Conversion to religion

Author
Discussion

drainbrain

5,637 posts

110 months

Friday 29th July 2016
quotequote all
alock said:
drainbrain said:
Yes I'll try. That aspect of human existence that engages with things spiritual.
So a dimension is an aspect of human existence and not part of geometry as I would have defined it?

Can you also define 'things spiritual'?

This might sound argumentative but my definition is probably different to yours and hence answering your question would be pointless unless I'm answering the right question.
I know it's a bit lazy, but it's also getting a bit late so try this:

(But NB the opening para of the definition section)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality

BigLion

1,497 posts

98 months

Friday 29th July 2016
quotequote all
Drainbrain, it feels like you're dodging my question so I will try to ask again.

Given the overlap of characters across Christianity, Islam and Judaism, do you believe that God is indifferent to whichever religion you are born into and conversion to a specific religion is not required to reach salvation?

///ajd

8,964 posts

205 months

Friday 29th July 2016
quotequote all
drainbrain said:
I was trying to put the incident into a modern social context. But I'm not sure it was merely the incident which doomed them, more the type of society and social mores from which the incident sprang. Not really 'love thy neighbour' type place, was it?

As to what God should or shouldn't do, it's not really the pot's place to tell the potter what he should do with his products. What would you think if some microbes in your body popped up to tell you how unacceptable they felt it was for you to blast some VD bugs with penicillin?

Sodom's activities had reached God's ears. And God wasn't having it. End of.
Well I'm not sure what sort of place it was. The prevailing view is it was all about the manx2 eros. There is something about inhospitability to strangers, but that looks more like straw clutching for those who find the homophobic interpretation unpalatable.

I would have thought it easy to take an easy position on whether God should have toasted them just for being gay. I'd say he definately shouldn't. Do you not agree? Gay people surely aren't like VD bugs are they?



drainbrain

5,637 posts

110 months

Saturday 30th July 2016
quotequote all
BigLion said:
Drainbrain, it feels like you're dodging my question so I will try to ask again.

Given the overlap of characters across Christianity, Islam and Judaism, do you believe that God is indifferent to whichever religion you are born into and conversion to a specific religion is not required to reach salvation?
Well, salvation to Christians is only attainable via Christ. One basic doctrinal difference with Islam is that muslims believe that continual good works can somehow 'buy' salvation. And Jews believe that the centrally important issue is legalism….obeying law to the nth degree. For a variety of reasons I -and I imagine all other Christians - believe they are in error. However I imagine they feel exactly the same.

The Dalai Lama was once asked what religion he thought was the best. He replied "the one that takes you closest to God". And whilst I believe that salvation is only attainable via Jesus Christ, I wouldn't say there wasn't wisdom in the DLs answer.

(also worth noting DLs use of the word God, as though there only is one. Interesting for the earthly head of what many think of as a non-theist religion).

///ajd

8,964 posts

205 months

Saturday 30th July 2016
quotequote all
drainbrain said:
So is he good with atheism or homosexuality being similarly dealt with? Fine. Keep it in your own house. Brainwash your kids with it. But don't dare bring into schools and ram it down every other kid's throat. etc etc etc. Just keep it locked up in your own house because I won't tolerate it having any public influence, presence or place!!

That's how intolerant bigots behave. And, like gay bashers, they are really running away from the gay in themselves. They've all got a low tolerance for anyone else's beliefs whilst holding theirs up as sacred cows.
Do you really think homosexuality is like a religion, a belief?

Its nature, not something to be brainwashed about. Do you actually understand that or do you think its some sort of wicked choice like the sodomites "made"? Telling kids it is wrong is evil & brainwashing - imagine being a gay kid told he is wicked and God will do fire and brimstone to you etc! I assume no religious school in the UK does this, or do they?




drainbrain

5,637 posts

110 months

Saturday 30th July 2016
quotequote all
///ajd said:
Well I'm not sure what sort of place it was. The prevailing view is it was all about the manx2 eros. There is something about inhospitability to strangers, but that looks more like straw clutching for those who find the homophobic interpretation unpalatable.

