so glad im not american or in the united states.

[unrepentant]

turbobloke said:

While that's an insignificantly small sample size, it must be a home from home with no ads as a bonus.

In the published paper I referred to previously from Groseclose and Milyo, from a total of 20 USA media sources only 2 are conservative, with the remainder liberal left. Their scale runs from 0 (most conservative) to 100 (most liberal).

ABC Good Morning America 56.1
ABC World News Tonight 61.0
CBS Early Show 66.6
CBS Evening News 73.7
CNN NewsNight with Aaron Brown 56.0
Drudge Report 60.4
Fox News 39.7
Los Angeles Times 70.0
NBC Nightly News 61.6
NBC Today Show 64.0
New York Times 73.7
Newshour with Jim Lehrer 55.8
Newsweek 66.3
NPR Morning Edition 66.3
Time Magazine 65.4
U.S. News and World Report 65.8
USA Today 63.4
Wall Street Journal 85.1
Washington Post 66.6
Washington Times 35.4

Useful to have such up to date analysis....... Aaron Brown last appeared on CNN in 2005..................

[turbobloke]

unrepentant said:

turbobloke said:

While that's an insignificantly small sample size, it must be a home from home with no ads as a bonus.

In the published paper I referred to previously from Groseclose and Milyo, from a total of 20 USA media sources only 2 are conservative, with the remainder liberal left. Their scale runs from 0 (most conservative) to 100 (most liberal).

ABC Good Morning America 56.1
ABC World News Tonight 61.0
CBS Early Show 66.6
CBS Evening News 73.7
CNN NewsNight with Aaron Brown 56.0
Drudge Report 60.4
Fox News 39.7
Los Angeles Times 70.0
NBC Nightly News 61.6
NBC Today Show 64.0
New York Times 73.7
Newshour with Jim Lehrer 55.8
Newsweek 66.3
NPR Morning Edition 66.3
Time Magazine 65.4
U.S. News and World Report 65.8
USA Today 63.4
Wall Street Journal 85.1
Washington Post 66.6
Washington Times 35.4

Useful to have such up to date analysis....... Aaron Brown last appeared on CNN in 2005..................

There's no automatic sell-by date on research; all you have to do is cite a more recent paper with different results.

You didn't, preferring to shoot and miss. Any time you find a sinilar paper stating the opposite, dated this year or last, post up!

Out of interest, how long do you think it takes for a media leopard to change its spots?

Those in the UK can think of the Mail, the Guardian, the BBC, as examples.

[unrepentant]

Blue Cat said:

Both my aunt and grandmother (and Great Aunt who was a US War Bride) married Americans and have lived in America for many years and life there boils down to one simple fact, it's a great place to live if you have money and are healthy.

Get sick, lose your money, it is an horrid existence.

I can remember on my first trip over there in the 80's seeing my Great Aunt choosing between buying food or getting her prescription and being shocked (and young). I thought everyone had access to health care like we do.

It is a wonderful place to visit but I would never wish to live there.

Healthcare costs are pretty staggering here. Unfortunately the drug companies, mega insurance companies and healthcare providers are generous donors to the republican party and despite the fact that we are ripped off unmercifully they get away with it.

Things are changing though. Prior to the ACA insurance companies could refuse cover to anyone with a pre existing condition. They can no longer do that or discriminate against them. 50 million people had no insurance before the ACA, 20 million of those now have it and as that figure expands it will become more affordable. Most people have employer provided healthcare. I pay zero for my premiums as an example and I work for a small company (100 employees). I have to pay the first $3000 of any costs, which are subsidized, but all screenings etc.. are free. I think it's good value. Most years my costs are close to zero. I also have a Health Savings Account (set up by Obama) where I and my employer can save tax free for medical costs. Seniors get Medicare and the poor get Medicaid (many republicans would like to abolish all of the above).

[scherzkeks]

Fastchas said:

I'd be interested how you become 'indoctrinated'. Is this like singing the national enthem to the flag before school starts every day, one hand on the heart?
Also, please elaborate on your reasons why Europe is better and it's comparisons. Genuinely interested to know, thanks.

Yes, pledge of allegiance every day (w/ hand on heart) in primary school, and often at sporting and other public events.

Textbooks, newspapers, political events, etc. are always heavily peppered with reminders that we are "the greatest nation in the world". Cult-like reverence for anything military. Criticizing anyone in or anything about the armed forces is a serious social offense.

