Normandy church attack
Discussion
snorky782 said:
I keep coming back to the two separate Orlando nightclub shootings though. One had, quite rightly, massive coverage. However, the second, which was no more than an every day mass shooting in the US still got coverage on the main news bulletins, even though there were 80 recorded mass shootings between the two in Orlando and none of those made the news
The first received plenty of coverage for it being targeted at a minority and had terror links, the second one probably due to it happening at a youth gathering and close to the first in time, location and way of attack.Terminator X said:
fatboy18 said:
SilverSpur said:
I'd just like to say a word or two of praise for the French police officers. No trials or years in cushy prison for these two fekers, straight to hell. Wished our police had done the same to Drummer Rigby's killers.
Could not agree more 
TX.
snorky782 said:
Finlandia said:
I give you that.
Then again a massacre of that sort would have plenty of coverage regardless, a guy walking the streets shooting at everything that moves.
Breivik had plenty more coverage in Sweden than any of the recent attacks in Europe, but they in turn have more coverage than the recent attacks in Afghanistan and Iraq.
The closer the terror attacks happen and especially if they are orchestrated by the same organisation, the more they get covered, generally.
I keep coming back to the two separate Orlando nightclub shootings though. One had, quite rightly, massive coverage. However, the second, which was no more than an every day mass shooting in the US still got coverage on the main news bulletins, even though there were 80 recorded mass shootings between the two in Orlando and none of those made the newsThen again a massacre of that sort would have plenty of coverage regardless, a guy walking the streets shooting at everything that moves.
Breivik had plenty more coverage in Sweden than any of the recent attacks in Europe, but they in turn have more coverage than the recent attacks in Afghanistan and Iraq.
The closer the terror attacks happen and especially if they are orchestrated by the same organisation, the more they get covered, generally.
As much as one random running amok is abhorrent, a loosely affiliated network of nutters - no matter how ramshackle or tenuously linked - is always going to create greater concern and over a wider area, and for a greater period of time. There is a very simply logic to this, so it should not need explaining or justifying.
andymadmak said:
I see your point. You would have to take it up with the people who manage the media as to why they went on about one of them more than the other. If I were to guess, I'd say that its possibly to do with one being part of a global terror campaign by a defined group and the other being Billy Bob gone nuts. I am sure you can see that the difference in motive behind the shootings is going to define the importance of the story to some degree- even if the actual results of the incidents are broadly similar (i.e., loss of life)
I know that wasn't aimed at me, but I think geography can be refuted and Snorky has done that with his post. So if it's not geography (and my own view on this is that geography might play a very small part), why do the ISIS attacks that result in the most lives being taken receive less PH pages? I'm narrowing it down to PH rather than the wider press.Alpinestars said:
why do the ISIS attacks that result in the most lives being taken receive less PH pages?
PH is a Western site, with a majority of Western members, people tend to relate more to the people that are like oneself. If PH was a ME site with mainly ME members, there would be miles and miles of discussion about terrorism in Afghanistan and Iraq, but hardly any about Europe.Racist, maybe, but that is how we are as a species.
AJS- said:
It can as evidenced by the millions of Muslims who are not violent and supremacist. Even the shocking statistics cited above can be read as encouraging.
3/4 of British Muslims don't sympathetise with the Charlie Hebdo attackers, 48% don't think homosexuality should be illegal, etc etc.
That represents huge numbers of Muslims who are apparently quite happy to live in an essentially secular western country despite most mainstream interpretations of their religion being implacably against it.
The difficulty is identifying and isolating the supremacist and potentially violent ones. And that is currently rendered not just difficult but absolutely impossible by the eagerness of many to jump up and down crying racism and bigotry any time there is any attempt to discuss the elements of Islam which lead to this sort of violence.
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A fair summation.3/4 of British Muslims don't sympathetise with the Charlie Hebdo attackers, 48% don't think homosexuality should be illegal, etc etc.
That represents huge numbers of Muslims who are apparently quite happy to live in an essentially secular western country despite most mainstream interpretations of their religion being implacably against it.
The difficulty is identifying and isolating the supremacist and potentially violent ones. And that is currently rendered not just difficult but absolutely impossible by the eagerness of many to jump up and down crying racism and bigotry any time there is any attempt to discuss the elements of Islam which lead to this sort of violence.
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The delusional multi-culturists need to realise that in its most radical form Islam is incompatible with western democracy, but that does not mean that all Muslims are. Rather than airily dismissing this as a "handful of extremists" recognise the ideology that is justifying these violent acts. Wahhabism, and similar sects, will never integrate into western society and continuing to import more will only lead to ever more violent conflict. In such a conflict the well integrated Muslim citizen will suffer just as much as the rest of us.
Alpinestars said:
andymadmak said:
I see your point. You would have to take it up with the people who manage the media as to why they went on about one of them more than the other. If I were to guess, I'd say that its possibly to do with one being part of a global terror campaign by a defined group and the other being Billy Bob gone nuts. I am sure you can see that the difference in motive behind the shootings is going to define the importance of the story to some degree- even if the actual results of the incidents are broadly similar (i.e., loss of life)
I know that wasn't aimed at me, but I think geography can be refuted and Snorky has done that with his post. So if it's not geography (and my own view on this is that geography might play a very small part), why do the ISIS attacks that result in the most lives being taken receive less PH pages? I'm narrowing it down to PH rather than the wider press.Finlandia said:
PH is a Western site, with a majority of Western members, people tend to relate more to the people that are like oneself. If PH was a ME site with mainly ME members, there would be miles and miles of discussion about terrorism in Afghanistan and Iraq, but hardly any about Europe.