I would have thought it easy to take an easy position on whether God should have toasted them just for being gay. I'd say he definately shouldn't. Do you not agree? Gay people surely aren't like VD bugs are they?
Well that's not so. How much do you need to know to understand what Sodom was like? And how much of your perspective on Bad God The Gay Basher is an assumption too? Read the story in the last couple of chapters of Judges. Makes the doings in Sodom like a kiddies party. And not a gay in sight. And sodom wasn't about gay men having sex. It was about a town whose men demanded their right to violate a visitor by mass homosexual rape. And gay people aren't like VD bugs. It was an analogy. The gang raping sodomites were being likened to VD bugs which God/The Human was obliterating with penicillin. And if you were that human you were asked how you'd feel about a microbe suggesting you were in error for blasting those VD bugs?

As a Christian why do you think I would be homophobic? Jesus held up all kinds of sexually diverse as examples of good behaviour, not to mention erstwhile 'sinners' and non-Jews. Jesus set the bar very high on hating hurting and insulting others. Impossibly high for most if not all of us. It includes how you think. Hateful and angry thinking isn't acceptable. Nor is judging others. And much more.



drainbrain

5,637 posts

110 months

Saturday 30th July 2016
quotequote all
///ajd said:
Do you really think homosexuality is like a religion, a belief?

Its nature, not something to be brainwashed about. Do you actually understand that or do you think its some sort of wicked choice like the sodomites "made"? Telling kids it is wrong is evil & brainwashing - imagine being a gay kid told he is wicked and God will do fire and brimstone to you etc! I assume no religious school in the UK does this, or do they?
I think this conversation is becoming surreal. Possibly I am not explaining or articulating in a way you can understand. But you're not a stupid man. So why do you need to ask a Christian if he is a homophobe or misogynist or paedophile? Not content with that, people (or a sort of people) want to build an association between Christ and all the worlds ills, from hate crimes to wars.

Are even the most basic tenets of Christ's teaching unknown to you? Many of Christ's allies disciples and good examples were what others in the normal everyday society considered sinners deviants and outcasts. Many of his disciples and closest friends were women. He wasn't slow to protect a commandment-breaking adulteress from a stoning. And he didn't shrink from up close and personal contact with lepers, beggars and criminals. I'm stunned you don't know this. And very saddened that people really object to their children being familiarised with Christianity and its principles. You really don't want your kids hearing the Sermon on the Mount and drinking in its messages? That's really really sad. What moral compass do you want then? The Tories? The Police? The Atheist Society? Or like the last line in Judges." In those days Israel had no leader. Every man did as he thought fit".

Anyway it's bedtime for me, though not before a passage of scripture and a prayer.

angel



Edited by drainbrain on Saturday 30th July 00:50

chrispmartha

15,361 posts

128 months

Saturday 30th July 2016
quotequote all
drainbrain said:
///ajd said:
Do you really think homosexuality is like a religion, a belief?

Its nature, not something to be brainwashed about. Do you actually understand that or do you think its some sort of wicked choice like the sodomites "made"? Telling kids it is wrong is evil & brainwashing - imagine being a gay kid told he is wicked and God will do fire and brimstone to you etc! I assume no religious school in the UK does this, or do they?
I think this conversation is becoming surreal. Possibly I am not explaining or articulating in a way you can understand. But you're not a stupid man. So why do you need to ask a Christian if he is a homophobe or misogynist or paedophile? Not content with that, people (or a sort of people) want to build an association between Christ and all the worlds ills, from hate crimes to wars.

Are even the most basic tenets of Christ's teaching unknown to you? Many of Christ's allies disciples and good examples were what others in the normal everyday society considered sinners deviants and outcasts. Many of his disciples and closest friends were women. He wasn't slow to protect a commandment-breaking adulteress from a stoning. And he didn't shrink from up close and personal contact with lepers, beggars and criminals. I'm stunned you don't know this. And very saddened that people really object to their children being familiarised with Christianity and its principles. You really don't want your kids hearing the Sermon on the Mount and drinking in its messages? That's really really sad. What moral compass do you want then? The Tories? The Police? The Atheist Society? Or like the last line in Judges." In those days Israel had no leader. Every man did as he thought fit".