And subtler forms exceptionalism that are instilled are harder to describe here. A general sense that the outside world is uncivilized and has little to offer. The idea that America is "more free" than anywhere else. The idea that everything revolves around the US, and whatever we are involved in -- we are the indispensible nation.

As for a comparison, I've been in Germany for years now. In no particular order, I find the education system far superior, and there is little crime, excellent infrastructure, a true work-life balance in most professions (a full month of vacation time), no at-will employment, a more balanced tax system (IMO), a sense of collectivism, excellent social benefits (healthcare, mutterschutz, 3 years of elternzeit, etc. ). Then you have the polical system which is nowhere near as corrupt, IMO, and forces parties to work together.

Then there are the grey areas on attitudes, motivation, cultural traditions. The US is a hustling society that values material goods and money over nearly all else. There is no spiritual center. Could go on quite a bit, but this post is already too long.

[Derek Smith]

scherzkeks said:

Fastchas said:

I'd be interested how you become 'indoctrinated'. Is this like singing the national enthem to the flag before school starts every day, one hand on the heart?
Also, please elaborate on your reasons why Europe is better and it's comparisons. Genuinely interested to know, thanks.

Yes, pledge of allegiance every day (w/ hand on heart) in primary school, and often at sporting and other public events.

Textbooks, newspapers, political events, etc. are always heavily peppered with reminders that we are "the greatest nation in the world". Cult-like reverence for anything military. Denigrating anyone in or anything about the armed forces is a serious social offense.

And subtler forms exceptionalism that are instilled are harder to describe here. A general sense that the outside world is uncivilized and has little to offer. The idea that America is "more free" than anywhere else. The idea that everything revolves around the US, and whatever we are involved in -- we are the indispensible nation.

As for a comparison, I've been in Germany for years now. In no particular order, I find the education system far superior, and there is little crime, excellent infrastructure, a true work-life balance in most professions (a full month of vacation time), no at-will employment, a more balanced tax system (IMO), a sense of collectivism, excellent social benefits (healthcare, mutterschutz, 3 years of elternzeit, etc. ). Then you have the polical system which is nowhere near as corrupt, IMO, and forces parties to work together.

Then there are the grey areas on attitudes, motivation, cultural traditions. The US is a hustling society that values material goods and money over nearly all else. There is no spiritual center. Could go on quite a bit, but this post would be far too long.

I got the same level of indoctrination when I was a kid. 6 years of empire, magazines aimed at kids praising Victoria for going out and taming the uncultured dark continent, and civilising India. I was also told much of the sins of 'England' as well, including the deliberate killing of 'the Irish' by the potato famine and Drogeda, not only from history books but my rosary bothering aunties who were catholic in belief and Irish in desire, despite being all born in London or Liverpool.

The papers from the right, most of them, were full of such reinforcement.

Once into my teens and into libraries, my initial reaction was to condemn all what the UK did south of the Isle of Wight and east of Thanet. By the time I got to my middle 20s I realised that all history is wrong and I could believe what I wanted to with as much justification as anyone else.

You would appear to be an example of the norm of shuffling off the indoctrination coil. I bet you felt liberated the first time you realised.

You have had the choice of where to live, which is available, to a great extent and for a while at least, to anyone in this country at least as far as most of Europe. I did actually consider emigrating to Oz in the 70s but the little group I was going with was blocked by the down-under unions. One mate did go but returned when one of his children became seriously ill and the insurance they had then refused to continue to insure him without increasing the premiums to nonsensical levels. I think this has since been outlawed. He returned to the UK, back to the firm I was at, and said that his wife cried when then got off the boat through relief of being back in the UK. Their child's life was saved as such, at least for a while.

Someone suggested waiting for 8 months for a minor op. I was diagnosed with two 'minor' (to them) problems this year, one in February, and one at the end of May. I was seen in March for the first one, all successful although I'm now on annual checks, and a week ago for the second - stitches out on Friday. Both were seen as moderately urgent. I've not used the NHS hospitals much in my time, but each time I have the service has been exemplary. That's at less than 2.5 times the cost per capita of Americans.

An American friend was involved in an RTA as a passenger. She was not injured but another passenger was. She went with her to hospital and was stunned as to how well the injured person was dealt with. It seems that she had been told horror stories of the NHS and expected rats to be running around.

We are all misled about other countries. One wonders the reasons for the lies.

