Normandy church attack
Discussion
greygoose said:
gruffalo said:
Jobs are of course important but the problem in my local is the second generation immigrants who seem to he heavily criminalised running prostitution and drug cartels while attending prayers every Friday and being on the face of it devoutly Muslim and completely refuse to mix outside their own culture even though they are the ultimate corruption of that culture.
Jobs are available but crime is easier and pays better and they are almost beyond the law due to the police being so frightened of be accused of racism. For Christ sake when someone gets arrested for terrorism charges the police get criticism for not consulting the community elders before making the arrest.
The same is true for poor white, black communities too, look at the way traveller sites are treated as no go areas. The government cares for the city of London and that is about it as far as I can see.Jobs are available but crime is easier and pays better and they are almost beyond the law due to the police being so frightened of be accused of racism. For Christ sake when someone gets arrested for terrorism charges the police get criticism for not consulting the community elders before making the arrest.
Colonial said:
Why is this worse and worthy of 4 times as many posts as 17 disabled people murdered in a mass killing in Japan by a non-religious Japanese man?
Oh. Think I just answered my own question.
Stop being so sanctimonious.Oh. Think I just answered my own question.
In addition to all the other replies that have put you straight, France is 26 miles off Dover. Anything closer to home that we can relate to and may be in the firing line for ourselves, is going to be pored over more than a one off incident on the other side of the world.
BigLion said:
Think I'm finished we these types of threads now as what more is left to discuss - I will walk away with the stat that 100,000 British Muslims support suicide bombers and 2 million British Muslims wouldn't shop someone they knew was going to fight in Syria.
Saddens me that the small minority of decent Muslims won't be able to get a fair hearing above that majority - but whatever your interpretation of Islam it looks like the majority have a different view, one that is at direct odds with all the values we hold so dear in the West.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics. Saddens me that the small minority of decent Muslims won't be able to get a fair hearing above that majority - but whatever your interpretation of Islam it looks like the majority have a different view, one that is at direct odds with all the values we hold so dear in the West.
Non muslim people are at least twice as likely to think that targeting innocent civilians in some circumstances is justified. Gallup.
So people justify many many more pages of "discussion" on this killing vs the Japanese killing because this is a regular occurrence, ie, by supporters of ISIS. How long is the thread on ISIS killings in Saudi, The ME, Pakistan, Afghanistan etc? Maybe people aren't bothered about other countries as one poster has already said, but who failed to understand that France is not part of England.
Do people really not get the inconsistency and levels of hypocrisy?
Or perhaps there's a more rational explanation I'm missing?
Alpinestars said:
Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Non muslim people are at least twice as likely to think that targeting innocent civilians in some circumstances is justified. Gallup.
So people justify many many more pages of "discussion" on this killing vs the Japanese killing because this is a regular occurrence, ie, by supporters of ISIS. How long is the thread on ISIS killings in Saudi, The ME, Pakistan, Afghanistan etc? Maybe people aren't bothered about other countries as one poster has already said, but who failed to understand that France is not part of England.
Do people really not get the inconsistency and levels of hypocrisy?
Or perhaps there's a more rational explanation I'm missing?
Yes there is. See my post above yours.Non muslim people are at least twice as likely to think that targeting innocent civilians in some circumstances is justified. Gallup.
So people justify many many more pages of "discussion" on this killing vs the Japanese killing because this is a regular occurrence, ie, by supporters of ISIS. How long is the thread on ISIS killings in Saudi, The ME, Pakistan, Afghanistan etc? Maybe people aren't bothered about other countries as one poster has already said, but who failed to understand that France is not part of England.
Do people really not get the inconsistency and levels of hypocrisy?
Or perhaps there's a more rational explanation I'm missing?
26 miles...
Alpinestars said:
Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Non muslim people are at least twice as likely to think that targeting innocent civilians in some circumstances is justified. Gallup.
So people justify many many more pages of "discussion" on this killing vs the Japanese killing because this is a regular occurrence, ie, by supporters of ISIS. How long is the thread on ISIS killings in Saudi, The ME, Pakistan, Afghanistan etc? Maybe people aren't bothered about other countries as one poster has already said, but who failed to understand that France is not part of England.
