Conversion to religion

[gadgetmac]

BigLion said:

lionelf said:

BigLion said:

lionelf said:

BigLion said:

Further the passion of shouting about being an atheist

Who 'shouts' about being an Atheist?

Atheists might 'shout' when told something is a fact when it is either patently untrue or at best unprovable but they never shout about the condition of being an Atheist.

Atheist bus campaign? The many threads on here? Etc.

Again, None of these are proclamations of "Hey, look at me, I'm an Atheist".

Yeah that right, having it plastered across a big red bus, in big letters, in the most densely populated city of the UK was an effort to keep it low key

But he's right. How is "There probably is no god now go and enjoy your life" the same as "Look at me, I'm an Atheist"?

You appear to be lacking a basic understanding of the English language.

[anonymous-user]

BigLion said:

lionelf said:

BigLion said:

lionelf said:

BigLion said:

Further the passion of shouting about being an atheist

Who 'shouts' about being an Atheist?

Atheists might 'shout' when told something is a fact when it is either patently untrue or at best unprovable but they never shout about the condition of being an Atheist.

Atheist bus campaign? The many threads on here? Etc.

Again, None of these are proclamations of "Hey, look at me, I'm an Atheist".

Yeah that right, having it plastered across a big red bus, in big letters, in the most densely populated city of the UK was an effort to keep it low key

It's evangelism. On these threads that type just cannot explain their own viewpoint without stating why someone else's is wrong. They seem to think that there is a religious person following them around all day, criticising their lifestyle, telling them how to live and telling them what facts they should accept. The silly thing is that, on here, it's those very complainants who are the annoying people doing the following, the criticising and the insisting.
I think though in some cases it just boils down to the character of the person. It's quite evident on the Brexit threads that there are a few names that also appear on many religious threads, people who are struggling to accept the path chosen by others, struggling to accept that it didn't go their way.

[FredClogs]

gadgetmac said:

But he's right. How is "There probably is no god now go and enjoy your life" the same as "Look at me, I'm an Atheist"?

You appear to be lacking a basic understanding of the English language.

Words are not a codec, people don't literally translate all marketting, advertising or anyother written language (including the bible) in such a way. It's fair to say that writing your thoughts on the side of a bus in foot high lettering is a bit "Hey look at me".

There is a bit of "Look at me, I'm an Atheist" going on though, isn't there... Just a smidgeon?

[gadgetmac]

FredClogs said:

gadgetmac said:

But he's right. How is "There probably is no god now go and enjoy your life" the same as "Look at me, I'm an Atheist"?

You appear to be lacking a basic understanding of the English language.

Words are not a codec, people don't literally translate all marketting, advertising or anyother written language (including the bible) in such a way. It's fair to say that writing your thoughts on the side of a bus in foot high lettering is a bit "Hey look at me".

There is a bit of "Look at me, I'm an Atheist" going on though, isn't there... Just a smidgeon?

Nope, not even a tincy-wincy bit. That sign is a response to this kind of sign that can be seen all over the US. It's a reply or rebuttal from a group of Atheists to a message that is ubiquitous outside many churches in the good old US of A.

[kowalski655]

Plenty of signs/billboards in the UK now,especially for the more evangelical type churches, and most churches have something about gods outside.

[gadgetmac]

kowalski655 said:

Plenty of signs/billboards in the UK now,especially for the more evangelical type churches, and most churches have something about gods outside.

Yeah, I was using the USA only because thats historically where those signs are almost part of the culture but the UK is very similar. Cheers.

[FredClogs]

kowalski655 said:

Plenty of signs/billboards in the UK now,especially for the more evangelical type churches, and most churches have something about gods outside.

Its inherent in any thought or knowledge process that you spread the word, advertise, grow the brand... That's just stuff happening in the way stuff happens, someone called it a meme.

[Derek Smith]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I think most non theists on here have no problem with the various religion followers doing their thing. You believe in one of the gods. I don't really care, in the same way as I'm not bothered by train spotters. However my beef, and that of a number of posters on here, is with the subsidies from my taxes that go to religions, the misogyny, the prejudice against those who follow different sexual lifestyles, the criminal way protection is denied to those who might be infected by various diseases, the fact that there are vicars in government, that they try and restrict my freedoms with their attempts to stop scientific endeavour as it breaks their rules. And my taxes, have I mentioned my taxes? I think it is worth repeating.

Have establishments accept the inferiority of women without apology gives credence to other oppressions.

Whilst I think you are demonstrably wrong in your belief of the supernatural, don't accuse me of wanting to stop your bells and smells. You do what you want. If you want to believe, or at least profess belief, that a cracker turns into human flesh, then go ahead. It really doesn't bother me.

