Conversion to religion

[TwigtheWonderkid]

And this really is the crux of the matter. People can believe in whatever supernatural claptrap they please. But don't ask me to fund it with higher taxes to pick up the shortfall caused by your exemption from paying.

Treat your religion like your penis, keep it to yourselves and don't try and ram it down the throats of children. Don't impose it on me with stupid laws about my sexual conduct, access to contraception, daft trading laws or any other nonsense. If you don't want to shop on Sunday, then don't. But don't stop me.

Don't guarantee spots for 26 bishops in the House of Lords, so they get a say in legislation that effects me. Don't impose compulsory Christian worship in state schools.

And on and on.

Just leave me alone, separate from your idiocy, to live out my godless life.

[Alpinestars]

BigLion said:

All you need to know is that there are 2 lamps in the sky. The sun and the moon. GGS 83.

[BigLion]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

And this really is the crux of the matter. People can believe in whatever supernatural claptrap they please. But don't ask me to fund it with higher taxes to pick up the shortfall caused by your exemption from paying.

Treat your religion like your penis, keep it to yourselves and don't try and ram it down the throats of children. Don't impose it on me with stupid laws about my sexual conduct, access to contraception, daft trading laws or any other nonsense. If you don't want to shop on Sunday, then don't. But don't stop me.

Don't guarantee spots for 26 bishops in the House of Lords, so they get a say in legislation that effects me. Don't impose compulsory Christian worship in state schools.

And on and on.

Just leave me alone, separate from your idiocy, to live out my godless life.

Yet you seem to make great effort to tell religious types not be religious? Hypocrisy?

[chrispmartha]

BigLion said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

And this really is the crux of the matter. People can believe in whatever supernatural claptrap they please. But don't ask me to fund it with higher taxes to pick up the shortfall caused by your exemption from paying.

Treat your religion like your penis, keep it to yourselves and don't try and ram it down the throats of children. Don't impose it on me with stupid laws about my sexual conduct, access to contraception, daft trading laws or any other nonsense. If you don't want to shop on Sunday, then don't. But don't stop me.

Don't guarantee spots for 26 bishops in the House of Lords, so they get a say in legislation that effects me. Don't impose compulsory Christian worship in state schools.

And on and on.

Just leave me alone, separate from your idiocy, to live out my godless life.

Yet you seem to make great effort to tell religious types not be religious? Hypocrisy?

Eh, what part of his words 'believe any supernatural claptrap you please' dont you understand?

Be as Religious as you like, just dont expect any special treatment because of your beliefs

[Alpinestars]

BigLion said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

And this really is the crux of the matter. People can believe in whatever supernatural claptrap they please. But don't ask me to fund it with higher taxes to pick up the shortfall caused by your exemption from paying.

Treat your religion like your penis, keep it to yourselves and don't try and ram it down the throats of children. Don't impose it on me with stupid laws about my sexual conduct, access to contraception, daft trading laws or any other nonsense. If you don't want to shop on Sunday, then don't. But don't stop me.

Don't guarantee spots for 26 bishops in the House of Lords, so they get a say in legislation that effects me. Don't impose compulsory Christian worship in state schools.

And on and on.

Just leave me alone, separate from your idiocy, to live out my godless life.

Yet you seem to make great effort to tell religious types not be religious? Hypocrisy?

That's not what he said.

[alock]

drainbrain said:

So is the spiritual dimension in this finite life within a 'world full of wonders' something you've outgrown, never attained, yet to explore, or simply doesn't exist?

Can you define what you mean by 'spiritual dimension'?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

BigLion said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

And this really is the crux of the matter. People can believe in whatever supernatural claptrap they please. But don't ask me to fund it with higher taxes to pick up the shortfall caused by your exemption from paying.

Treat your religion like your penis, keep it to yourselves and don't try and ram it down the throats of children. Don't impose it on me with stupid laws about my sexual conduct, access to contraception, daft trading laws or any other nonsense. If you don't want to shop on Sunday, then don't. But don't stop me.

