Normandy church attack

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Alpinestars

13,954 posts

243 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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andymc said:
I'm not really interested in other countries issues, we have enough going on here

Didn't realise France was part of England.

I think the point was that IS knows no barriers vis a vis nationality.

Smokehead

7,703 posts

227 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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I can see the the predominately Catholic french hairy arsed types taking great exception to this attack on the Church

BigLion

1,497 posts

98 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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AJS- said:
GoodOlBoy said:
Finlandia said:
Ban religion, even if it could be done like in Soviet, would perhaps not be the best option, but to bring religion into modern time is a must. Not that long ago christian priests advocated the burning of witches, that is no longer the case, so it can be done.
It can't be done with Islam.
It can as evidenced by the millions of Muslims who are not violent and supremacist. Even the shocking statistics cited above can be read as encouraging.

3/4 of British Muslims don't sympathetise with the Charlie Hebdo attackers, 48% don't think homosexuality should be illegal, etc etc.

That represents huge numbers of Muslims who are apparently quite happy to live in an essentially secular western country despite most mainstream interpretations of their religion being implacably against it.

The difficulty is identifying and isolating the supremacist and potentially violent ones. And that is currently rendered not just difficult but absolutely impossible by the eagerness of many to jump up and down crying racism and bigotry any time there is any attempt to discuss the elements of Islam which lead to this sort of violence.

I believe this is slowly and hesitatingly changing, and welcome this.
You can turd polish all you like, but there is a really big gap in values and it will only get wider before it gets better. There are a high number of Muslims in the UK just don't agree with western values.

100,000 who ADMIT to supporting suicide bombers.
2,000,000 who wouldn't tell the authorities if someone they knew planned to fight our troops I. Syria etc.

That last number is equivalent to a full Old Trafford multiplied by 30 or put another way near the same as EIGHT Leicester sized cities.

My parents were immigrants to this country and when I mentioned the stats to them, my mum said that the UK is a free country, if you don't like it then sod off to Saudi Arabia or Syria!!!

My mums honest view of 60 years living in and around various parts of India and what is now Pakistan is that the people of Islam don't want to integrate, they want to takeover wherever you are. Her acid test is, go build a temple (of an alternative religion) in Saudi Arabia and see what happens.

Whilst her view is politically incorrect, the sentiment is now shared across many immigrant groups who are not Muslims - hence why many Hindus, sikhs, Irish etc. voted leave in brexit as they have had enough. I speak to so many people are it's the same story.

I feel sorry for the decent Muslims who support western values and would shop terrorists, but when you have EIGHT times Leicester city sized population who do not share the same approach then you are in the minority.


Trabi601

4,865 posts

94 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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Halmyre said:
poo at Paul's said:
Trabi601 said:
That was also known as a successful project and they definitely didn't lock up completely innocent people because they had a beard.
For the Brits, if they were "completely innocent", as you say, what the fk were they doing there?
What we need is some of procedure where people accused of crimes are put through a procedure by which we can determine whether or not they actually did the crime...
Of course, but many people here seem to be condoning locking people up because you think they may have thought about making a bomb or something like that.

It appears to be acceptable to lock up Muslims based on suspicion they may be a bit dodgy, but I'm not sure they'd be too happy if that was extended to white British people.

andymc

7,334 posts

206 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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I'd have no issue with looking up white Brits if they'd been radicalized

MarshPhantom

9,658 posts

136 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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KarlMac said:
poo at Paul's said:
silent ninja said:
So opinion seems to be that there will be backlash and retaliation.
I cannot see that happening, the French don't and never did have the balls to stand up to aggressors.

It's just their way.
Erm...




All we're seeing is atrocities move West. What is happening is nothing new to the ME. Multiple bonkers government policies from different states coming home to roost.









otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
andymc said:
What it does prove is the great integration experiment hasn't worked, the 2 communities are like oil and water
I've known lots of people of Muslim heritage and varying degrees of religiosity who were fully integrated.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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The way our societies work in the 21st century is very different to even the mid 20th century, so I'm not sure how looking back through history helps in solving our current problems. I think the authorities are really struggling to cope with how new technology and communication is facilitating people set on causing harm.

