A34 Tragic crash
Discussion
Daily mail out to catch polish lorry drivers. Because only they do this.....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3895556/Ma...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3895556/Ma...
316Mining said:
Daily mail out to catch polish lorry drivers. Because only they do this.....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3895556/Ma...
Why do they all have have so many gadgets stuck to the inside of their windscreens?http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3895556/Ma...
316Mining said:
Daily mail out to catch polish lorry drivers. Because only they do this.....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3895556/Ma...
There is arguably a very different standard of driving in Eastern Europe. I remember on a school trip to Prague our coach went to overtake a lorry on a 2 lane road (with a very low speed difference) and only just managed to get back in before the brow of a hill and oncoming traffic...http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3895556/Ma...
316Mining said:
Daily mail out to catch polish lorry drivers. Because only they do this.....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3895556/Ma...
The problem is that there is little sanction that can be imposed, they cannot have their foreign license taken off them, if they get a fine they don't need to pay it Henle they are rather more likely to ignore the law.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3895556/Ma...
Same happens in motorway restricted speed limits, they just steam on through as the speeding fines don't get enforced.
In the case of the driver on the A34, he was held in custody otherwise you can bet he would have done a runner back home.
316Mining said:
Daily mail out to catch polish lorry drivers. Because only they do this.....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3895556/Ma...
What's your point? That they are racist in some way? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3895556/Ma...
Do a bit a research, you will see there is "previous" for foreign truckers not giving much of a s
t about our road rules resulting in accidents. The nationality of the driver "may" be irrelevant, but may not be. Traffic conditions, type of vehicles, types of roads and culture all "may" have a bearing on a problem like this. If laws and culture are tolerant of such behaviour in their home country, could it be there are more likely to behave similarly when in UK, or Germany etc?
Edited by s3fella on Wednesday 2nd November 08:37
cptsideways said:
Nickyboy said:
If you look carefully at the video, the rearmost car moves to the left about a second before the truck hits it, if you pause it you can see his front wheels turned to the left, sadly little too late but likely saved his life as his car was thrown into the verge instead of being crushed.
This "last second" of defensive driving saved this chaps life. Next time you pass an AA/RAC van on the hard shoulder behind a car their policy is to have the wheels locked left. If they get a rear hit the van is punted sideways dissipating the energy away from the stranded vehicle in front.
Absolutely devastating situation for those involved but why didn't anyone use the, what looks totally clear, lane 2?
s3fella said:
316Mining said:
Daily mail out to catch polish lorry drivers. Because only they do this.....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3895556/Ma...
What's your point? That they are racist in some way? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3895556/Ma...
Do a bit a research, you will see there is "previous" for foreign truckers not giving much of a s
t about our road rules resulting in accidents. The nationality of the driver "may" be irrelevant, but may not be. Traffic conditions, type of vehicles, types of roads and culture all "may" have a bearing on a problem like this. If laws and culture are tolerant of such behaviour in their home country, could it be there are more likely to behave similarly when in UK, or Germany etc?
Edited by s3fella on Wednesday 2nd November 08:37
Yes - that is a very dangerous distraction from the Daily Mail. EVERYBODY needs to be aware of the dangers. We don't need to turn it into a witch hunt against "foreign" drivers.
We need a concerted campaign similar to what was done in the 1960s,70s and 80s to combat drink driving. That worked. Drink driving is now much much rarer than it was 40 plus years ago.
But it took a long time, and a lot of government money to persuade society that drink driving was unacceptable. Is any modern government prepared to put that same sort of effort into an anti "phone/device use" campaign? I doubt it.
Regarding The Mail and its usual loathsome reaction, if the anti-drink driving campaign was getting going now, they'd probably start trying to blame the problem on the Irish.
We need a concerted campaign similar to what was done in the 1960s,70s and 80s to combat drink driving. That worked. Drink driving is now much much rarer than it was 40 plus years ago.
But it took a long time, and a lot of government money to persuade society that drink driving was unacceptable. Is any modern government prepared to put that same sort of effort into an anti "phone/device use" campaign? I doubt it.
Regarding The Mail and its usual loathsome reaction, if the anti-drink driving campaign was getting going now, they'd probably start trying to blame the problem on the Irish.