[unrepentant]

turbobloke said:

unrepentant said:

turbobloke said:

While that's an insignificantly small sample size, it must be a home from home with no ads as a bonus.

In the published paper I referred to previously from Groseclose and Milyo, from a total of 20 USA media sources only 2 are conservative, with the remainder liberal left. Their scale runs from 0 (most conservative) to 100 (most liberal).

ABC Good Morning America 56.1
ABC World News Tonight 61.0
CBS Early Show 66.6
CBS Evening News 73.7
CNN NewsNight with Aaron Brown 56.0
Drudge Report 60.4
Fox News 39.7
Los Angeles Times 70.0
NBC Nightly News 61.6
NBC Today Show 64.0
New York Times 73.7
Newshour with Jim Lehrer 55.8
Newsweek 66.3
NPR Morning Edition 66.3
Time Magazine 65.4
U.S. News and World Report 65.8
USA Today 63.4
Wall Street Journal 85.1
Washington Post 66.6
Washington Times 35.4

Useful to have such up to date analysis....... Aaron Brown last appeared on CNN in 2005..................

There's no automatic sell-by date on research; all you have to do is cite a more recent paper with different results.

You didn't, preferring to shoot and miss. Any time you find a sinilar paper stating the opposite, dated this year or last, post up!

Out of interest, how long do you think it takes for a media leopard to change its spots?

Those in the UK can think of the Mail, the Guardian, the BBC, as examples.

No, it's just meaningless to quote data that is at least 12 years out of date. It has no meaning. FOX is only 20 years old, so an infant when that analysis was done. The most liberal of all the cable news channels, MSNBC, is not even on the list! Most people don't even get a daily paper anymore and get their news from Yahoo, MSN etc.. It doesn't even mention talk radio which is totally dominated by the extreme right.

Things may soon shift though. Rumors are that James Murdoch feels the hyperbolic right wing stance of FOX is played out (old white bigots who make up their audience are dying off) and he plans to use the outing of Roger Ailes to reposition the network in the center. Soon the bigots will have nowhere to go except the radio and Limbaugh and co have been dropped already by a number of networks.

[turbobloke]

unrepentant said:

turbobloke said:

unrepentant said:

turbobloke said:

While that's an insignificantly small sample size, it must be a home from home with no ads as a bonus.

In the published paper I referred to previously from Groseclose and Milyo, from a total of 20 USA media sources only 2 are conservative, with the remainder liberal left. Their scale runs from 0 (most conservative) to 100 (most liberal).

ABC Good Morning America 56.1
ABC World News Tonight 61.0
CBS Early Show 66.6
CBS Evening News 73.7
CNN NewsNight with Aaron Brown 56.0
Drudge Report 60.4
Fox News 39.7
Los Angeles Times 70.0
NBC Nightly News 61.6
NBC Today Show 64.0
New York Times 73.7
Newshour with Jim Lehrer 55.8
Newsweek 66.3
NPR Morning Edition 66.3
Time Magazine 65.4
U.S. News and World Report 65.8
USA Today 63.4
Wall Street Journal 85.1
Washington Post 66.6
Washington Times 35.4

Useful to have such up to date analysis....... Aaron Brown last appeared on CNN in 2005..................

There's no automatic sell-by date on research; all you have to do is cite a more recent paper with different results.

You didn't, preferring to shoot and miss. Any time you find a sinilar paper stating the opposite, dated this year or last, post up!

Out of interest, how long do you think it takes for a media leopard to change its spots?

Those in the UK can think of the Mail, the Guardian, the BBC, as examples.

No, it's just meaningless to quote data that is at least 12 years out of date. It has no meaning. FOX is only 20 years old, so an infant when that analysis was done.

I hadn't appreciated that Fox had re-invented itself as a Conservative media outlet, having started as an infant Conservative media outlet (see the G & M paper) and then transformed into a Conservative media source today

Whose point are you making here, apart from mine?!

Of course research that's only ten years or so old is useful.

Clearly you don't like the sound if it, but that's another matter, and there's still nothing from you in terms of a more recent paper with different conclusions.

There is more recent research and it backs up G & M.

An Indiana University study in 2014 showed that only 7% of journalists identify themselves as Republicans, down from 18% in 2002.

The research undertaken as a whole including recent research demonstrates the overall left-liberal bias in US media sources and provides no basis for disregarding Groseclose & Milyo.

[unrepentant]

turbobloke said:

An Indiana University study in 2014 showed that only 7% of journalists identify themselves as Republicans, down from 18% in 2002.

