Normandy church attack

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jjlynn27

7,935 posts

108 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
andymc said:
jjlynn27 said:
andymc said:
do we have laws in place for internment for those suspected of plotting terrorism?
You want laws in place for someone being suspected of something? Take a second and think about that.
Yes, it was used with IRA
With fantastic results. A lot of people imprisoned and tortured due to faulty intelligence.

wiki said:
The introduction of internment, the way the arrests were carried out, and the abuse of those arrested, led to mass protests and a sharp increase in violence.
Sounds like an excellent way to go. As long as it's just 'them'. Right?

mcelliott

8,626 posts

180 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
fesuvious said:
There will be a backlash.

A Priest had his throat cut, at an altar.

It will not be long before far right leaning groups start targeting mosques, or muslims.

The rights, wrongs and OMG's can be debated all we want. However it won't stop it.

I dread how this will pan out.
I completely agree. As someone who spends a lot of time in France, I genuinely fear for the place. I can honestly see civil war on the streets with tens of thousands dead, in the not too distant future.

Mothersruin

8,573 posts

98 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
fesuvious said:
There will be a backlash.

A Priest had his throat cut, at an altar.

It will not be long before far right leaning groups start targeting mosques, or muslims.

The rights, wrongs and OMG's can be debated all we want. However it won't stop it.

I dread how this will pan out.
I thought the same after a member of the British Armed Forces was executed on the streets of the capital.

I was wrong.

Given that, I don't know what has to happen before anything changes.

Edited by Mothersruin on Tuesday 26th July 20:54

poo at Paul's

14,116 posts

174 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
We lock up a couple of ignoramuses for 12m for throwing a bacon sarnie on the steps of a mosque and the French let this wander about on a tag? fking laughable. They've made their "lit" under Hollande's lefty wker approach and now are reaping what they sowed.


But it is OK France, your authorities are painstakingly searching every OAP bus from the Cotswolds and every Golf full of schoolkids from the UK, so rest assured this sort of thing wont happen again. They've got it covered. Brahahahahahaahahaha

Edited by poo at Paul's on Tuesday 26th July 20:52

Trabi601

4,865 posts

94 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
andymc said:
not if you use the Guantanamo model
That was also known as a successful project and they definitely didn't lock up completely innocent people because they had a beard.

poo at Paul's

14,116 posts

174 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
Trabi601 said:
That was also known as a successful project and they definitely didn't lock up completely innocent people because they had a beard.
For the Brits, if they were "completely innocent", as you say, what the fk were they doing there?

hornetrider

63,161 posts

204 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
mcelliott said:
I completely agree. As someone who spends a lot of time in France, I genuinely fear for the place. I can honestly see civil war on the streets with tens of thousands dead, in the not too distant future.
Give over.

Cobnapint

8,597 posts

150 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
poo at Paul's said:
We lock up a couple of ignoramuses for 12m for throwing a bacon sarnie on the steps of a mosque and the French let this wander about on a tag? fking laughable. They've made their "lit" under Hollande's lefty wker approach and now are reaping what they sowed.


But it is OK France, your authorities are painstakingly searching every OAP bus from the Cotswolds and every Golf full of schoolkids from the UK, so rest assured this sort of thing wont happen again. They've got it covered. Brahahahahahaahahaha
He has rather cocked up.

'Something' has to be done though. Making speeches about solidarity, lighting candles and singing La Marseillaise isn't going to make this go away.

AJS-

15,366 posts

235 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
GoodOlBoy said:
Finlandia said:
Ban religion, even if it could be done like in Soviet, would perhaps not be the best option, but to bring religion into modern time is a must. Not that long ago christian priests advocated the burning of witches, that is no longer the case, so it can be done.
It can't be done with Islam.
It can as evidenced by the millions of Muslims who are not violent and supremacist. Even the shocking statistics cited above can be read as encouraging.

3/4 of British Muslims don't sympathetise with the Charlie Hebdo attackers, 48% don't think homosexuality should be illegal, etc etc.

That represents huge numbers of Muslims who are apparently quite happy to live in an essentially secular western country despite most mainstream interpretations of their religion being implacably against it.

The difficulty is identifying and isolating the supremacist and potentially violent ones. And that is currently rendered not just difficult but absolutely impossible by the eagerness of many to jump up and down crying racism and bigotry any time there is any attempt to discuss the elements of Islam which lead to this sort of violence.