The odds are very much stacked against the good guys, this is especially so in countries that don't have such a great deal of experience of organised terrorism in their recent past.

The UK has had a very recent terrorist faction that probably means we are far better prepared than most on mainland Europe to understand the methods required to detect and protect. But even with this infrastructure in place its impossible to prevent every incident.

The method of instilling terror is changing to one that is much harder to detect and prevent, intelligence against small cells of people who wish to do harm is much harder to utilise, even with people already on the radar there isn't the man power to maintain a proper watch on these people. It may be the only way to allow the manpower required to look for new problem people is to take the known potential problem people off the streets, as unpalatable as that sounds.

France has been targeted directly more than any other European state because of their history, they are enemy number 1 for these people.

Unfortunately I don't see this situation improving anytime soon, I see it getting worse, I hope the people of France never get to the stage where they can no longer cope with the distress of these attacks. If that does happen I'm not sure what France will look like.

ABZ RS6

749 posts

102 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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otolith said:
I've known lots of people of Muslim heritage and varying degrees of religiosity who were fully integrated.
And from growing up in the NW of England I know st loads that are not and never will be.

As someone said earlier, they want the benefits (literally in many cases) of western society but also to be allowed to exist in their own little backward thinking worlds and seek to ever drag back our values so as to appease their medieval beliefs.

Finlandia

7,803 posts

230 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
It has to be done, one way or another, or much worse will come.
I suspect what we're seeing now is the beginning of the "much worse" you refer to.
What really will set things alight is when neo nazis/nationalists/fed up people start attacking muslims, IS recruitment will go through the roof, more violence and more attacks in more and more barbaric ways will ensue.



greygoose

8,225 posts

194 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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ABZ RS6 said:
As someone said earlier, they want the benefits (literally in many cases) of western society but also to be allowed to exist in their own little backward thinking worlds and seek to ever drag back our values so as to appease their medieval beliefs.
Sounds just like Anders Breivik, nutters in all communities.

gruffalo

7,509 posts

225 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
ABZ RS6 said:
And from growing up in the NW of England I know st loads that are not and never will be.

As someone said earlier, they want the benefits (literally in many cases) of western society but also to be allowed to exist in their own little backward thinking worlds and seek to ever drag back our values so as to appease their medieval beliefs.
And from the Southern counties I find much the same, but very split along educational lines. Our friends who happen to be Muslim, who number a few but are professional people don't really attend the mosques and are as British as anyone I know. Then you have those that live in the very Muslim parts of High Wycombe who seem to be determined to bring the poverty and attitudes they profess to flea with them and not move forward and integrate.


ABZ RS6

749 posts

102 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
greygoose said:
Sounds just like Anders Breivik, nutters in all communities.
Just the facts as can be found in many northern English town any day of the week if you care to visit one.

AJS-

15,366 posts

235 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
BigLion said:
You can turd polish all you like, but there is a really big gap in values and it will only get wider before it gets better. There are a high number of Muslims in the UK just don't agree with western values.

100,000 who ADMIT to supporting suicide bombers.
2,000,000 who wouldn't tell the authorities if someone they knew planned to fight our troops I. Syria etc.

That last number is equivalent to a full Old Trafford multiplied by 30 or put another way near the same as EIGHT Leicester sized cities.

My parents were immigrants to this country and when I mentioned the stats to them, my mum said that the UK is a free country, if you don't like it then sod off to Saudi Arabia or Syria!!!

My mums honest view of 60 years living in and around various parts of India and what is now Pakistan is that the people of Islam don't want to integrate, they want to takeover wherever you are. Her acid test is, go build a temple (of an alternative religion) in Saudi Arabia and see what happens.

Whilst her view is politically incorrect, the sentiment is now shared across many immigrant groups who are not Muslims - hence why many Hindus, sikhs, Irish etc. voted leave in brexit as they have had enough. I speak to so many people are it's the same story.