Do people really not get the inconsistency and levels of hypocrisy?
Or perhaps there's a more rational explanation I'm missing?
I honestly don't know if what Biglion has quoted are lies damn lies and statistics, or simply the uncomfortable truth. I'd hope for the former, but I cannot be sure, and if you are honest neither can you. Non muslim people are at least twice as likely to think that targeting innocent civilians in some circumstances is justified. Gallup.
So people justify many many more pages of "discussion" on this killing vs the Japanese killing because this is a regular occurrence, ie, by supporters of ISIS. How long is the thread on ISIS killings in Saudi, The ME, Pakistan, Afghanistan etc? Maybe people aren't bothered about other countries as one poster has already said, but who failed to understand that France is not part of England.
Do people really not get the inconsistency and levels of hypocrisy?
Or perhaps there's a more rational explanation I'm missing?
I think I get what you are driving at in your last paragraph, but I think to be hinting at some sort of evidence of racism, hypocrisy or double standards is wrong. People tend to be more concerned about stuff that is closer to home. So yes, attacks in France on an 84 year old priest holding mass in a church elicit a stronger reaction than the deaths of many in the ME.
It has nothing to do with the colour of skin or the creed they follow. Its just geography and the perception of who your neighbours are.
If your next door neighbour is burgled it makes you think more about your own security rather more than if you read in the paper about a burglary in a town 200 miles away.
andymadmak said:
I honestly don't know if what Biglion has quoted are lies damn lies and statistics, or simply the uncomfortable truth. I'd hope for the former, but I cannot be sure, and if you are honest neither can you.
I think I get what you are driving at in your last paragraph, but I think to be hinting at some sort of evidence of racism, hypocrisy or double standards is wrong. People tend to be more concerned about stuff that is closer to home. So yes, attacks in France on an 84 year old priest holding mass in a church elicit a stronger reaction than the deaths of many in the ME.
It has nothing to do with the colour of skin or the creed they follow. Its just geography and the perception of who your neighbours are.
If your next door neighbour is burgled it makes you think more about your own security rather more than if you read in the paper about a burglary in a town 200 miles away.
Yet both Orlando nightclub shootings (c4250 miles away) got more replies and comments than the Syrian issues (c3200 miles away). Doesn't really work around distance does it?I think I get what you are driving at in your last paragraph, but I think to be hinting at some sort of evidence of racism, hypocrisy or double standards is wrong. People tend to be more concerned about stuff that is closer to home. So yes, attacks in France on an 84 year old priest holding mass in a church elicit a stronger reaction than the deaths of many in the ME.
It has nothing to do with the colour of skin or the creed they follow. Its just geography and the perception of who your neighbours are.
If your next door neighbour is burgled it makes you think more about your own security rather more than if you read in the paper about a burglary in a town 200 miles away.
Alpinestars said:
Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Non muslim people are at least twice as likely to think that targeting innocent civilians in some circumstances is justified. Gallup.
So people justify many many more pages of "discussion" on this killing vs the Japanese killing because this is a regular occurrence, ie, by supporters of ISIS. How long is the thread on ISIS killings in Saudi, The ME, Pakistan, Afghanistan etc? Maybe people aren't bothered about other countries as one poster has already said, but who failed to understand that France is not part of England.
Do people really not get the inconsistency and levels of hypocrisy?
Or perhaps there's a more rational explanation I'm missing?
The thread about Syria is 264 pages long, it's five years old and still on page 1. If people started a thread every single time something happened in the ME then it may as well become the Middle East sub forum.Non muslim people are at least twice as likely to think that targeting innocent civilians in some circumstances is justified. Gallup.
So people justify many many more pages of "discussion" on this killing vs the Japanese killing because this is a regular occurrence, ie, by supporters of ISIS. How long is the thread on ISIS killings in Saudi, The ME, Pakistan, Afghanistan etc? Maybe people aren't bothered about other countries as one poster has already said, but who failed to understand that France is not part of England.
Do people really not get the inconsistency and levels of hypocrisy?
Or perhaps there's a more rational explanation I'm missing?
BigLion said:
Think I'm finished we these types of threads now as what more is left to discuss - I will walk away with the stat that 100,000 British Muslims support suicide bombers and 2 million British Muslims wouldn't shop someone they knew was going to fight in Syria.