Anyway it's bedtime for me, though not before a passage of scripture and a prayer.

angel



Edited by drainbrain on Saturday 30th July 00:50
So I take it you only want your preffered brand if mumbo jumbo taught as fact in schools? Why wouldn't you want Islam or Scientiology taught as fact?

Why are you so sure you're right?

TwigtheWonderkid

43,248 posts

149 months

Saturday 30th July 2016
quotequote all
drainbrain said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Let me try and explain. You ask me if I'd like a glass of whisky. I say no. I do not want whisky, I do not want my kids to be forced to have whisky. I'll decide when and how they should be exposed to alcohol. Do not expect me to buy you a whisky. Do not expect whisky to be tax free at the expense of other flavours of alcohol. Do not give leading whisky drinkers a place in the House of Lords. Do not force broadcasters to put on a fixed number of programs for whisky drinkers. Do not tell children they will burn in hell for not liking whisky.

Drink as much whisky as you like, but leave others who do not like whisky to get on with their lives unimpeded by your fondness for whisky.
…and whatever you do don't even think about adopting a similarly intolerant position towards atheism, because….erm, because……erm, because IT'S MY FAITH SUBSTITUTE!
rofl Atheism...a faith substitute....I've heard it all now.

I thought a substitute was a replacement for something, but according to you it's not having something at all.

So you order cod and chips and the waitress says "we're all out of cod, but can I suggest as a substitute, I just bring you the chips." You'd be happy with that? I'd be expecting haddock or plaice.

SWoll

18,207 posts

257 months

Saturday 30th July 2016
quotequote all
drainbrain said:
I think this conversation is becoming surreal.
Becoming? At what point was it anything but?

drainbrain said:
You really don't want your kids hearing the Sermon on the Mount and drinking in its messages? That's really really sad. What moral compass do you want then?
Very much not, although at 12 and 15 both my children have long seen through religion for what it is as they were raised in a home where free though is something that is actively encouraged. Funny how that works out isn't it?

The moral compass argument always makes me chuckle. Not only does religion in one way or another appear to be linked to almost every moral atrocity you could care to mention but do you honestly believe that the only reason you do good is because you've been given a list by a higher power? I feel sorry for you if that is how low the opinion of your own innate humanity is.

drainbrain said:
Anyway it's bedtime for me, though not before a passage of scripture and a prayer. angel
I might read last years list to Santa and then leave a tooth under my pillow tonight. I imagine the end result will be identical to yours. xmas

WinstonWolf

72,857 posts

238 months

Saturday 30th July 2016
quotequote all
drainbrain said:
///ajd said:
Do you really think homosexuality is like a religion, a belief?

Its nature, not something to be brainwashed about. Do you actually understand that or do you think its some sort of wicked choice like the sodomites "made"? Telling kids it is wrong is evil & brainwashing - imagine being a gay kid told he is wicked and God will do fire and brimstone to you etc! I assume no religious school in the UK does this, or do they?
I think this conversation is becoming surreal. Possibly I am not explaining or articulating in a way you can understand. But you're not a stupid man. So why do you need to ask a Christian if he is a homophobe or misogynist or paedophile? Not content with that, people (or a sort of people) want to build an association between Christ and all the worlds ills, from hate crimes to wars.

Are even the most basic tenets of Christ's teaching unknown to you? Many of Christ's allies disciples and good examples were what others in the normal everyday society considered sinners deviants and outcasts. Many of his disciples and closest friends were women. He wasn't slow to protect a commandment-breaking adulteress from a stoning. And he didn't shrink from up close and personal contact with lepers, beggars and criminals. I'm stunned you don't know this. And very saddened that people really object to their children being familiarised with Christianity and its principles. You really don't want your kids hearing the Sermon on the Mount and drinking in its messages? That's really really sad. What moral compass do you want then? The Tories? The Police? The Atheist Society? Or like the last line in Judges." In those days Israel had no leader. Every man did as he thought fit".