Don't guarantee spots for 26 bishops in the House of Lords, so they get a say in legislation that effects me. Don't impose compulsory Christian worship in state schools.

And on and on.

Just leave me alone, separate from your idiocy, to live out my godless life.

Yet you seem to make great effort to tell religious types not be religious? Hypocrisy?

Let me try and explain. You ask me if I'd like a glass of whisky. I say no. I do not want whisky, I do not want my kids to be forced to have whisky. I'll decide when and how they should be exposed to alcohol. Do not expect me to buy you a whisky. Do not expect whisky to be tax free at the expense of other flavours of alcohol. Do not give leading whisky drinkers a place in the House of Lords. Do not force broadcasters to put on a fixed number of programs for whisky drinkers. Do not tell children they will burn in hell for not liking whisky.

Drink as much whisky as you like, but leave others who do not like whisky to get on with their lives unimpeded by your fondness for whisky.

[BigLion]

chrispmartha said:

BigLion said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

And this really is the crux of the matter. People can believe in whatever supernatural claptrap they please. But don't ask me to fund it with higher taxes to pick up the shortfall caused by your exemption from paying.

Treat your religion like your penis, keep it to yourselves and don't try and ram it down the throats of children. Don't impose it on me with stupid laws about my sexual conduct, access to contraception, daft trading laws or any other nonsense. If you don't want to shop on Sunday, then don't. But don't stop me.

Don't guarantee spots for 26 bishops in the House of Lords, so they get a say in legislation that effects me. Don't impose compulsory Christian worship in state schools.

And on and on.

Just leave me alone, separate from your idiocy, to live out my godless life.

Yet you seem to make great effort to tell religious types not be religious? Hypocrisy?

Eh, what part of his words 'believe any supernatural claptrap you please' dont you understand?

Be as Religious as you like, just dont expect any special treatment because of your beliefs

Just read some of his historical thread responses on religion...

[BigLion]

Alpinestars said:

BigLion said:

All you need to know is that there are 2 lamps in the sky. The sun and the moon. GGS 83.

That reads cryptic, I don't understand? Are you saying Jesus and Mohammed are the same...Jesus being the larger sun and Mohammed the smaller orbiting moon or something???

[drainbrain]

///ajd said:

You may be trying to deflect onto self love and narcissism, but the sodom love in the Lot story is clearly very much of the eros variety.

So what do you think of what you can tell about the sodomites? Nice folk? The type of people whose town you'd like to spend some time in?

Though very recently homosexuality was outlawed but now isn't and is no longer a taboo and a social demon, back in those days in Hebrew culture it was very much a no-no. So translate it to 21st century understanding. Suppose the sodomites had turned up en masse at the door wanting to commit mass paedophilic rape on Lot's primary school kids, because that's one of their practices. Would that make sodom the type of place you'd be happy with God obliterating? In the way mass homosexual gang rapists don't really deserve death (not that all would agree) does it make a difference if their lead offence is a current taboo and social demon?

How far are either group from the concept of 'love thy neighbour'? A bit distanced? Pretty far? Or at the total opposite end of the spectrum which evidences a contempt for their fellow human beings?

[SWoll]

alock said:

drainbrain said:

So is the spiritual dimension in this finite life within a 'world full of wonders' something you've outgrown, never attained, yet to explore, or simply doesn't exist?

Can you define what you mean by 'spiritual dimension'?

Waits with baited breath for another 3 paragraphs of indecipherable, theological nonsense that basically equates to 'another word we made up to give a name to something we don't have any evidence for but like to claim as our own as it makes us feel superior'

[drainbrain]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Let me try and explain. You ask me if I'd like a glass of whisky. I say no. I do not want whisky, I do not want my kids to be forced to have whisky. I'll decide when and how they should be exposed to alcohol. Do not expect me to buy you a whisky. Do not expect whisky to be tax free at the expense of other flavours of alcohol. Do not give leading whisky drinkers a place in the House of Lords. Do not force broadcasters to put on a fixed number of programs for whisky drinkers. Do not tell children they will burn in hell for not liking whisky.