You suggest that atheists criticise your lifestyle and tell you how to live your life. Irony is big with you. Religions still restrict my choices and I don't like it.

Indeed, you criticise others for your own faults. Stay out of my life is all I ask of the religions. Staying out of my life means don't demean women, don't accuse people who don't follow your sexual mores of doing something wrong, don't take my taxes, don't tell lies to those who live in AIDS areas. And some other stuff I will have mentioned before. You personally are entitled to your own moral beliefs, as indeed am I, but atheists, for all the posters and buses, don't have massive, well-funded organisations putting pressure on the rest of us. If you don't like the posters, don't look. I wish turning a blind eye to the religious infringements of my liberties and beliefs could solve the problem so easily.

I don't mind you being out of step with logic. That's fine with me. However, I don't like wild unevidenced accusations - if your tirade was aimed at me, they normally seem to be but you carefully didn't name names so I'll answer for others until you remedy that error - but that's freedom of speech and I'll accept it as long as I have a right of reply.

You do your thing. I won't try and stop you. But if you post on here you should accept that belief in any religion is rather odd given the overwhelming evidence against the supernatural. People are likely to comment.

[///ajd]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Interesting that you are attacking and demeaning the "character" of others here that you don't even know based on a few exchanges on brexit. What would your God have to say about you being so judgemental?

[Alpinestars]

Are there any religious books/texts that don't contain any scientific errors? Or do they all base any scientific observations on what was understood at the time they were written?

[Smiler.]

///ajd said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Interesting that you are attacking and demeaning the "character" of others here that you don't even know based on a few exchanges on brexit. What would your God have to say about you being so judgemental?

He'd say "that's my job", just before he'd smote you into oblivion.

With any luck.

Edited by Smiler. on Friday 29th July 06:53

[anonymous-user]

///ajd said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Interesting that you are attacking and demeaning the "character" of others here that you don't even know based on a few exchanges on brexit. What would your God have to say about you being so judgemental?

It was an observation, not really a judgement. And it's not just a few exchanges, it's many posts on multiple Brexit threads and a high number of exchanges with many other posters. I assume the point must have resonated with you.

[anonymous-user]

Derek Smith said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I think most non theists on here have no problem with the various religion followers doing their thing. You believe in one of the gods. I don't really care, in the same way as I'm not bothered by train spotters. However my beef, and that of a number of posters on here, is with the subsidies from my taxes that go to religions, the misogyny, the prejudice against those who follow different sexual lifestyles, the criminal way protection is denied to those who might be infected by various diseases, the fact that there are vicars in government, that they try and restrict my freedoms with their attempts to stop scientific endeavour as it breaks their rules. And my taxes, have I mentioned my taxes? I think it is worth repeating.

Have establishments accept the inferiority of women without apology gives credence to other oppressions.

Whilst I think you are demonstrably wrong in your belief of the supernatural, don't accuse me of wanting to stop your bells and smells. You do what you want. If you want to believe, or at least profess belief, that a cracker turns into human flesh, then go ahead. It really doesn't bother me.

You suggest that atheists criticise your lifestyle and tell you how to live your life. Irony is big with you. Religions still restrict my choices and I don't like it.

Indeed, you criticise others for your own faults. Stay out of my life is all I ask of the religions. Staying out of my life means don't demean women, don't accuse people who don't follow your sexual mores of doing something wrong, don't take my taxes, don't tell lies to those who live in AIDS areas. And some other stuff I will have mentioned before. You personally are entitled to your own moral beliefs, as indeed am I, but atheists, for all the posters and buses, don't have massive, well-funded organisations putting pressure on the rest of us. If you don't like the posters, don't look. I wish turning a blind eye to the religious infringements of my liberties and beliefs could solve the problem so easily.

I don't mind you being out of step with logic. That's fine with me. However, I don't like wild unevidenced accusations - if your tirade was aimed at me, they normally seem to be but you carefully didn't name names so I'll answer for others until you remedy that error - but that's freedom of speech and I'll accept it as long as I have a right of reply.

You do your thing. I won't try and stop you. But if you post on here you should accept that belief in any religion is rather odd given the overwhelming evidence against the supernatural. People are likely to comment.

I guess if the cap fits.
My point is exactly this though. If one was to pick a Muslim at random from Bradford, and then a member of IS, what would be their similarities and differences? I'd wager that the similarities would be a belief in their God and prophet, the stories and history and knowledge of their holy book. The main difference would be that one of them seems to be able to live and let live, can tolerate and accept others of different creeds and will not make a point of negatively affecting the lives of those others. The member of IS, on the other hand, will not and cannot accept anything or anyone that deviates from their own way. The character and personality of those people differ even though they share many cultural traits and beliefs. The member of IS projects their own issues onto others and makes a problem for them, but really the problem doesn't lie with others, it lies with the member of IS. The same applies to the religious and the non-religious. Most of us can get on without issue and some just can't handle it.

