, how boring would that be?

Likes Fast Cars

2,768 posts

164 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
quotequote all
Sorry, meant to type "hell in a box" (not heel). Too much swigging the (soon to be illegal) hooch here in Turkey of an evening!

Likes Fast Cars

2,768 posts

164 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
quotequote all
AJL308 said:
I don't really think there is much too that. A lot of terrorism we have seen in the UK is from young people born here. I don't get the sense that they suddenly get the urge to blow themselves up on a bus because some houses get accidentally bombed by the Yanks in a country they have probably never even been to.

It's the religion, I'm afraid. Too many of its adherents have decided that they are fighting a holy war to Islamify the world or to impose the 'correct' version of Islam on it. That doesn't mean that all Muslims think this way but a very, very large proportion do.
This is true. I posted an article yesetrday by a Turkish journalist (Burak Bekdil) who has long criticised the Islaamised approach to things and hits on this very same point.

irocfan

40,152 posts

189 months

Thursday 28th July 2016
quotequote all
TTwiggy said:
All that jazz said:
Because the alternative is working out well isn't it? rolleyes Remind me again how many attacks there have been throughout history all in the name of sky fairy belief? Stamp out religion and the vast majority of the problems in the world are over. So yeah, the little old lady and local parish vicar are as good a place as any to start.
Do you believe that the enforced removal of all religion would be bloodless? How would you ensure it doesn't go underground and lead to more, not less, terrorism? Do you actually think it's clever/funny to constantly trot out the 'sky fairy' line? Have you also not thought this through too well?
the irony that idiots like this are not that far removed form the idiots of IS must be lost on ATJ - as an aside it has me agreeing with snorky and TT, most disturbing! wink

All that jazz

7,632 posts

145 months

Friday 29th July 2016
quotequote all
Well let's just let the bombings and attacks continue unabated then right? Seeing as none of you guys have a better plan. As I said earlier, extreme my views may be but we're well past the point of talking nicely to them to "negotiate" matters. The horse has long since bolted and drastic action is needed, but as usual all the lefty handwringers crawl out acting all offended.

Smiler.

11,752 posts

229 months

Friday 29th July 2016
quotequote all
All that jazz said:
Well let's just let the bombings and attacks continue unabated then right? Seeing as none of you guys have a better plan. As I said earlier, extreme my views may be but we're well past the point of talking nicely to them to "negotiate" matters. The horse has long since bolted and drastic action is needed, but as usual all the lefty handwringers crawl out acting all offended.
Don't take this the wrong way BUT it's not so much the extremity of them, more their ill thought out, childlike nature.

Violence begets violence. There once was a very powerful reaction by some people to a state of ignorance & injustice & violence was it's arbiter.

It was corrupt from the start & led to a life of misery for millions of people, was responsible for the deaths of millions more. In the relatively short space of time (a few decades), it was responsible for hundreds of times more deaths than that due to religious infractions over a much longer period.

And that doesn't include it's brother & sister regimes in neighbouring lands.

This is the logical conclusion to what you're suggesting. I'm no lefty handwringer by the way. I am only too keen to see the iffy religions & cultural norms held to account.

But your suggestion is not the way to do it.

zygalski

7,759 posts

144 months

Friday 29th July 2016
quotequote all
All that jazz said:
Well let's just let the bombings and attacks continue unabated then right? Seeing as none of you guys have a better plan. As I said earlier, extreme my views may be but we're well past the point of talking nicely to them to "negotiate" matters. The horse has long since bolted and drastic action is needed, but as usual all the lefty handwringers crawl out acting all offended.
What exactly do you suggest to help stamp out those who believe things which you think are wrong?
Special forces dawn raids on law-abiding families who have lived in the UK for generations making sure they're not thinking Muslim thoughts in their own homes?
FFS rolleyes
Truth of the matter is that most major conflict in the world isn't religion-based at all. It's mostly all about geopolitical land-grabs.