Racist, maybe, but that is how we are as a species.
So it's not the 26 mile proximity?Racist, maybe, but that is how we are as a species.
I think you're closer to the reasons.
PH is an internet based motoring site, without geographical boundaries. If you look at the international section, it has the ME as a subsection.
The ME is closer to the UK than most of the US.
partly, it is press coverage. Today there's been a huge IS truck bombing in Kurdish controlled Syria, but you need to look fairly hard to find it on the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-369026...
Alpinestars said:
Finlandia said:
PH is a Western site, with a majority of Western members, people tend to relate more to the people that are like oneself. If PH was a ME site with mainly ME members, there would be miles and miles of discussion about terrorism in Afghanistan and Iraq, but hardly any about Europe.
Racist, maybe, but that is how we are as a species.
So it's not the 26 mile proximity?Racist, maybe, but that is how we are as a species.
I think you're closer to the reasons.
PH is an internet based motoring site, without geographical boundaries. If you look at the international section, it has the ME as a subsection.
The ME is closer to the UK than most of the US.
PH is a UK based site, with mainly Western members, regardless of current location.
Alpinestars said:
So it's not the 26 mile proximity?
I think you're closer to the reasons.
PH is an internet based motoring site, without geographical boundaries. If you look at the international section, it has the ME as a subsection.
The ME is closer to the UK than most of the US.
Distance isn't always a physical measurement!I think you're closer to the reasons.
PH is an internet based motoring site, without geographical boundaries. If you look at the international section, it has the ME as a subsection.
The ME is closer to the UK than most of the US.
Stop trying to draw someone out to give the answer you want to hear, say it yourself!
Alpinestars said:
So it's not the 26 mile proximity?
I think you're closer to the reasons.
PH is an internet based motoring site, without geographical boundaries. If you look at the international section, it has the ME as a subsection.
The ME is closer to the UK than most of the US.
Culturally, it's the other side of the world. I think you're closer to the reasons.
PH is an internet based motoring site, without geographical boundaries. If you look at the international section, it has the ME as a subsection.
The ME is closer to the UK than most of the US.
People empathise and fear more when they can put themselves in the victim's shoes. Geographical and cultural proximity both contribute to that. These are adaptive responses to living in groups. You can't moralise human nature.
stripy7 said:
Terminator X said:
fatboy18 said:
SilverSpur said:
I'd just like to say a word or two of praise for the French police officers. No trials or years in cushy prison for these two fekers, straight to hell. Wished our police had done the same to Drummer Rigby's killers.
Could not agree more TX.
TX.
andymadmak said:
I think you are making heavy weather of playing the race card here Alpinestars. I don't honestly think the accusation is justified, for reasons described by several posters. But lets suppose for just one moment that there is more ballyhoo on PH over ISIS killing western people than there is over ISIS killing other folk, and let's just imagine for a moment that the reason for this disparity is some form of racism, the question that follows is "so what? " By that I mean what difference does PH members reaction or western reaction make to the legitimacy or otherwise of the acts of terror? You cannot possibly be asserting some sort of justification for what ISIS have done, can you? (genuine question)
Sorry, that's a pathetic and unfortunately very PH conclusion re am I justifying it. I'll treat that statement/question with the contempt it deserves. I'm playing the race card?
That's your inference. I asked for reasons. I've not given my views as to why I think it is yet, so not sure why you've jumped to that conclusion.
I asked a question, and so far have only managed a proximity argument.
All things being equal, it's odd that there is far less PH concern about deaths of innocent ME/Eastern people. IF, the issue is ISIS, there should be no real difference in bandwidth. IF the issue is not just ISIS, what other factors are making people post differently about the different events. Shouldn't be a difficult question to answer?
Alpinestars said:
Sorry, that's a pathetic and unfortunately very PH conclusion re am I justifying it. I'll treat that statement/question with the contempt it deserves.
I'm playing the race card?
That's your inference. I asked for reasons. I've not given my views as to why I think it is yet, so not sure why you've jumped to that conclusion.
I asked a question, and so far have only managed a proximity argument.
All things being equal, it's odd that there is far less PH concern about deaths of innocent ME/Eastern people. IF, the issue is ISIS, there should be no real difference in bandwidth. IF the issue is not just ISIS, what other factors are making people post differently about the different events. Shouldn't be a difficult question to answer?
I answered that earlier?I'm playing the race card?
That's your inference. I asked for reasons. I've not given my views as to why I think it is yet, so not sure why you've jumped to that conclusion.
I asked a question, and so far have only managed a proximity argument.
All things being equal, it's odd that there is far less PH concern about deaths of innocent ME/Eastern people. IF, the issue is ISIS, there should be no real difference in bandwidth. IF the issue is not just ISIS, what other factors are making people post differently about the different events. Shouldn't be a difficult question to answer?
quote=Budflicker]
Maybe it's more to do with the fact that many people from the UK travel to and holiday/live in the US and Europe but very few are considering Allepo as a holiday destination this year so it seems much less relevant to them.
I suspect also that there is a certain amount of let them kill each other all they like as long as it's not us attitude, very much like there is apathy in the non black community with regards to black on black violence closer to home.
Unfortunately it's just human nature, the same as i doubt that many people in China give a stuff about the priest yesterday, they are more bothered with the floods at home.
It is what it is.
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