Anyway it's bedtime for me, though not before a passage of scripture and a prayer.

angel



Edited by drainbrain on Saturday 30th July 00:50
I'm still waiting wavey

Why didn't the animals on the ark eat each other?
What would the mass of two of each species be?

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 30th July 2016
quotequote all
I'm sure if DB follows the teachings of Jesus then he has the right to call himself Christian, after all Christian means 'of Christ'. He doesn't have to belong to any particular church, he doesn't have to agree with the OT ways that predated Jesus which in some ways appear to be alien to what Jesus thought.
So why question him on OT things and refuse to answer him when he asks what things did Jesus say against gay people, against women, against loving other people? That appears to be the core of his faith, yet you people skirt around that and pose questions about things that likely don't form part of his beliefs.

Sorry DB, if I speak out of turn or make assumptions about your faith.

///ajd

8,964 posts

205 months

Saturday 30th July 2016
quotequote all
drainbrain said:
///ajd said:
Do you really think homosexuality is like a religion, a belief?

Its nature, not something to be brainwashed about. Do you actually understand that or do you think its some sort of wicked choice like the sodomites "made"? Telling kids it is wrong is evil & brainwashing - imagine being a gay kid told he is wicked and God will do fire and brimstone to you etc! I assume no religious school in the UK does this, or do they?
I think this conversation is becoming surreal. Possibly I am not explaining or articulating in a way you can understand. But you're not a stupid man. So why do you need to ask a Christian if he is a homophobe or misogynist or paedophile? Not content with that, people (or a sort of people) want to build an association between Christ and all the worlds ills, from hate crimes to wars.

Are even the most basic tenets of Christ's teaching unknown to you? Many of Christ's allies disciples and good examples were what others in the normal everyday society considered sinners deviants and outcasts. Many of his disciples and closest friends were women. He wasn't slow to protect a commandment-breaking adulteress from a stoning. And he didn't shrink from up close and personal contact with lepers, beggars and criminals. I'm stunned you don't know this. And very saddened that people really object to their children being familiarised with Christianity and its principles. You really don't want your kids hearing the Sermon on the Mount and drinking in its messages? That's really really sad. What moral compass do you want then? The Tories? The Police? The Atheist Society? Or like the last line in Judges." In those days Israel had no leader. Every man did as he thought fit".

Anyway it's bedtime for me, though not before a passage of scripture and a prayer.

angel



Edited by drainbrain on Saturday 30th July 00:50
I can see you are deliberately avoiding discussing issues and changing the subject.

It was you who suggested not educating kids about homosexuality. Why - only you know what was going through your mind when you typed it.

I don't need religion for a moral compass - and certainly not one that campaigns against gay marriage, reinforcing the idea we are not somehow all equal! Morals come from humans who then put them in religions - with varying degrees of success, especially when dreamt up against the now considered backward cultures of 2000 years ago.

I note that the Judges 19 episode with the concubine started with - oh look - some more evil man eros - they were very obsessed with demonizing gay sex, weren't they! Even murdering women prostitutes was down to gay men. The more you read it, the worse it looks for the OT - they make the gay men do terrible things to hetero people to really whip up that homophobia - that certainly seems the intent of the author.

I can understand why many now play down these passages and just say "ah the sodomites were mean to strangers, that is what was really meant". Understandable as the real homophobia on show does not come across well in this day and age.







TwigtheWonderkid

43,248 posts

149 months

Saturday 30th July 2016
quotequote all
WinstonWolf said:
I'm still waiting wavey

Why didn't the animals on the ark eat each other?
What would the mass of two of each species be?
I think the official answer was that the bible said Noah took 2 of each kind. So no need for penguins. Just 2 birds will do. How they evolved into the multitude of species of birds in just 6000 years is another question.