[BigLion]

gadgetmac said:

BigLion said:

lionelf said:

BigLion said:

lionelf said:

BigLion said:

Further the passion of shouting about being an atheist

Who 'shouts' about being an Atheist?

Atheists might 'shout' when told something is a fact when it is either patently untrue or at best unprovable but they never shout about the condition of being an Atheist.

Atheist bus campaign? The many threads on here? Etc.

Again, None of these are proclamations of "Hey, look at me, I'm an Atheist".

Yeah that right, having it plastered across a big red bus, in big letters, in the most densely populated city of the UK was an effort to keep it low key

But he's right. How is "There probably is no god now go and enjoy your life" the same as "Look at me, I'm an Atheist"?

You appear to be lacking a basic understanding of the English language.

Wow, just wow.

[Biker 1]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

This. Exactly.

Ironically, only God knows what the solution is (if any). Will we see any meaningful peace in our lifetimes? I doubt it. Big business weapons systems on one side, religion on the other.....

Edt: FYI I am agnostic bordering on tolerant atheist.....

[///ajd]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

It was a judgement - and now you're making it directly.

I feel strongly about brexit. The fact that I may still have concerns about it is not a bad thing, as you like to infer. Perhaps you feel I should just shut up and follow the flock. Something you perhaps expect from others.

As Derek points out, just following the flock is not always a good thing. You are always quick in any religion threads to attack anyone questioning its position in the world. Its intolerance of gays remains a huge stain on its character and anyone frankly who is persuaded to speak against gay marriage without thinking for themselves about the impact that could have on others.

A few, even many, discussions about access to the single market and free movement is rather small beer compared to cruelly discriminating against your fellow humans on a systematic basis as part of your chosen "club".

Come judgement day, if there is a real God, I know which "sin" I'd rather be carrying.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Derek Smith said:

I think most non theists on here have no problem with the various religion followers doing their thing. You believe in one of the gods. I don't really care, in the same way as I'm not bothered by train spotters. However my beef, and that of a number of posters on here, is with the subsidies from my taxes that go to religions, the misogyny, the prejudice against those who follow different sexual lifestyles, the criminal way protection is denied to those who might be infected by various diseases, the fact that there are vicars in government, that they try and restrict my freedoms with their attempts to stop scientific endeavour as it breaks their rules. And my taxes, have I mentioned my taxes? I think it is worth repeating.

Have establishments accept the inferiority of women without apology gives credence to other oppressions.

Whilst I think you are demonstrably wrong in your belief of the supernatural, don't accuse me of wanting to stop your bells and smells. You do what you want. If you want to believe, or at least profess belief, that a cracker turns into human flesh, then go ahead. It really doesn't bother me.

You suggest that atheists criticise your lifestyle and tell you how to live your life. Irony is big with you. Religions still restrict my choices and I don't like it.

Indeed, you criticise others for your own faults. Stay out of my life is all I ask of the religions. Staying out of my life means don't demean women, don't accuse people who don't follow your sexual mores of doing something wrong, don't take my taxes, don't tell lies to those who live in AIDS areas. And some other stuff I will have mentioned before. You personally are entitled to your own moral beliefs, as indeed am I, but atheists, for all the posters and buses, don't have massive, well-funded organisations putting pressure on the rest of us. If you don't like the posters, don't look. I wish turning a blind eye to the religious infringements of my liberties and beliefs could solve the problem so easily.

I don't mind you being out of step with logic. That's fine with me. However, I don't like wild unevidenced accusations - if your tirade was aimed at me, they normally seem to be but you carefully didn't name names so I'll answer for others until you remedy that error - but that's freedom of speech and I'll accept it as long as I have a right of reply.

You do your thing. I won't try and stop you. But if you post on here you should accept that belief in any religion is rather odd given the overwhelming evidence against the supernatural. People are likely to comment.

Absolutely spot on.

[Smiler.]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Derek Smith said:

I think most non theists on here have no problem with the various religion followers doing their thing. You believe in one of the gods. I don't really care, in the same way as I'm not bothered by train spotters. However my beef, and that of a number of posters on here, is with the subsidies from my taxes that go to religions, the misogyny, the prejudice against those who follow different sexual lifestyles, the criminal way protection is denied to those who might be infected by various diseases, the fact that there are vicars in government, that they try and restrict my freedoms with their attempts to stop scientific endeavour as it breaks their rules. And my taxes, have I mentioned my taxes? I think it is worth repeating.