Drink as much whisky as you like, but leave others who do not like whisky to get on with their lives unimpeded by your fondness for whisky.

…and whatever you do don't even think about adopting a similarly intolerant position towards atheism, because….erm, because……erm, because IT'S MY FAITH SUBSTITUTE!

Closet believers….the worst type. Worse even than ex-smokers.

[drainbrain]

alock said:

drainbrain said:

So is the spiritual dimension in this finite life within a 'world full of wonders' something you've outgrown, never attained, yet to explore, or simply doesn't exist?

Can you define what you mean by 'spiritual dimension'?

Yes I'll try. That aspect of human existence that engages with things spiritual.

[///ajd]

drainbrain said:

///ajd said:

You may be trying to deflect onto self love and narcissism, but the sodom love in the Lot story is clearly very much of the eros variety.

So what do you think of what you can tell about the sodomites? Nice folk? The type of people whose town you'd like to spend some time in?

Though very recently homosexuality was outlawed but now isn't and is no longer a taboo and a social demon, back in those days in Hebrew culture it was very much a no-no. So translate it to 21st century understanding. Suppose the sodomites had turned up en masse at the door wanting to commit mass paedophilic rape on Lot's primary school kids, because that's one of their practices. Would that make sodom the type of place you'd be happy with God obliterating? In the way mass homosexual gang rapists don't really deserve death (not that all would agree) does it make a difference if their lead offence is a current taboo and social demon?

How far are either group from the concept of 'love thy neighbour'? A bit distanced? Pretty far? Or at the total opposite end of the spectrum which evidences a contempt for their fellow human beings?

It seems you are changing scripture now to suit the current times.

Back then the only real gripe about the sodomites was their manx2 eros. They were demonised for that, and the sentiment seems to pervade today all over the world in various religions. I'm not even sure it was about rape, which puts a different angle on it.

If you feel the stigma applied to manx2 eros in the OT is now totally unacceptable, then I'd agree. God shouldn't really have incinerated them for that, should he?

[alock]

drainbrain said:

Yes I'll try. That aspect of human existence that engages with things spiritual.

So a dimension is an aspect of human existence and not part of geometry as I would have defined it?

Can you also define 'things spiritual'?

This might sound argumentative but my definition is probably different to yours and hence answering your question would be pointless unless I'm answering the right question.

[///ajd]

drainbrain said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Let me try and explain. You ask me if I'd like a glass of whisky. I say no. I do not want whisky, I do not want my kids to be forced to have whisky. I'll decide when and how they should be exposed to alcohol. Do not expect me to buy you a whisky. Do not expect whisky to be tax free at the expense of other flavours of alcohol. Do not give leading whisky drinkers a place in the House of Lords. Do not force broadcasters to put on a fixed number of programs for whisky drinkers. Do not tell children they will burn in hell for not liking whisky.

Drink as much whisky as you like, but leave others who do not like whisky to get on with their lives unimpeded by your fondness for whisky.

…and whatever you do don't even think about adopting a similarly intolerant position towards atheism, because….erm, because……erm, because IT'S MY FAITH SUBSTITUTE!

Closet believers….the worst type. Worse even than ex-smokers.

He's not being intolerant. You can drink as much whiskey as you want. You can pump it down your kids throats all day long.

What more do you want/expect?
- You want to be able to pump whiskey into other peoples kids at school? Why do you think that is right?
- You want special tax free status for whiskey when other drinks don't have it? Why?

In what way is he a closet believer, and in what way is he the "worst type"?

[drainbrain]

///ajd said:

drainbrain said:

///ajd said:

You may be trying to deflect onto self love and narcissism, but the sodom love in the Lot story is clearly very much of the eros variety.

So what do you think of what you can tell about the sodomites? Nice folk? The type of people whose town you'd like to spend some time in?