Saddens me that the small minority of decent Muslims won't be able to get a fair hearing above that majority - but whatever your interpretation of Islam it looks like the majority have a different view, one that is at direct odds with all the values we hold so dear in the West.
Im trying to find the evidence you provided to back up those stats but i would say something fishy about 66% of UK Muslims not shopping someone if they went to fight in Syria. Saddens me that the small minority of decent Muslims won't be able to get a fair hearing above that majority - but whatever your interpretation of Islam it looks like the majority have a different view, one that is at direct odds with all the values we hold so dear in the West.
I suspect the evidence is skewed alot, and I think you got your words wrong.
Its sad that the vast majority of Muslims wont get a fair hearing above the minority of Muslims who use Islam as a front to commit terror acts and its those who go against our values we hold so dear in the West.
Alpinestars said:
BigLion said:
Think I'm finished we these types of threads now as what more is left to discuss - I will walk away with the stat that 100,000 British Muslims support suicide bombers and 2 million British Muslims wouldn't shop someone they knew was going to fight in Syria.
Saddens me that the small minority of decent Muslims won't be able to get a fair hearing above that majority - but whatever your interpretation of Islam it looks like the majority have a different view, one that is at direct odds with all the values we hold so dear in the West.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics. Saddens me that the small minority of decent Muslims won't be able to get a fair hearing above that majority - but whatever your interpretation of Islam it looks like the majority have a different view, one that is at direct odds with all the values we hold so dear in the West.
Non muslim people are at least twice as likely to think that targeting innocent civilians in some circumstances is justified. Gallup.
So people justify many many more pages of "discussion" on this killing vs the Japanese killing because this is a regular occurrence, ie, by supporters of ISIS. How long is the thread on ISIS killings in Saudi, The ME, Pakistan, Afghanistan etc? Maybe people aren't bothered about other countries as one poster has already said, but who failed to understand that France is not part of England.
Do people really not get the inconsistency and levels of hypocrisy?
Or perhaps there's a more rational explanation I'm missing?
Oakey said:
The thread about Syria is 264 pages long, it's five years old and still on page 1. If people started a thread every single time something happened in the ME then it may as well become the Middle East sub forum.
What about Pakistan etc. Saudi? That's probably the most significant symbolic attack by IS to date. Are you really suggesting that the more attacks there are in Europe, the less threads we will have on it, and/or dissection will be consolidated into a single thread?
snorky782 said:
Yet both Orlando nightclub shootings (c4250 miles away) got more replies and comments than the Syrian issues (c3200 miles away). Doesn't really work around distance does it?
Maybe it's more to do with the fact that many people from the UK travel to and holiday/live in the US and Europe but very few are considering Allepo as a holiday destination this year so it seems much less relevant to them.I suspect also that there is a certain amount of let them kill each other all they like as long as it's not us attitude, very much like there is apathy in the non black community with regards to black on black violence closer to home.
Unfortunately it's just human nature, the same as i doubt that many people in China give a stuff about the priest yesterday, they are more bothered with the floods at home.
It is what it is.
WinstonWolf said:
People who believe in sky fairies fail the rationality test. I'm suspicious of anyone devout, whichever book they subscribe to.
Yep that's fair enough. But the poll included atheists, agnostics etc. who were twice as likely as Muslims to support the killing of innocent people.
Alpinestars said:
Turquoise said:
Yes there is. See my post above yours.
26 miles...
Really?26 miles...
I suspect this is a small factor.
With free travel within the EU, a lot of the attacks being from home grown jihadists who don't have to travel at all, distance is really not an issue.
Challo said:
BigLion said:
Think I'm finished we these types of threads now as what more is left to discuss - I will walk away with the stat that 100,000 British Muslims support suicide bombers and 2 million British Muslims wouldn't shop someone they knew was going to fight in Syria.
Saddens me that the small minority of decent Muslims won't be able to get a fair hearing above that majority - but whatever your interpretation of Islam it looks like the majority have a different view, one that is at direct odds with all the values we hold so dear in the West.