Have establishments accept the inferiority of women without apology gives credence to other oppressions.

Whilst I think you are demonstrably wrong in your belief of the supernatural, don't accuse me of wanting to stop your bells and smells. You do what you want. If you want to believe, or at least profess belief, that a cracker turns into human flesh, then go ahead. It really doesn't bother me.

You suggest that atheists criticise your lifestyle and tell you how to live your life. Irony is big with you. Religions still restrict my choices and I don't like it.

Indeed, you criticise others for your own faults. Stay out of my life is all I ask of the religions. Staying out of my life means don't demean women, don't accuse people who don't follow your sexual mores of doing something wrong, don't take my taxes, don't tell lies to those who live in AIDS areas. And some other stuff I will have mentioned before. You personally are entitled to your own moral beliefs, as indeed am I, but atheists, for all the posters and buses, don't have massive, well-funded organisations putting pressure on the rest of us. If you don't like the posters, don't look. I wish turning a blind eye to the religious infringements of my liberties and beliefs could solve the problem so easily.

I don't mind you being out of step with logic. That's fine with me. However, I don't like wild unevidenced accusations - if your tirade was aimed at me, they normally seem to be but you carefully didn't name names so I'll answer for others until you remedy that error - but that's freedom of speech and I'll accept it as long as I have a right of reply.

You do your thing. I won't try and stop you. But if you post on here you should accept that belief in any religion is rather odd given the overwhelming evidence against the supernatural. People are likely to comment.

Absolutely spot on.

We get it. Derek doesn't like the Catholic church & I can understand why (although I don't know anything about his personal reasons). Some very valid points but missing some important parts of the whole picture.

[FredClogs]

Derek Smith said:

However my beef, and that of a number of posters on here, is with the subsidies from my taxes that go to religions

On this particular point "The Church of Atheism" seem to be the only set of people in the US who are petitioning the IRS because they want to pay more tax, they are indeed (or were) given the same tax exemptions as other religions.

https://www.atheists.org/legal/current/IRS

You can almost feel the piety coming from some of these Church of Atheism types.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Smiler. said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Derek Smith said:

I think most non theists on here have no problem with the various religion followers doing their thing. You believe in one of the gods. I don't really care, in the same way as I'm not bothered by train spotters. However my beef, and that of a number of posters on here, is with the subsidies from my taxes that go to religions, the misogyny, the prejudice against those who follow different sexual lifestyles, the criminal way protection is denied to those who might be infected by various diseases, the fact that there are vicars in government, that they try and restrict my freedoms with their attempts to stop scientific endeavour as it breaks their rules. And my taxes, have I mentioned my taxes? I think it is worth repeating.

Have establishments accept the inferiority of women without apology gives credence to other oppressions.

Whilst I think you are demonstrably wrong in your belief of the supernatural, don't accuse me of wanting to stop your bells and smells. You do what you want. If you want to believe, or at least profess belief, that a cracker turns into human flesh, then go ahead. It really doesn't bother me.

You suggest that atheists criticise your lifestyle and tell you how to live your life. Irony is big with you. Religions still restrict my choices and I don't like it.

Indeed, you criticise others for your own faults. Stay out of my life is all I ask of the religions. Staying out of my life means don't demean women, don't accuse people who don't follow your sexual mores of doing something wrong, don't take my taxes, don't tell lies to those who live in AIDS areas. And some other stuff I will have mentioned before. You personally are entitled to your own moral beliefs, as indeed am I, but atheists, for all the posters and buses, don't have massive, well-funded organisations putting pressure on the rest of us. If you don't like the posters, don't look. I wish turning a blind eye to the religious infringements of my liberties and beliefs could solve the problem so easily.

I don't mind you being out of step with logic. That's fine with me. However, I don't like wild unevidenced accusations - if your tirade was aimed at me, they normally seem to be but you carefully didn't name names so I'll answer for others until you remedy that error - but that's freedom of speech and I'll accept it as long as I have a right of reply.

You do your thing. I won't try and stop you. But if you post on here you should accept that belief in any religion is rather odd given the overwhelming evidence against the supernatural. People are likely to comment.

Absolutely spot on.

We get it. Derek doesn't like the Catholic church & I can understand why (although I don't know anything about his personal reasons). Some very valid points but missing some important parts of the whole picture.

What atheists like or dislike isn't relevant. It's the fact that we are forced to subsidise organisations we don't like that we are entitled to complain about. If people find those complaints too vocal, then tough luck.