e21Mark

16,205 posts

172 months

Friday 29th July 2016
quotequote all
All that jazz said:
TTwiggy said:
All that jazz said:
Trabi601 said:
All that jazz said:
Because the alternative is working out well isn't it? rolleyes Remind me again how many attacks there have been throughout history all in the name of sky fairy belief? Stamp out religion and the vast majority of the problems in the world are over. So yeah, the little old lady and local parish vicar are as good a place as any to start.
It'll just be replaced by another form of tribalism which can be used to justify hatred and violence.
Keep wiping them out til they get the message that it has no place on this planet.
Irony defined.
Perhaps you'd like to proffer a better solution then? As I said, the current status quo is hardly working is it? What do you propose? We try talking to them nicely? That's bound to work. rolleyes
Personally I am an agnostic and whilst I may not be convinced there is a God, it doesn't mean I wouldn't like there to be. It's a belief that I grew up with and I am not willing to wholly reject it. I am also equally suspicious of people who seek to tear that comfort away and the disdain held for those who have a faith, usually due to the belief that religion has caused so much hurt and pain. Humans have killed one another for all time, be it down to communism, fascism or whatever. Religion, Politics and Freedom have all been used as excuses to kill and the idea that you remove one excuse and the killing will stop is just a nonsense.

Personally I think ignorance plays a huge part in what is happening. Be it the ignorance of those who are using a bastardised version of Islam for their own ends, or those that refuse to accept that Muslims and Muslim Extremists are not the same. Ignorance is down to a lack of education and you educate by talking. People are always fearful of things they don't understand and that's the same on both sides.

jjlynn27 said:
Zoon said:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/23/lo...

How he knew she was muslim isn't stated.
But he asked her a question, albeit a very stupid one.
Charges dropped. Very clever man obviously.

PR company owner said:
Who cares if I insulted some towelhead ?? Really.
Wow. eek

BigLion

Original Poster:

1,497 posts

98 months

Friday 29th July 2016
quotequote all
All that jazz said:
Well let's just let the bombings and attacks continue unabated then right? Seeing as none of you guys have a better plan. As I said earlier, extreme my views may be but we're well past the point of talking nicely to them to "negotiate" matters. The horse has long since bolted and drastic action is needed, but as usual all the lefty handwringers crawl out acting all offended.
hehe


lionelf

612 posts

99 months

Friday 29th July 2016
quotequote all
TTwiggy said:
Why would you want to make religion illegal in public?
To drag us into the 21st century and deter hard-line religious types from thinking that the UK is some sort of open house utopia where anything can be presented as a fact to children and adults can be radicalised away from what is true towards something that is regressive and harmful. We used to tolerate a group called The Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE) back in the 60's and 70's - indeed members were often quoted and even interviewed on the nightly news for their opinions and whilst it wasn't to everyone's taste they were broadly seen as slightly weird individuals who "loved children" too much. But they were a legal entity.

How naïve we were.

Whilst I'm not equating paedophilia with religion (although there are some overlapping practices) I'd say the same is true today of religion - we are being extremely naïve.

TTwiggy said:
What are you planning to do with all the old English churches and the nice middle class people who worship in them? Where would people get married? Who would annoint the Queen/King? Who's going to tell Her Maj that she doesn't have a church to be head of? Do you think you may not have thought this through too well?
That's about the weakest argument I've ever heard and I can think of a million things we could do with all the churches over my breakfast.

TTwiggy

11,499 posts

203 months

Friday 29th July 2016
quotequote all
lionelf said:
That's about the weakest argument I've ever heard and I can think of a million things we could do with all the churches over my breakfast.
You equate religion with paedophilia and then call my argument weak? Good grief.

Zoon

6,653 posts

120 months

Friday 29th July 2016
quotequote all
TheExcession said:
In my mind I think 'social media' is going to eventually set us all back a few steps too. I haven't quite figured out exactly how it will happen yet, but to me it is panning out as the latest religion.
You have only got to look at the amount of accounts that Twitter are closing with links to terrorists, to know that social media is being used for the wrong reasons.

lionelf

612 posts

99 months

Friday 29th July 2016
quotequote all
TTwiggy said:
lionelf said:
That's about the weakest argument I've ever heard and I can think of a million things we could do with all the churches over my breakfast.
You equate religion with paedophilia and then call my argument weak? Good grief.
Which bit of

lionelf said:
Whilst I'm not equating paedophilia with religion (although there are some overlapping practices) I'd say the same is true today of religion - we are being extremely naïve.
passed you by?

Although the practice of some Rabbi's putting young boys penis's to their mouths during the act of circumcision would ring bells in most sane peoples minds. Except the devout of course.

And yes, if you're argument against stopping something inherently bad from continuing comes down to 'but what are we going to do with the buildings left?' over then describing it as weak somewhat inflates it's status.

e21Mark

16,205 posts

172 months

Friday 29th July 2016
quotequote all
Sorry but suggesting the banning of religion will bring us into the 21st century is hilarious.

