£375000 overtime pay for doctor, who syas NHS isnt broken

[968]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Nearly every single trust I've worked in for more than 20 years for a start. I sit on the liaison representative group from my trust with the CCG and the relationship is not exactly cordial.

[Randy Winkman]

Typical Tory cost cutting.

[968]

Randy Winkman said:

Typical Tory cost cutting.

As has been stated already it's a non story publicised to coincide with consultant contract renegotiations. Usual politicians playing dirty tricks.

[jjlynn27]

sidicks said:

...

3. In the NHS example, there is seemingly not a proper market for consultants and there is little means of ensuring that the NHS get good value for the money spent.

If there was a proper market for consultants, do you think that their salaries would be higher or lower?

[silent ninja]

sidicks said:

silent ninja said:

There are as many immigrants from outside Europe which by your definition would be controlled immigrants.

And? Who is expressing concern about doctors coming to work in this country, if there a shortfall, as clsimed?

silent ninja said:

The Brexit campaign targeted all immigrants, regardless of whether European or not and painted this as a very bad thing. Little Britain prevailed. The supporters showed plenty of hate for anything foreign, despite huge gaps in health& medicine, engineering, science...this is pretty clear today.

It is pretty clear that you are wrong and are confusing a minority with the majority.

silent ninja said:

Just the other day I was told to go home, despite being home and speaking better English than the 'gentleman' who was barely coherent and probably never stepped outside of his tiny neighbourhood. That's what I'd term lack of integration...

Being unable to differentiate between the majority and a few isolated idiots is what I'd term 'idiotic'.

Timely article in the Guardian. I'm not the only one it seems.
No one told me to ‘go home’ for 16 years. Then we voted for Brexit

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/...

[anonymous-user]

Hardly seems excessive to me if that's the highest paid nhs consultant. It's not even close to what an equivalent professional in accounting, law or finance makes. Funny how we value different professions as a society.

[g3org3y]

Dixy said:

Otispunkmeyer said:

Can you? I thought in Canada at least you, as a doctor, couldn't just go over there and get on with it.

My daughter already has her place for this time next year if she is unable to get the reg job she wants. She will work less hours, less antisocial hours, considerably more salary and help with her CV when she applys to be a consultant.

Best of luck to her Dixy.

[sidicks]

silent ninja said:

Timely article in the Guardian. I'm not the only one it seems.
No one told me to ‘go home’ for 16 years. Then we voted for Brexit

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/...

Seems as though they, like you, are also unable to differentiate between a minority of idiots and the vast majority.

[glazbagun]

sidicks said:

silent ninja said:

Timely article in the Guardian. I'm not the only one it seems.
No one told me to ‘go home’ for 16 years. Then we voted for Brexit

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/...

Seems as though they, like you, are also unable to differentiate between a minority of idiots and the vast majority.

To be fair, start talking about Islamic Terrorists and a lot of PHers start making the same mistake.

I think the decade or so when the TV media wouldn't tackle the issue of the potentially negative aspects of immigration seriouly (and the papers who don't seem to tackle anything seriously!) has lead to a generation of pent-up frustration stuck on a feedback loop that the Brexit debate finally allowed to surface. That Brexit has led racists to think that they are in the majority and that there views are more acceptable is not a huge mental leap to make.

[motoroller]

There are many other fields that pay similar amounts, if not more, for work which is far less useful to society. Anyone who vilifies doctors with the current state of the NHS is showing their true colours, this country would do so much better without this kind of news story which promotes misinformation and ignorance.

I'm wondering how long it'll be until I hear "doctors get paid nearly £400k" on the high street.

[JuniorD]

I would say that these reported overtime payments are more than offset by the millions of UNPAID over-time hours which are worked by NHS doctors each month.

But when you see this st in the news, you know it's the media doing the govt's dirty work of antagonizing the public against doctors, which will assist them going after consultants now they've seen to the juniors.

Edited by JuniorD on Thursday 28th July 13:43

[jjlynn27]

fblm said:

Hardly seems excessive to me if that's the highest paid nhs consultant. It's not even close to what an equivalent professional in accounting, law or finance makes. Funny how we value different professions as a society.

While your point stands, the money in question is for overtime. Third one down was on half that (from memory).

[anonymous-user]

jjlynn27 said:

While your point stands, the money in question is for overtime. Third one down was on half that (from memory).

I appreciate that, what would his basic rate be 200(?), taking his total to 600 ish? Or what a mid level partner at an accountancy firm makes. I suppose the real question is how he possibly has time on top of a full time job to do so much overtime and if it's not a full time job is it really overtime or just a way of paying him really well? Can't say I'm outraged at all tbh, I'll save my ire for the likes of the troughing Kinnocks.