I am always slightly amused when I see Noah's ark toys, with the ark and a set of cute animals. I'm always tempted to ask where the rest of the set is; the dead animals, the rotting corpses floating in the water, the millions of babies with their heads smashed against the rocks in the tumult.





Alpinestars

13,954 posts

243 months

Saturday 30th July 2016
quotequote all
WinstonWolf said:
I'm still waiting wavey

Why didn't the animals on the ark eat each other?
What would the mass of two of each species be?
Or how the earth evolved from being flat to round, and how we moved from being geo to heliocentric.

standards

1,117 posts

217 months

Saturday 30th July 2016
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I think the official answer was that the bible said Noah took 2 of each kind. So no need for penguins. Just 2 birds will do. How they evolved into the multitude of species of birds in just 6000 years is another question.

I am always slightly amused when I see Noah's ark toys, with the ark and a set of cute animals. I'm always tempted to ask where the rest of the set is; the dead animals, the rotting corpses floating in the water, the millions of babies with their heads smashed against the rocks in the tumult.
More than two each in the story. Seven pairs of 'clean' animals & birds (Genesis 7: 2-3) in the Almighty's original destructions.

As for the toy set-I'm thinking of your Farm Yard Animal Set-and here are the screaming castrated piglets. Or the Emergency Vehicle Set-with the car and occupants mangled beyond recognition. Ayrton Senna Fatal Edition Scalextrix anyone?





alock

4,224 posts

210 months

Saturday 30th July 2016
quotequote all
drainbrain said:
alock said:
drainbrain said:
Yes I'll try. That aspect of human existence that engages with things spiritual.
So a dimension is an aspect of human existence and not part of geometry as I would have defined it?

Can you also define 'things spiritual'?

This might sound argumentative but my definition is probably different to yours and hence answering your question would be pointless unless I'm answering the right question.
I know it's a bit lazy, but it's also getting a bit late so try this:

(But NB the opening para of the definition section)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality
This then
wikipedia said:
According to Waaijman, the traditional meaning of spirituality is a process of re-formation which "aims to recover the original shape of man, the image of God. To accomplish this, the re-formation is oriented at a mold, which represents the original shape: in Judaism the Torah, in Christianity there is Christ, for Buddhism, Buddha, and in Islam, Muhammad." In modern times the emphasis is on subjective experience incorporating personal growth or transformation, usually in a context separate from organized religious institutions. Houtman and Aupers suggest that modern spirituality is a blend of humanistic psychology, mystical and esoteric traditions and eastern religions.
Which defines both traditional and modern meanings of the word. That hasn't helped me understand which of those two definitions you are inferring to in your original question. One is about imagining man in the image of God, the other is about moving away from the mainstream religions.

To clarify, I'm still trying to understand what you mean by this?

drainbrain said:
So is the spiritual dimension in this finite life within a 'world full of wonders' something you've outgrown, never attained, yet to explore, or simply doesn't exist?
Traditional meaning. God doesn't exist and hence I've outgrown the need to be spiritual.

Modern meaning. Why would I bother making stuff up when it won't be as good as what is demonstrably true. I'm as well read in modern scientific discoveries as I have the time to be. Trying to understanding how life evolves and concepts like the discovery of where human Chromosome #2 came from is fascinating. How a star goes super nova and creates all the heavy elements in the universe that make up fundamental parts of every living entity. I excelled in a couple of the quantum physics options during my physics degree, but I'm still blown away by some of the conclusions you can draw from the maths. The universe as described by modern science is truly wonderful and is far more beautiful and impressive than any nonsense I could make up by just thinking about something I would like to be real.

TwigtheWonderkid

43,248 posts

149 months

Saturday 30th July 2016
quotequote all
alock said:
The universe as described by modern science is truly wonderful and is far more beautiful and impressive than any nonsense I could make up by just thinking about something I would like to be real.
It's the same for all branches of science. I think the history of evolution is a far more awe inspiring than any religious creation myth.