TTwiggy

11,499 posts

203 months

Friday 29th July 2016
quotequote all
lionelf said:
TTwiggy said:
lionelf said:
That's about the weakest argument I've ever heard and I can think of a million things we could do with all the churches over my breakfast.
You equate religion with paedophilia and then call my argument weak? Good grief.
Which bit of

lionelf said:
Whilst I'm not equating paedophilia with religion (although there are some overlapping practices) I'd say the same is true today of religion - we are being extremely naïve.
passed you by?

Although the practice of some Rabbi's putting young boys penis's to their mouths during the act of circumcision would ring bells in most sane peoples minds. Except the devout of course.

And yes, if you're argument against stopping something inherently bad from continuing comes down to 'but what are we going to do with the buildings left?' over then describing it as weak somewhat inflates it's status.
Priceless. 'I'm not equating A with B, but there are paralells and we used to tolerate A and are naive to tolerate B.'

Yes, you absolutely didn't equate religion and paedophilia!

e21Mark

16,205 posts

172 months

Friday 29th July 2016
quotequote all
Zoon said:
TheExcession said:
In my mind I think 'social media' is going to eventually set us all back a few steps too. I haven't quite figured out exactly how it will happen yet, but to me it is panning out as the latest religion.
You have only got to look at the amount of accounts that Twitter are closing with links to terrorists, to know that social media is being used for the wrong reasons.
Absolutely. It's used constantly to groom consumers and terrorists aren't so stupid as to not recognise just how powerful SM can be, in their drive to recruit new members.

Disastrous

10,072 posts

216 months

Friday 29th July 2016
quotequote all
All that jazz said:
Well let's just let the bombings and attacks continue unabated then right? Seeing as none of you guys have a better plan. As I said earlier, extreme my views may be but we're well past the point of talking nicely to them to "negotiate" matters. The horse has long since bolted and drastic action is needed, but as usual all the lefty handwringers crawl out acting all offended.
rofl

If only all right-wing nutters were as lacking in joined-up thinking and charisma as you are - Hitler would have never risen to power and Trump would simply be a comedic sideshow to grown ups doing politics.

Zoon

6,653 posts

120 months

Friday 29th July 2016
quotequote all
e21Mark said:
Sorry but suggesting the banning of religion will bring us into the 21st century is hilarious.
Not really, religion started when people had no understanding of why things happened.
So the solution was to blame all things, good and bad on God and it worked.
As an advanced being we now know that floating up and down from heaven and parting the seas is nonsense yet people still believe it.

Hundreds of years ago people used to drill holes in their skull to relieve a headache.
Now we just take a tablet with water.

TTwiggy

11,499 posts

203 months

Friday 29th July 2016
quotequote all
Zoon said:
Not really, religion started when people had no understanding of why things happened.
So the solution was to blame all things, good and bad on God and it worked.
As an advanced being we now know that floating up and down from heaven and parting the seas is nonsense yet people still believe it.

Hundreds of years ago people used to drill holes in their skull to relieve a headache.
Now we just take a tablet with water.
But there's a massive difference between allowing something to die a natural death - as religion is likely to eventually do - and making its practice a criminal offence. Seriously, can you really not imagine the consequences of this?

lionelf

612 posts

99 months

Friday 29th July 2016
quotequote all
TTwiggy said:
lionelf said:
TTwiggy said:
lionelf said:
That's about the weakest argument I've ever heard and I can think of a million things we could do with all the churches over my breakfast.
You equate religion with paedophilia and then call my argument weak? Good grief.
Which bit of

lionelf said:
Whilst I'm not equating paedophilia with religion (although there are some overlapping practices) I'd say the same is true today of religion - we are being extremely naïve.
passed you by?

Although the practice of some Rabbi's putting young boys penis's to their mouths during the act of circumcision would ring bells in most sane peoples minds. Except the devout of course.

And yes, if you're argument against stopping something inherently bad from continuing comes down to 'but what are we going to do with the buildings left?' over then describing it as weak somewhat inflates it's status.
Priceless. 'I'm not equating A with B, but there are paralells and we used to tolerate A and are naive to tolerate B.'

Yes, you absolutely didn't equate religion and paedophilia!
Yes, we used to tolerate smoking in restaurants but no longer do and I'm not equating that with religion either, oh wait, I suppose just have.

'We can't change things - what would we with all the churches?'

Quick, rebuild all the 19th century work houses laugh