[jjlynn27]

fblm said:

jjlynn27 said:

While your point stands, the money in question is for overtime. Third one down was on half that (from memory).

I appreciate that, what would his basic rate be 200(?), taking his total to 600 ish? Or what a mid level partner at an accountancy firm makes. I suppose the real question is how he possibly has time on top of a full time job to do so much overtime and if it's not a full time job is it really overtime or just a way of paying him really well? Can't say I'm outraged at all tbh, I'll save my ire for the likes of the troughing Kinnocks.

Depends on lenght of service.

nhsemployers said:

Consultants

As a consultant you'll earn a basic salary of £76,001 to £102,465 per year, depending on the length of your service. You may apply for local and national clinical excellence awards. This is a competitive process which takes into account work that you do over and above delivering your basic job requirements. In addition if you take on extra responsibilities, for example in management or education, you may expect to be paid more. Consultants can also supplement their salary by working in private practice if they wish. The opportunities available will depend on their specialty areas and the time they wish to spend on this outside of their NHS contracted hours.

102k is after 17 years of service, as a consultant (from memory). The overtime is negotiated (again, from memory).

It's not the quick path to riches.

[Dromedary66]

So given that this shortage of doctors has been something that has been talked about for over a decade - I hope measures have been taken to increase the number of medical school places to try and resolve this? Given that there is such competition for places as it is, and students with all A*'s are being turned away, surely the intake needs to increase so that in 10-15 years time we have a higher number of consultants.

[jjlynn27]

Dromedary66 said:

So given that this shortage of doctors has been something that has been talked about for over a decade - I hope measures have been taken to increase the number of medical school places to try and resolve this? Given that there is such competition for places as it is, and students with all A*'s are being turned away, surely the intake needs to increase so that in 10-15 years time we have a higher number of consultants.

No, no more places and if you look at jd thread, it seems that govt is making profession less appealing so much so that existing trainees are less likely to stay in the UK and become consultants. Or become consultants and then bugger off somewhere else. From a friend in Aus, the agency that facilitated his move is offering him incentives to get more people like him over there.

eta: making

Edited by jjlynn27 on Thursday 28th July 16:21

[anonymous-user]

jjlynn27 said:

102k is after 17 years of service, as a consultant (from memory).

Wow, ok.

The Torygraph reported the highest rate of consultant overtime was £1000 for 4 hours, but more usually £600 for a shift. So lets use that as a benchmark which means our man here did 1500 hours minimum of overtime up to a more likely but scarecely believable 2500 hours. On top of his regular job. Is that even possible?

[jjlynn27]

fblm said:

Wow, ok.

The Torygraph reported the highest rate of consultant overtime was £1000 for 4 hours, but more usually £600 for a shift. So lets use that as a benchmark which means our man here did 1500 hours minimum of overtime up to a more likely but scarecely believable 2500 hours. On top of his regular job. Is that even possible?

I'm obviously not privy to deal that that particular consultant agreed with trust (or whoever else). But telegraph made up so many stories about NHS and jd strike in particular that they made express look trustworthy.

To get this topic back on track, these are the figures of top 3 overtimes paid in UK (figures from bbc, fwiw).

1.£374,999: Unnamed consultant at Lancashire Teaching Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust
2.£205,408: Unnamed consultant at East Kent Hospitals University NHS Foundation Trust
3.£183,204: Unnamed consultant at Blackpool Teaching Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust

[anonymous-user]

jjlynn27 said:

I'm obviously not privy to deal that that particular consultant agreed with trust (or whoever else). But telegraph made up so many stories about NHS and jd strike in particular that they made express look trustworthy.

To get this topic back on track, these are the figures of top 3 overtimes paid in UK (figures from bbc, fwiw).

1.£374,999: Unnamed consultant at Lancashire Teaching Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust
2.£205,408: Unnamed consultant at East Kent Hospitals University NHS Foundation Trust
3.£183,204: Unnamed consultant at Blackpool Teaching Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust

What's your point? That was all in the OP's link. On the face of it even if he's on the supposed maximum 250 quid an hour it would seem almost impossible to do 375 grands worth of overtime on top of a full time professional job. Which would suggest he is on far more than the maximum rate reported, or doing far fewer hours than a full time job usually entails. How is this off topic?

[Murph7355]

Dixy said:

Murph7355 said:

There is not a job on the planet that offers both of these (and I include footballers and politicians etc alike in this, much as I have a general distaste for both). If they expect it, then they are fooling themselves.

I don't believe I have the only one.

You have a significant remuneration package and decent work/life balance? I guess both sides of that coin are subjective, but out of interest what do you do?