-crookedtail- said:
That video really brought it home, and if I'm honest I've been guilty of changing music on my phone whilst driving - Not anymore!
Absolutely devastating situation for those involved but why didn't anyone use the, what looks totally clear, lane 2?
The profile of the road is a bit odd at the top, and it's not uncommon for it to come to a standstill. It's quite a steep bit of road, so I suspect that sharp braking in front causes drivers to drop to a speed where they don't have the poke / feel comfortable in getting up to 70mph up hill.Absolutely devastating situation for those involved but why didn't anyone use the, what looks totally clear, lane 2?
The Devices are here to stay. Get them safe to use.
Look where that phone was plugged into. He obviously should not have been holding the phone, but imagine if the controls were integrated into the dash. He'd have no need to touch it.
To my mind the manufacturers of both devices and vehicles are paying. no attention to usability in the car and need to get their head out of their arses and come up with a common standard then integrate to in vehicle entertainment
Look where that phone was plugged into. He obviously should not have been holding the phone, but imagine if the controls were integrated into the dash. He'd have no need to touch it.
To my mind the manufacturers of both devices and vehicles are paying. no attention to usability in the car and need to get their head out of their arses and come up with a common standard then integrate to in vehicle entertainment
100% in agreement. They need to have "driver friendly" attributes that integrate with the car controls.
Interestingly, when NASA was outlining the control panel for their new Orion manned spacecraft, even though it will have state of the art colour screen displays, it will NOT have any touch screen technology. NASA decided that
a) they were hard to use wearing a pressure suit
b) they were too involving and distracting to operate
Interestingly, when NASA was outlining the control panel for their new Orion manned spacecraft, even though it will have state of the art colour screen displays, it will NOT have any touch screen technology. NASA decided that
a) they were hard to use wearing a pressure suit
b) they were too involving and distracting to operate
s3fella said:
316Mining said:
Daily mail out to catch polish lorry drivers. Because only they do this.....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3895556/Ma...
What's your point? That they are racist in some way? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3895556/Ma...
Cheshire police reported the other day that they had issued 2118 tickets so far this year for using a mobile whilst driving, I doubt they were all to foreign truck drivers.
truck71 said:
s3fella said:
316Mining said:
Daily mail out to catch polish lorry drivers. Because only they do this.....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3895556/Ma...
What's your point? That they are racist in some way? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3895556/Ma...
Do a bit a research, you will see there is "previous" for foreign truckers not giving much of a s
t about our road rules resulting in accidents. The nationality of the driver "may" be irrelevant, but may not be. Traffic conditions, type of vehicles, types of roads and culture all "may" have a bearing on a problem like this. If laws and culture are tolerant of such behaviour in their home country, could it be there are more likely to behave similarly when in UK, or Germany etc?
Edited by s3fella on Wednesday 2nd November 08:37
Edited to add: For the Daily Mail headline to wail "The law must be toughened" is also pretty unhelpful, but I guess "Enforcing the existing law would be a good start" won't get middle England tutting into its cornflakes.
Edited by Europa1 on Wednesday 2nd November 10:12
dogbucket said:
316Mining said:
Daily mail out to catch polish lorry drivers. Because only they do this.....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3895556/Ma...
Why do they all have have so many gadgets stuck to the inside of their windscreens?http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3895556/Ma...
The things stuck to the windscreen look similar on all the pictures so I imagine they are something to do with the toll booths on the continent or something like that?
The Media shouting for "more law" is one of the biggest negative issues in this country. It's because of this type of hysteria that we end up with useless legislation like The Dangerous Dogs Act or Anti-Ticket Touting Laws.
We don't need changes to the law. The law in this area is good enough. We need enforcing of the laws.
We don't need changes to the law. The law in this area is good enough. We need enforcing of the laws.
truck71 said:
It's arguably an unhelpful slant on what is a very serious issue. Driving round the North Circular in London the use of mobile phones has, imo, no demographic specifics- it's everywhere. The worst I've seen in the last few days was in Derbyshire, woman in a car with infant in the rear, texting whilst turning right from a minor to a major road. Not sure how focussing on one part of the demographic helps and may hinder the discussion by assuming other demographics don't do it..
it could be argued that focussing on a demographic of truck drivers is "fair" as the consequences can be so much higher when a large heavy vehicle is involved? Also, they are "professional" drivers too so really should appreciate the consequences of their actions can be higher, personally, ie loss of income etc. So to ignore the law smats of really not giving a st do as they likeys, ie the sort we should not have to share the road with. I read and article about 8 years ago about their being a disproportionate incidence of HGV accidents involving foreign drivers thought to be due to the issues of LHD vehicles and blindspots and IIRC the most common nationality for the perp was Polish, further Eastern European countries following thereafter. Be interested to see if there are any more recent stats for this now, or if they don't collate it anymore as it is "racist!".