I feel sorry for the decent Muslims who support western values and would shop terrorists, but when you have EIGHT times Leicester city sized population who do not share the same approach then you are in the minority.
Never thought I'd be accused of defending Islam on here, haha.

The point was that there is some hope because there are Muslims who don't believe this stuff. It's a matter of identifying the problem and finding out how to overcome it.

The only alternative is to get rid of Muslims all together which is what Spain did, but not something that any right minded person would suggest today.

greygoose

8,225 posts

194 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
ABZ RS6 said:
greygoose said:
Sounds just like Anders Breivik, nutters in all communities.
Just the facts as can be found in many northern English town any day of the week if you care to visit one.
I spent half my life in a northern town, just like the poor suburbs of France what is needed is to get the second generation immigrant communities in jobs rather than being unemployed and having no stake in anything. It isn't an easy process but is far better than suggestions of internment camps to alienate people further.

irocfan

40,156 posts

189 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
Turquoise said:
It may well be.

But education is where unfortunately a generational problem really comes to light. A great many of today's generation be they Muslim or otherwise simply aren't interested. They want short cuts to wealth and a consumer lifestyle, and they want it now. When, for some Muslims at least, they don't attain that, they become disenfranchised and susceptible to being radicalised.
it is interesting that the common mantra seems to be "educate, educate, educate" yet the recent atrocities in Bangladesh were commmitted by (among others) doctors and people from wealthy backgrounds - hardly poorly educated people, poor people.

AJS-

15,366 posts

235 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
They were all doctors and engineers this time last year, so surely they wouldn't have any trouble getting jobs if they wanted them?

There's something to be said for integration, but only if they want to integrate. In quite a few cases terrorist acts are carried out by people with education, good employment prospects and apparently fairly well integrated before they choose to follow the nasty parts of their religion.

vsonix

3,858 posts

162 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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snorky782 said:
Why? These are apparently escaped criminals. There's bad stuff happening all the time all over the world, the past month is no different, just the amount of media coverage it's getting.
^ absolutely, Project Fear in full effect still.

dandarez

13,246 posts

282 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
T5XARV said:
bhstewie said:
What's the point of tagging someone who travelled to Syria to fight, got sent back, got put in jail for it, then got let out on a tag but is allowed out unsupervised between 8.30am and 12.30pm? confused

This one's a new low even by current standards, utterly abhorrent.
Someone has the blood of an elderly priest on their hands.
Many apparently said that he should not have been released, some argued to the hilt about it.
But guess what? Do-gooders win every time! (They are not just in France, 'do-gooders' are more than plentiful on these shores too!)
They forced the compromise that he be tagged, allowing this scum to be released into harm's way (not for him) for the poor buggers like the priest.

Do-gooders abound in today's world. They were something rarely, if ever, heard of in days-gone-by.
fking liberalisers, who think even the devil in disguise can be transformed into some sort of holy goodliness, in spite of any most-evil past-doings.

Do-gooders, the ones who account for so many 'lessons will be learned' after tragic events.

So, why does it carry on?
Because do-gooders are never, ever, held to account for their actions.

How the fk they sleep at night I don't know.
Very probably, soundly.
Perhaps it is not a harsh thing to say it's a pity some of them wake up in the morning?

gruffalo

7,509 posts

225 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
greygoose said:
ABZ RS6 said:
greygoose said:
Sounds just like Anders Breivik, nutters in all communities.
Just the facts as can be found in many northern English town any day of the week if you care to visit one.
I spent half my life in a northern town, just like the poor suburbs of France what is needed is to get the second generation immigrant communities in jobs rather than being unemployed and having no stake in anything. It isn't an easy process but is far better than suggestions of internment camps to alienate people further.
Jobs are of course important but the problem in my local is the second generation immigrants who seem to he heavily criminalised running prostitution and drug cartels while attending prayers every Friday and being on the face of it devoutly Muslim and completely refuse to mix outside their own culture even though they are the ultimate corruption of that culture.

Jobs are available but crime is easier and pays better and they are almost beyond the law due to the police being so frightened of be accused of racism. For Christ sake when someone gets arrested for terrorism charges the police get criticism for not consulting the community elders before making the arrest.

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