If you chose to, you could spend your whole working life studying something as humdrum and everyday as photosynthesis, because it's just so utterly amazing.

Edited by TwigtheWonderkid on Saturday 30th July 14:50

drainbrain

5,637 posts

110 months

Saturday 30th July 2016
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
smile ….so basically they all take a rest break and then come swarming back, and in numbers!! Arrgh! It's overwhelming me!!

Seriously, I take it you're the house Last Man Standing and it never gets past trying to stave off the onslaught whilst you pick off the occasional one before it bites you and you're obliged to join in laugh And the odd bod like me drops in and draws them off for a while before I move on and leave you to deal with the relentless onslaught alone…… You could just imagine it transcribed to a TV show, couldn't you?

Sorry, mate, but I'm afraid it's time I moved on. Apart from which I actually do have a life beyond the interweb . And more pertinently I'm reminded of the passage which adjures us not to engage in pointless dispute. Which this pretty clearly is. And I've fallen for it like a fool.

Well it really only was an attempt to enlighten. And do you know, I think it's maybe got somewhere. Ok it drew out the usual pus - Bad God - not like Santa at all - doesn't exist- not real like science - and even some of the amusing ones. Most notably, the bloke ( I presume grown up adult) who demands the Noahic questions answered like a 6 year old asking daddy stupid questions, and the one who denies spirituality exists (because it wasn't part of his physics lessons). Honest to goodness. Then you've got the one obsessed with homosexuality and showing God as a homophobe, because the OT has stories of gang rapists (who are also homosexual but probably also like eating chicken) being snuffed. The only really quite sad one is the one who really doesn't want his kids coming in contact with The Sermon on the Mount. Guess his degree didn't include a foray into Moral Philosophy. But for heaven's sake that's like refusing to "expose" your kids to Beethoven because only One Direction is real music and anyway classical music isn't music at all!

Yep, you've a hard road here and possibly a fruitless one. BUT as I said, I've maybe made some headway. Because at least there's an acceptance - albeit borne out of the silence on the matter - that Christ's teachings can't be ascribed to the promotion of homophobia/misogyny/paedophilia/war/anything negative or evil. No-one had much to say on the synopsis of love as the central core christian teaching either. So maybe, just maybe, there's the dawning of the dim understanding of Christ's mission as one of love for mankind and the encouragement of men to love each other.

I'd leave it at maybe, tho. Because there's still demonstrable monster ignorance of the manifold difference between faith esp. Christian faith and organised religion esp. the Christian 'Church". Religion (equated to faith) is still 'to blame' for all the world's evils. Religion/Faith's eradication being seen as a panacea for same. Therefore anyone espousing faith as a positive influence is wrong, period. And anyway it's all imaginary. So whether Christianity has only love to offer the human race or not has no meaning because there is no Jesus, no God, no spirituality and nothing beyond the visible tangible and empirically provable. Plus, of course, any theories which may support the same notion. They are ok. As is "love"- it apparently exists, although not, possibly, in all the forms into which classical Greek separates it.

One thing needs to be said, tho. Whilst there are many capable and interesting 'arguments' and debates over points of Christian teaching, these spring without exception from people with a well grounded understanding of what Christianity really is. That isn't evident here. It really isn't. Even understanding of the superficial facets of scripture aren't much evident. As the serious student is aware, mature scriptural understanding requires the application of a variety of other disciplines - linguistics, semantics,sociology, moral philosophy to name but a few- in order to begin to develop. Here we're at the "why didn't the animals on the ark eat each other" stage. So I'll leave it there and leave you to answer that and other deep spiritual questions from the oncoming relentless horde of attackers…….

God Bless (as we say in the sky fairy dingly dell) . They're all yours again!!


















Edited by drainbrain on Saturday 30th July 15:17

///ajd

8,964 posts

205 months

Saturday 30th July 2016
quotequote all
drainbrain said:
smile ….so basically they all take a rest break and then come swarming back, and in numbers!! Arrgh! It's overwhelming me!!