Though very recently homosexuality was outlawed but now isn't and is no longer a taboo and a social demon, back in those days in Hebrew culture it was very much a no-no. So translate it to 21st century understanding. Suppose the sodomites had turned up en masse at the door wanting to commit mass paedophilic rape on Lot's primary school kids, because that's one of their practices. Would that make sodom the type of place you'd be happy with God obliterating? In the way mass homosexual gang rapists don't really deserve death (not that all would agree) does it make a difference if their lead offence is a current taboo and social demon?

How far are either group from the concept of 'love thy neighbour'? A bit distanced? Pretty far? Or at the total opposite end of the spectrum which evidences a contempt for their fellow human beings?

It seems you are changing scripture now to suit the current times.

Back then the only real gripe about the sodomites was their manx2 eros. They were demonised for that, and the sentiment seems to pervade today all over the world in various religions. I'm not even sure it was about rape, which puts a different angle on it.

If you feel the stigma applied to manx2 eros in the OT is now totally unacceptable, then I'd agree. God shouldn't really have incinerated them for that, should he?

I was trying to put the incident into a modern social context. But I'm not sure it was merely the incident which doomed them, more the type of society and social mores from which the incident sprang. Not really 'love thy neighbour' type place, was it?

As to what God should or shouldn't do, it's not really the pot's place to tell the potter what he should do with his products. What would you think if some microbes in your body popped up to tell you how unacceptable they felt it was for you to blast some VD bugs with penicillin?

Sodom's activities had reached God's ears. And God wasn't having it. End of.

[SWoll]

drainbrain said:

…and whatever you do don't even think about adopting a similarly intolerant position towards atheism, because….erm, because……erm, because IT'S MY FAITH SUBSTITUTE!

Closet believers….the worst type. Worse even than ex-smokers.

Atheism is not substitute for faith, it is a lack of belief based on there being zero evidence. We don't make any claims for the existence of anything therefore have nothing to prove, that's your job.

Not sure where you're going with the closet believer statement? Care to explain?

[drainbrain]

///ajd said:

He's not being intolerant. You can drink as much whiskey as you want. You can pump it down your kids throats all day long.

What more do you want/expect?
- You want to be able to pump whiskey into other peoples kids at school? Why do you think that is right?
- You want special tax free status for whiskey when other drinks don't have it? Why?

In what way is he a closet believer, and in what way is he the "worst type"?

So is he good with atheism or homosexuality being similarly dealt with? Fine. Keep it in your own house. Brainwash your kids with it. But don't dare bring into schools and ram it down every other kid's throat. etc etc etc. Just keep it locked up in your own house because I won't tolerate it having any public influence, presence or place!!

That's how intolerant bigots behave. And, like gay bashers, they are really running away from the gay in themselves. They've all got a low tolerance for anyone else's beliefs whilst holding theirs up as sacred cows.

[SWoll]

drainbrain said:

alock said:

drainbrain said:

So is the spiritual dimension in this finite life within a 'world full of wonders' something you've outgrown, never attained, yet to explore, or simply doesn't exist?

Can you define what you mean by 'spiritual dimension'?

Yes I'll try. That aspect of human existence that engages with things spiritual.

Well that certainly clears that up doesn't it...

He asked for a definition, not for you to just use the same word in another meaningless sentence.

drainbrain said:

So is he good with atheism or homosexuality being similarly dealt with? Fine. Keep it in your own house. Brainwash your kids with it. But don't dare bring into schools and ram it down every other kid's throat. etc etc etc. Just keep it locked up in your own house because I won't tolerate it having any public influence, presence or place!!

That's how intolerant bigots behave. And, like gay bashers, they are really running away from the gay in themselves. They've all got a low tolerance for anyone else's beliefs whilst holding theirs up as sacred cows.

But neither would ever need to be dealt with in the same way as they aren't a system of beliefs with no supporting evidence that get's preferential treatment, taught in schools as 'fact' and subsidised by the state? You do understand that yes?

Edited by SWoll on Friday 29th July 23:53