Im trying to find the evidence you provided to back up those stats but i would say something fishy about 66% of UK Muslims not shopping someone if they went to fight in Syria. Saddens me that the small minority of decent Muslims won't be able to get a fair hearing above that majority - but whatever your interpretation of Islam it looks like the majority have a different view, one that is at direct odds with all the values we hold so dear in the West.
I suspect the evidence is skewed alot, and I think you got your words wrong.
Its sad that the vast majority of Muslims wont get a fair hearing above the minority of Muslims who use Islam as a front to commit terror acts and its those who go against our values we hold so dear in the West.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr... has some useful details about the poll.
Like the fact that 34% of Muslims surveyed would report someone, but only 30% of the control group (randomly selected across the country & of all or no faiths) would do so. So if you believe this survey, Muslims are more likely to report than others?
Edited to add.
The survey said 4% of Muslims surveyed are sympathetic to suicide bombing - extrapolated to 100,000 Muslims in the UK. However, 1% of the control group also had the same view - or 600,000 people in the UK. ( http://blog.policy.manchester.ac.uk/ethnicity/2016... )
Think this, perhaps, highlights the unreliability of this small survey?
Edited by rscott on Wednesday 27th July 09:12
Edited by rscott on Wednesday 27th July 09:12
Alpinestars said:
WinstonWolf said:
People who believe in sky fairies fail the rationality test. I'm suspicious of anyone devout, whichever book they subscribe to.
Yep that's fair enough. But the poll included atheists, agnostics etc. who were twice as likely as Muslims to support the killing of innocent people.
Something is very wrong in the world when you think killing for your god is the right choice, this should be challenged in all religion.
Budflicker said:
Maybe it's more to do with the fact that many people from the UK travel to and holiday/live in the US and Europe but very few are considering Allepo as a holiday destination this year so it seems much less relevant to them.
I suspect also that there is a certain amount of let them kill each other all they like as long as it's not us attitude, very much like there is apathy in the non black community with regards to black on black violence closer to home.
Unfortunately it's just human nature, the same as i doubt that many people in China give a stuff about the priest yesterday, they are more bothered with the floods at home.
It is what it is.
Go on holiday to Turkey or Cyprus as many Brits do (did in the case of Turkey) amd you're pretty damn close to Syria. Although I tend to agree on the other stuff. The US matters because they speak English (of sorts), Europe because it's just over there. It doesn't alter the fact that these threads are much more popular when the atrocity is an ISIS one, than when it's not though. The two Orlando nightclub shooting threads are good examples of that. I suspect also that there is a certain amount of let them kill each other all they like as long as it's not us attitude, very much like there is apathy in the non black community with regards to black on black violence closer to home.
Unfortunately it's just human nature, the same as i doubt that many people in China give a stuff about the priest yesterday, they are more bothered with the floods at home.
It is what it is.
Alpinestars said:
Turquoise said:
Yes there is. See my post above yours.
26 miles...
Really?26 miles...
I suspect this is a small factor.
With free travel within the EU, a lot of the attacks being from home grown jihadists who don't have to travel at all, distance is really not an issue.
France is our neighbour. Many of us have been there. Their way of life and many other aspects of the country are similar to ours. When an atrocity occurs there we can relate more and see that it could've been us.
Europeans are going to care more about terrorism in Europe on their doorstep than places they've never set foot. You can cry about the injustice of it if you wish but that's the way it is, and although you may not admit it, I'm sure deep down can understand why it's the case.
snorky782 said:
Go on holiday to Turkey or Cyprus as many Brits do (did in the case of Turkey) amd you're pretty damn close to Syria. Although I tend to agree on the other stuff. The US matters because they speak English (of sorts), Europe because it's just over there. It doesn't alter the fact that these threads are much more popular when the atrocity is an ISIS one, than when it's not though. The two Orlando nightclub shooting threads are good examples of that.
I don't think it's unusual or surprising when threads about Islamic terrorism in Europe generate more discussion than unrelated incidents in Japan or the USA.Many countries in Europe, including the UK, have large Muslim populations and have suffered Islamist Terrorist attacks.
Add to that the large number of foiled terror plots in the UK and elsewhere in Europe, the thousands of European Muslims either returning from , or trying to go to Syria, the recent mass uncontrolled Immigration into Europe. It's only to be expected that interest is high.
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