This A34 case is reminiscent of the Portugese trucker who killed 6 people on the M6 back in 2009, watching DVDs and playing on his laptop.
I agree that young females do seem to be the most common perps in such cases though and should be done for it .
I am all for fitting these in your car.
https://www.zazzle.co.uk/put_down_the_phone_red_bu...
Edited by s3fella on Wednesday 2nd November 11:34
Surely some mass pulling of phone culrpits would have an effect. I cannot remember the last time I ever saw a roadside check for anything which unlike many parts of the EU/Eastern Europe where is actually quite normal. The Czech Republic for example I'd say it would be normal to pulled into a roadside check at least once in a two week visit.
All its takes is some eyes on a bridge etc & literally pull away. The fact is currently you can get away with it 99% of the time. Individually it's difficult to police but it's dead easy where heavy traffic is passing by with a good view.
Dishing out 6 points en masse would get an awful lot of drivers off the roads pdq. I also think impounding vehicles would a have better effect than just points.
All its takes is some eyes on a bridge etc & literally pull away. The fact is currently you can get away with it 99% of the time. Individually it's difficult to police but it's dead easy where heavy traffic is passing by with a good view.
Dishing out 6 points en masse would get an awful lot of drivers off the roads pdq. I also think impounding vehicles would a have better effect than just points.
s3fella said:
truck71 said:
It's arguably an unhelpful slant on what is a very serious issue. Driving round the North Circular in London the use of mobile phones has, imo, no demographic specifics- it's everywhere. The worst I've seen in the last few days was in Derbyshire, woman in a car with infant in the rear, texting whilst turning right from a minor to a major road. Not sure how focussing on one part of the demographic helps and may hinder the discussion by assuming other demographics don't do it..
it could be argued that focussing on a demographic of truck drivers is "fair" as the consequences can be so much higher when a large heavy vehicle is involved? Also, they are "professional" drivers too so really should appreciate the consequences of their actions can be higher, personally, ie loss of income etc. So to ignore the law smats of really not giving a st do as they likeys, ie the sort we should not have to share the road with. I read and article about 8 years ago about their being a disproportionate incidence of HGV accidents involving foreign drivers thought to be due to the issues of LHD vehicles and blindspots and IIRC the most common nationality for the perp was Polish, further Eastern European countries following thereafter. Be interested to see if there are any more recent stats for this now, or if they don't collate it anymore as it is "racist!".
This A34 case is reminiscent of the Portugese trucker who killed 6 people on the M6 back in 2009, watching DVDs and playing on his laptop.
I agree that young females do seem to be the most common perps in such cases though and should be done for it .
Edited by s3fella on Wednesday 2nd November 11:27
s3fella said:
316Mining said:
Daily mail out to catch polish lorry drivers. Because only they do this.....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3895556/Ma...
What's your point? That they are racist in some way? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3895556/Ma...
Do a bit a research, you will see there is "previous" for foreign truckers not giving much of a s
t about our road rules resulting in accidents. The nationality of the driver "may" be irrelevant, but may not be. Traffic conditions, type of vehicles, types of roads and culture all "may" have a bearing on a problem like this. If laws and culture are tolerant of such behaviour in their home country, could it be there are more likely to behave similarly when in UK, or Germany etc?
Edited by s3fella on Wednesday 2nd November 08:37
The issue of Polish or whoever foreign lorry drivers breaking the law and evading the fines for doing so is a problem that must be addressed. If its suspected that the driver is giving false info then the answer is simple - the police should seize the vehicle on the spot if they believe he will simply ignore the issue and not pay the fine. You enforce this with on the spot fines issued and paid for on the spot, just like in France, failure to pay immediately warrants seizure of vehicle and seizure of driving license.
Word would soon get around.
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