£375000 overtime pay for doctor, who syas NHS isnt broken

[ucb]

I think the real problem here is that we will never know the detail of the deal made between the Trust and the particular consultant in question. Trusts do not have to pay overtime in a time sensitive manner. They may choose a patient episode fee basis (eg outpatient consultation - £50 per patient) which means it is entirely impossible to know how this figure has been arrived at.
It may be that he has been contracted through his own company and the number represents the cost of the total contract to run the service (whatever that may be).

[Dixy]

Murph7355 said:

out of interest what do you do?

I am a village idiot

[motoroller]

jjlynn27 said:

I'm obviously not privy to deal that that particular consultant agreed with trust (or whoever else). But telegraph made up so many stories about NHS and jd strike in particular that they made express look trustworthy.

To get this topic back on track, these are the figures of top 3 overtimes paid in UK (figures from bbc, fwiw).

1.£374,999: Unnamed consultant at Lancashire Teaching Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust
2.£205,408: Unnamed consultant at East Kent Hospitals University NHS Foundation Trust
3.£183,204: Unnamed consultant at Blackpool Teaching Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust

Remember that this also depends on the type of consultant. I recall an article which said A&E consultants can get £2k/day for filling in as a locum.

[mph1977]

motoroller said:

jjlynn27 said:

I'm obviously not privy to deal that that particular consultant agreed with trust (or whoever else). But telegraph made up so many stories about NHS and jd strike in particular that they made express look trustworthy.

To get this topic back on track, these are the figures of top 3 overtimes paid in UK (figures from bbc, fwiw).

1.£374,999: Unnamed consultant at Lancashire Teaching Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust
2.£205,408: Unnamed consultant at East Kent Hospitals University NHS Foundation Trust
3.£183,204: Unnamed consultant at Blackpool Teaching Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust

Remember that this also depends on the type of consultant. I recall an article which said A&E consultants can get £2k/day for filling in as a locum.

probably for 12 hours shop floor or 8 hours shopfloor and first on senior for trauma ... ( to add to the fun when you've got an OK as a middle grade to cover the shop floor at night but you aren;t convinced on their skills in resus medicine )

also with anaesthetists and Obstetricians there;s the requirement to have them present / close by 24/7 which means that it can be quite lucrative ( and those doing regular night cover in their substantive jobs can have quite a bit of time off from day time activities as the 'session' / 'planned activity' is foreshortened at night to give an effective uplift to basic pay

Edited by mph1977 on Friday 29th July 20:00

[jjlynn27]

fblm said:

jjlynn27 said:

I'm obviously not privy to deal that that particular consultant agreed with trust (or whoever else). But telegraph made up so many stories about NHS and jd strike in particular that they made express look trustworthy.

To get this topic back on track, these are the figures of top 3 overtimes paid in UK (figures from bbc, fwiw).

1.£374,999: Unnamed consultant at Lancashire Teaching Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust
2.£205,408: Unnamed consultant at East Kent Hospitals University NHS Foundation Trust
3.£183,204: Unnamed consultant at Blackpool Teaching Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust

What's your point? That was all in the OP's link. On the face of it even if he's on the supposed maximum 250 quid an hour it would seem almost impossible to do 375 grands worth of overtime on top of a full time professional job. Which would suggest he is on far more than the maximum rate reported, or doing far fewer hours than a full time job usually entails. How is this off topic?

Not sure what's confusing you.
I don't trust any figures from Telegraph. That figure, started with telegraph and now repeated by everyone else is not maximum. I know that for certain. Off topic was my detour about telegraph. Figures posted was for anyone that didn't read the op. Again, I don't know his/hers particular circumstances, so not going to speculate on those.

[anonymous-user]

jjlynn27 said:

That figure, started with telegraph and now repeated by everyone else is not maximum. I know that for certain.

There you go. That's all you had to say. I was surprised it was so low.

[peterpeter]

One consultant doctor gets paid 375k over basic

The next two 180k on the list

There are people working in the city with 1/10th the mental ability
earning multiples of this

There are footballers with 1/100 the mental ability earning this in a week
and they are not even that good

And this is a news story

[sidicks]

peterpeter said:

One consultant doctor gets paid 375k over basic

The next two 180k on the list

There are people working in the city with 1/10th the mental ability
earning multiples of this

There are footballers with 1/100 the mental ability earning this in a week
and they are not even that good

And this is a news story

Rightly or wrongly, you're not funding the latter two!

[glazbagun]

sidicks said:

Rightly or wrongly, you're not funding the latter two!

That's irrelevant to the price of a doctor, though, isn't it? It's PH's beloved free market economics which sets the price of a Doctor. We even have a department dedicated to poaching talent crom other countries.

It's not a new thing either- from '96:

GP training undersubscribed, jobs fair to fill 140 positions doesn't net one

NZ can't fill £190k GP position

[sidicks]

glazbagun said:

That's irrelevant to the price of a doctor, though, isn't it?

I never said it wasn't. Someone was asking why it was news.