Seriously, I take it you're the house Last Man Standing and it never gets past trying to stave off the onslaught whilst you pick off the occasional one before it bites you and you're obliged to join in laugh And the odd bod like me drops in and draws them off for a while before I move on and leave you to deal with the relentless onslaught alone…… You could just imagine it transcribed to a TV show, couldn't you?

Sorry, mate, but I'm afraid it's time I moved on. Apart from which I actually do have a life beyond the interweb . And more pertinently I'm reminded of the passage which adjures us not to engage in pointless dispute. Which this pretty clearly is. And I've fallen for it like a fool.

Well it really only was an attempt to enlighten. And do you know, I think it's maybe got somewhere. Ok it drew out the usual pus - Bad God - not like Santa at all - doesn't exist- not real like science - and even some of the amusing ones. Most notably, the bloke ( I presume grown up adult) who demands the Noahic questions answered like a 6 year old asking daddy stupid questions, and the one who denies spirituality exists (because it wasn't part of his physics lessons). Honest to goodness. Then you've got the one obsessed with homosexuality and showing God as a homophobe, because the OT has stories of gang rapists (who are also homosexual but probably also like eating chicken) being snuffed. The only really quite sad one is the one who really doesn't want his kids coming in contact with The Sermon on the Mount. Guess his degree didn't include a foray into Moral Philosophy. But for heaven's sake that's like refusing to "expose" your kids to Beethoven because only One Direction is real music and anyway classical music isn't music at all!

Yep, you've a hard road here and possibly a fruitless one. BUT as I said, I've maybe made some headway. Because at least there's an acceptance - albeit borne out of the silence on the matter - that Christ's teachings can't be ascribed to the promotion of homophobia/misogyny/paedophilia/war/anything negative or evil. No-one had much to say on the synopsis of love as the central core christian teaching either. So maybe, just maybe, there's the dawning of the dim understanding of Christ's mission as one of love for mankind and the encouragement of men to love each other.

I'd leave it at maybe, tho. Because there's still demonstrable monster ignorance of the manifold difference between faith esp. Christian faith and organised religion esp. the Christian 'Church". Religion (equated to faith) is still 'to blame' for all the world's evils. Religion/Faith's eradication being seen as a panacea for same. Therefore anyone espousing faith as a positive influence is wrong, period. And anyway it's all imaginary. So whether Christianity has only love to offer the human race or not has no meaning because there is no Jesus, no God, no spirituality and nothing beyond the visible tangible and empirically provable. Plus, of course, any theories which may support the same notion. They are ok. As is "love"- it apparently exists, although not, possibly, in all the forms into which classical Greek separates it.

One thing needs to be said, tho. Whilst there are many capable and interesting 'arguments' and debates over points of Christian teaching, these spring without exception from people with a well grounded understanding of what Christianity really is. That isn't evident here. It really isn't. Even understanding of the superficial facets of scripture aren't much evident. As the serious student is aware, mature scriptural understanding requires the application of a variety of other disciplines - linguistics, semantics,sociology, moral philosophy to name but a few- in order to begin to develop. Here we're at the "why didn't the animals on the ark eat each other" stage. So I'll leave it there and leave you to answer that and other deep spiritual questions from the oncoming relentless horde of attackers…….

God Bless (as we say in the sky fairy dingly dell) . They're all yours again!!


Edited by drainbrain on Saturday 30th July 15:17
He started in a friendly enough way but is now just telling us how much smarter he is than anyone else who are all kids/idiots/haven't read much properly.l

I like the way you have to the read the blatent homophobia is a special way with special langages skills blah blah blah to see its not really homophobic.

The story of sodom is very clealy homophobic
Jesus refers specifically the the story of sodom - forging a clear link between Jesus & the OT & its homophobia
The church until recently has been very OK peddling homophobia

Keep pretending it ain't so if it makes you feel better. Don't expect many to believe you though, its all in the scriptures - they aren't hard to read in the way obviously intended.









Edited by ///ajd on Saturday 30th July 15:41