I believe this is slowly and hesitatingly changing, and welcome this.

andymc

7,334 posts

206 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
jjlynn27 said:
andymc said:
jjlynn27 said:
andymc said:
do we have laws in place for internment for those suspected of plotting terrorism?
You want laws in place for someone being suspected of something? Take a second and think about that.
Yes, it was used with IRA
With fantastic results. A lot of people imprisoned and tortured due to faulty intelligence.

wiki said:
The introduction of internment, the way the arrests were carried out, and the abuse of those arrested, led to mass protests and a sharp increase in violence.
Sounds like an excellent way to go. As long as it's just 'them'. Right?
and your suggestion is? More mosques and talks on integration?

silent ninja

863 posts

99 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
So opinion seems to be that there will be backlash and retaliation. Against who? I don't know a single Muslim who condones murder, let alone attacking a helpless priest for no bloody reason except to inflame communities.

So the reaction will be against normal folk who are Muslims...which will in turn alienate more people and make them soft targets for groups like ISIS. Extraordinary rendition, unlawful imprisonment, torture, Guantanamo, illegal wars...the list is endless of actions against normal people that has had resulted in more extremism and hostility. It never ends well. The climate since 9/11 has been tense and one of exclusion of Muslims - collective blame if you will .

In summary, it seems ISIS are achieving their aims. The hysteria on PH is palpable and is a good indicator of this.

andymc

7,334 posts

206 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
silent ninja said:
So opinion seems to be that there will be backlash and retaliation. Against who? I don't know a single Muslim who condones murder, let alone attacking a helpless priest for no bloody reason except to inflame communities.

So the reaction will be against normal folk who are Muslims...which will in turn alienate more people and make them soft targets for groups like ISIS. Extraordinary rendition, unlawful imprisonment, torture, Guantanamo, illegal wars...the list is endless of actions against normal people that has had resulted in more extremism and hostility. It never ends well.

In summary, it seems ISIS are achieving their aims. The hysteria on PH is palpable and is a good indicator of this.
What it does prove is the great integration experiment hasn't worked, the 2 communities are like oil and water

poo at Paul's

14,116 posts

174 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
silent ninja said:
So opinion seems to be that there will be backlash and retaliation.
I cannot see that happening, the French don't and never did have the balls to stand up to aggressors.

It's just their way.

silent ninja

863 posts

99 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
andymc said:
What it does prove is the great integration experiment hasn't worked, the 2 communities are like oil and water
So who's attacking Turkey, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Indonesia...they seem to suffer the same problems with ISIS? Maybe integration is an easy way for you to categorise this complex issue, proverbial head in the sand, because it means "us" and "them" and you were always distrustful of "them" anyway?

rich85uk

3,312 posts

178 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
poo at Paul's said:
We lock up a couple of ignoramuses for 12m for throwing a bacon sarnie on the steps of a mosque and the French let this wander about on a tag? fking laughable. They've made their "lit" under Hollande's lefty wker approach and now are reaping what they sowed.

Edited by poo at Paul's on Tuesday 26th July 20:52
Really highlights just how far away Europe is from having any sort of chance of fighting terrorism. You can attempt to travel to Syria twice (detained in Germany and Turkey) to join a terrorist group OR throw bacon sandwiches at a mosque and get 12 months in prison

I wonder which offence sounds like the offender could be at greater risk to the public and a stronger sentence is needed? Oh and to give us a clue one of them repeatedly disabled his tag including today when he went out and carried out a terrorist attack

Once again France completely fks up and let's a man under surveillance and on tag do this, how is they appear to be so far behind MI5/MI6 etc

swisstoni

16,855 posts

278 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
Hmmm. I wonder how many 'holidaymakers' we have walking about in the UK?

andymc

7,334 posts

206 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
silent ninja said:
andymc said:
What it does prove is the great integration experiment hasn't worked, the 2 communities are like oil and water
So who's attacking Turkey, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Indonesia...they seem to suffer the same problems with ISIS? Maybe integration is an easy way for you to categorise this complex issue, proverbial head in the sand, because it means "us" and "them" and you were always distrustful of "them" anyway?
I'm not really interested in other countries issues, we have enough going on here

TeamD

4,913 posts

231 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
rich85uk said:
Once again France completely fks up and let's a man under surveillance and on tag do this, how is they appear to be so far behind MI5/MI6 etc
It could have been lunchtime?

Halmyre

11,148 posts

138 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
poo at Paul's said:
Trabi601 said:
That was also known as a successful project and they definitely didn't lock up completely innocent people because they had a beard.
For the Brits, if they were "completely innocent", as you say, what the fk were they doing there?
What we need is some of procedure where people accused of crimes are put through a procedure by which we can determine whether or not they actually did the crime...


KarlMac

4,457 posts

140 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
poo at Paul's said:
silent ninja said:
So opinion seems to be that there will be backlash and retaliation.
I cannot see that happening, the French don't and never did have the balls to stand up to aggressors.

It's just their way.
Erm...




All we're seeing is atrocities move West. What is happening is nothing new to the ME. Multiple bonkers government policies from different states coming home to roost.
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