That's because 93% of journalists are pretty smart.

[lionelf]

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

Using a Tom Cruise meme to mock a post, priceless.

[mikal83]

unrepentant said:

turbobloke said:

An Indiana University study in 2014 showed that only 7% of journalists identify themselves as Republicans, down from 18% in 2002.

That's because 93% of journalists are pretty smart.

Trouble is the 7% have the biggest mouths!

[pim]

America is different.Excellent if you are white have a reasonable job and go to church regulary.Do a bit of shooting and you have plenty of mates.

In Europe.Germany is about the best to make a living.Fair enployemet system and employers do look after employees.One of my Cousins has a small printing business just outside Frankfurt.Britain could be the same maybe in the future.>;)

[unrepentant]

pim said:

America is different.Excellent if you are white have a reasonable job and go to church regulary.Do a bit of shooting and you have plenty of mates.

In Europe.Germany is about the best to make a living.Fair enployemet system and employers do look after employees.One of my Cousins has a small printing business just outside Frankfurt.Britain could be the same maybe in the future.>;)

I never go to church and don't shoot. I guess that means I'm struggling? Some of the crap you read on PH about the US is mind blowing.

US labor laws, although heavily weighted against the employee do enable enterprise much more than the European ones. Although in theory employees have little protection the reality is that good employers want to keep good employees. Bad employees can be fired and that's how it should be.

[Derek Smith]

unrepentant said:

turbobloke said:

An Indiana University study in 2014 showed that only 7% of journalists identify themselves as Republicans, down from 18% in 2002.

That's because 93% of journalists are pretty smart.

It matters not what the journos want. The editor is the one in control and the editor takes orders. The editorial lean of a publication does not follow the leanings of the workers.

[mikal83]

unrepentant said:

pim said:

America is different.Excellent if you are white have a reasonable job and go to church regulary.Do a bit of shooting and you have plenty of mates.

In Europe.Germany is about the best to make a living.Fair enployemet system and employers do look after employees.One of my Cousins has a small printing business just outside Frankfurt.Britain could be the same maybe in the future.>;)

I never go to church and don't shoot. I guess that means I'm struggling? Some of the crap you read on PH about the US is mind blowing.

US labor laws, although heavily weighted against the employee do enable enterprise much more than the European ones. Although in theory employees have little protection the reality is that good employers want to keep good employees. Bad employees can be fired and that's how it should be.

The "joke" that was with all my wifes friends was as soon as you got a job in Fl, you started to look for another one!

Florida has "employment at will jurisdiction" law fyi.

[unrepentant]

mikal83 said:

The "joke" that was with all my wifes friends was as soon as you got a job in Fl, you started to look for another one!

Florida has "employment at will jurisdiction" law fyi.

Many states have hire at will, including mine. Good employers and good employees have no issues though, ave tenure in the company I work for is 10.5 yrs. Just like in the UK good employees are valuable and businesses hang onto them.

Hire at will doesn't mean employers are completely off the hook. If you fire someone without cause and they file for unemployment you're on the hook for it.

[scherzkeks]

mikal83 said:

The "joke" that was with all my wifes friends was as soon as you got a job in Fl, you started to look for another one!

Florida has "employment at will jurisdiction" law fyi.

Yes, the other big joke (aside from healthcare) is having a kid in the USofA. My brother has a good job in govt. and was able to take just take two weeks off to be with his newborn son. His wife went back after a measly 6 weeks.

Here in Germany, I took 5 months of parental leave, and my wife was out for 2 years. She returned to her job full-time afterward.

[unrepentant]

scherzkeks said:

Yes, the oth

Here in Germany, I took 5 months of parental leave, and my wife was out for 2 years. She returned to her job full-time afterward.

What a nightmare for businesses, having to deal with that.

[scherzkeks]

unrepentant said:

What a nightmare for businesses, having to deal with that.

You are free to support practices that put you at a disadvantage. Typical of many Americans, actually, which is why we don't have any social benefits by comparison. Kind of like Stockholm syndrome or something.

[Sam All]

unrepentant said:

scherzkeks said:

Yes, the oth

Here in Germany, I took 5 months of parental leave, and my wife was out for 2 years. She returned to her job full-time afterward.

What a nightmare for businesses, having to deal with that.

How's German industry doing? & you so negative?

[Thorodin]

That kind of employment practice sounds like regression of about one hundred years. Management by fear.