£375000 overtime pay for doctor, who syas NHS isnt broken

[MrBarry123]

Provided it means we have the very best consultants working in our hospitals, I'm perfectly okay with this.

[anonymous-user]

Jockman said:

"The average amount paid in high-cost overtime was £13,356 per consultant"

And yet we focus in on the exceptions??

Indeed. I thought the OP was going for a tabloid headline writer's job.

[sidicks]

MrBarry123 said:

Provided it means we have the very best consultants working in our hospitals, I'm perfectly okay with this.

Which is fine, as long as you can identity where the money comes from to pay this - taxing 'someone else' isn't a viable option...!

[JagLover]

jjlynn27 said:

You think you are comparing like for like? This is single consultant that got paid this much. Junior solicitor? Take, not even best paid, solicitor, but say top 5%. How much do you think that they get paid? Complete non-story, as it took very much exception rather than a rule. As mentioned before, if we had more consultants, there would be no need for overtime and using so many locums.

I make no comment regarding relative values only pointing out that a charge out rate is very different to a salary. If I had been paid my charge out rate over the years I would be able to retire a very rich accountant by now.

[jjlynn27]

sidicks said:

Which is fine, as long as you can identity where the money comes from to pay this - taxing 'someone else' isn't a viable option...!

Where should the money come from?

Reading that article, the third highest figure was 183k, so the third highest figure is is half of the first one? So very much an exception.

[jjlynn27]

JagLover said:

I make no comment regarding relative values only pointing out that a charge out rate is very different to a salary. If I had been paid my charge out rate over the years I would be able to retire a very rich accountant by now.

I still don't get where junior solicitor part came from. If he was the highest paid, comparison should be with others at the top of their game.

[sidicks]

jjlynn27 said:

Where should the money come from?

Reading that article, the third highest figure was 183k, so the third highest figure is is half of the first one? So very much an exception.

BBC produces misleading headline shocker...

Next you'll be telling me that not all bankers earn £15m per week etc etc...

[jjlynn27]

sidicks said:

BBC produces misleading headline shocker...

Next you'll be telling me that not all bankers earn £15m per week etc etc...

I was under impression that average salary in the city is that. With bankers on significantly more.

[JagLover]

jjlynn27 said:

I still don't get where junior solicitor part came from. If he was the highest paid, comparison should be with others at the top of their game.

That's what £150 per hour would get you in my experience, if we are talking of charge out rates.

[V8 Fettler]

Jockman said:

V8 Fettler said:

Do not NHS consultants receive a good salary? If so, why is there paid overtime available?

Spikes in demand?

Doesn't a good professional salary generally mean that overtime doesn't exist? i.e. working over and above core hours is seen as part of the job description, as is working unsocial hours.

[Foliage]

spending a £1 to save a penny

[MrBarry123]

sidicks said:

Which is fine, as long as you can identity where the money comes from to pay this - taxing 'someone else' isn't a viable option...!

Eh? It'd be taken from the consultant's aligned NHS Trust's budget.

[jjlynn27]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Absolutely agree, hence the whole story is pointless. The part about more consultants was general musings rather than strictly being about this story. Locums do, and will always have their place. What's inefficient is to use them to cover chronic shortage of doctors, and they are currently used for that.

My objection to JL post was comparison with junior solicitor. That comparison is daft, to put it mildly.

FWIW I don't think that all, or even most consultants are gods. The ones that I know certainly don't behave as if they are. They would just have longer education, and more training than most comparable professions, with everything that that entails.

As for locums, some of locums are coming to UK to do weekend work from EU. Basically covering shortages. Friend who's radiologist in France, given we spoke after the initial drop in pound after brexit vote, said that she'll not bother anymore as it was just about worth it before.

[Jockman]

V8 Fettler said:

Jockman said:

V8 Fettler said:

Do not NHS consultants receive a good salary? If so, why is there paid overtime available?

Spikes in demand?

Doesn't a good professional salary generally mean that overtime doesn't exist? i.e. working over and above core hours is seen as part of the job description, as is working unsocial hours.

Owners of a business would do this - you are correct.

Unfortunately, Consultants for all their undoubted skills remain Employees / Contractors / however you want to describe them.

[sidicks]

Jockman said:

Owners of a business would do this - you are correct.

Unfortunately, Consultants for all their undoubted skills remain Employees / Contractors / however you want to describe them.

To be fair most other 'senior professionals' would do this too.

[V8 Fettler]

Jockman said:

V8 Fettler said:

Jockman said:

V8 Fettler said:

Do not NHS consultants receive a good salary? If so, why is there paid overtime available?

Spikes in demand?

Doesn't a good professional salary generally mean that overtime doesn't exist? i.e. working over and above core hours is seen as part of the job description, as is working unsocial hours.

Owners of a business would do this - you are correct.

Unfortunately, Consultants for all their undoubted skills remain Employees / Contractors / however you want to describe them.

There are pay bands for NHS consultants which refer to salaries, therefore unlikely to be contractors. Perhaps there are consultants employed as contractors by the NHS (?)

Police inspectors do not receive paid overtime, neither do grades above. There are plenty of salaried professional positions where there is no paid overtime but it is expected that hours will be worked above the core contractual requirement.

[mph1977]

Derek Smith said:

T<snip>

Nothing has been done to increase the flow of home-trained doctors. <snip>

other than GEM (new places) and the new Medical Schools ( new places) you mean ...

[anonymous-user]

I would imagine the NHS also has to compete with private facilities for consultants' time.

[sidicks]

MrBarry123 said:

sidicks said:

Which is fine, as long as you can identity where the money comes from to pay this - taxing 'someone else' isn't a viable option...!

Eh? It'd be taken from the consultant's aligned NHS Trust's budget.

Of, of course, it's not like the NHS budget is needed to be used elsewhere....

[Jockman]

sidicks said:

Jockman said:

Owners of a business would do this - you are correct.

Unfortunately, Consultants for all their undoubted skills remain Employees / Contractors / however you want to describe them.

To be fair most other 'senior professionals' would do this too.

I didn't realise that. Would they have some sort of Ownership in the business to motivate them to do this?

Pretty sure the Partners at Hill Dickinson overlook any trivial amounts of overtime so long as it's neither excessive nor regular. Sorts of fits in with what you are saying.