(Plus of course bank bonuses and footballer's salaries are also 'news')

glazbagun said:

It's PH's beloved free market economics which sets the price of a Doctor. We even have a department dedicated to poaching talent crom other countries.

Is there really a genuine free market in doctor's ?

glazbagun said:

It's not a new thing either- from '96:

GP training undersubscribed, jobs fair to fill 140 positions doesn't net one

NZ can't fill £190k GP position

OK, According to earlier in this thread we are training lots of new doctors though.

[ucb]

History shows that numbers in training are insufficient.
Bear in mind also that a large number of international medical students are attracted by UK university education and often return to their home countries following graduation.
I spoke with a trainee yesterday (F2 grade) and he told me that 6 of the 45 F2s in his year are going onto training posts.
But this is all irrelevant to this thread about senior doctor overtime.
And if you really don't think we pay for footballers and bankers then it's totally pointless as a discussion

[sidicks]

ucb said:

History shows that numbers in training are insufficient.
Bear in mind also that a large number of international medical students are attracted by UK university education and often return to their home countries following graduation.
I spoke with a trainee yesterday (F2 grade) and he told me that 6 of the 45 F2s in his year are going onto training posts.
But this is all irrelevant to this thread about senior doctor overtime.

As above, there are additional training places being created, according to mph1977 (I think)

ucb said:

And if you really don't think we pay for footballers and bankers then it's totally pointless as a discussion

Please can you explain the point you are trying to make?

[peterpeter]

sidicks said:

peterpeter said:

One consultant doctor gets paid 375k over basic

The next two 180k on the list

There are people working in the city with 1/10th the mental ability
earning multiples of this

There are footballers with 1/100 the mental ability earning this in a week
and they are not even that good

And this is a news story

Rightly or wrongly, you're not funding the latter two!

Indirectly we all are.- I subscribe to sky. forced to because digital receptions so poor.

and what about BBC presenters paid millions..

estimate 1/4 mental ability at best ... paying directly for them.. via license fee.


this is one doctor- who saves lives.. not some gingerhaired tt who cannot even present a car show

[sidicks]

peterpeter said:

Indirectly we all are.- I subscribe to sky. forced to because digital receptions so poor.

Like it or not, that's a choices!

peterpeter said:

and what about BBC presenters paid millions..
estimate 1/4 mental ability at best ... paying directly for them.. via license fee.
this is one doctor- who saves lives.. not some gingerhaired tt who cannot even present a car show

Pretty vague connection to footballers and bankers!

[mph1977]

sidicks said:

ucb said:

History shows that numbers in training are insufficient.
Bear in mind also that a large number of international medical students are attracted by UK university education and often return to their home countries following graduation.
I spoke with a trainee yesterday (F2 grade) and he told me that 6 of the 45 F2s in his year are going onto training posts.
But this is all irrelevant to this thread about senior doctor overtime.

As above, there are additional training places being created, according to mph1977 (I think)

the additional places were created a few years ago now but it was a none trivial amount of places. One of the inherent problems with trying to increase health professional numbers is providing effective supervision for the thousands of hours of clinical placements required.

[sidicks]

mph1977 said:

the additional places were created a few years ago now but it was a none trivial amount of places. One of the inherent problems with trying to increase health professional numbers is providing effective supervision for the thousands of hours of clinical placements required.

Thanks for the confirmation / clarification!

[jjlynn27]

mph1977 said:

the additional places were created a few years ago now but it was a none trivial amount of places. One of the inherent problems with trying to increase health professional numbers is providing effective supervision for the thousands of hours of clinical placements required.

Do you have a link for those additional places?

[mph1977]

jjlynn27 said:

mph1977 said:

the additional places were created a few years ago now but it was a none trivial amount of places. One of the inherent problems with trying to increase health professional numbers is providing effective supervision for the thousands of hours of clinical placements required.

Do you have a link for those additional places?

page 55 of https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...

shows the near doubling of places by 2012 for medical students since 1996 ...

[jjlynn27]

mph1977 said:

page 55 of https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...

shows the near doubling of places by 2012 for medical students since 1996 ...

Thanks for that, if I'm reading that right, from 2004 onwards there was not increase in number of training places, and yet population increase for more than 5mil? Plus huge scope increase? Right?

[968]

sidicks said:

peterpeter said:

One consultant doctor gets paid 375k over basic

The next two 180k on the list

There are people working in the city with 1/10th the mental ability
earning multiples of this

There are footballers with 1/100 the mental ability earning this in a week
and they are not even that good

And this is a news story

Rightly or wrongly, you're not funding the latter two!

Perhaps the public would rather not have the additional activity in that consultants private time made available so they can access more clinic appointments/operating lists, or do you think the consultant should just work additional hours for free?

As a consultant who does occasional ad hoc clinics/lists for the NHS in extra contractual time, this is a non story targeted st the consultants when the real blame lies in the recruitment chaos that has resulted in most departments being woefully under staffed. As a consequence trust have no option but to pay for extra contractual work.

Oh and we probably do pay for the bankers who work for Lloyds and RBS and they earn many multiples of any hospital consultant.