A34 Tragic crash
Discussion
W124 said:
I deliver cars - week on week off when I'm not doing music. Can do 2, 3 thousand miles in a week easy. We are based not far from the A34/43/M40 intersection. The A34 is seriously dangerous in my opinion. The speed differential between lanes one and two is huge. On that road - that is the problem. As the car that was crushed under the lorry come up to the truck that it was pushed into I'll warrant there was traffic hammering past in lane two. People belt it up that hill. Yes - the driver could have anticipated but I use that road all the time and the speed differential into the other lane catches me out even when I'm expecting it. People sweep off the M4 or the M40 and just continues at that speed - till they are baulked by lorries or slow cars. Then, when it's clear it's foot to the floor. It is, frankly, terrifying. And that's coming from someone who will often do a thousand miles in a day. You know, for some reason this accident has haunted me a bit. To the extent that I'm looking for another job. I've had a few near misses of late - people are hell bent these days. I would also say that using the touch screen system in a Volvo or a Jag is easily as distracting as using a phone to scroll through music. More so in some ways. In both you need to use the screen to adjust even the seat heaters. Seriously stupid.
I agree totally. The A34 is simply and extended slip road between the M4 and M40 there, with none of the extra safety design of an M road - signs, crawler lanes, extended slip roads, hard shoulders, 3rd lanes on hills (check out how many 2 lane motorways go to three lanes up steep inclines - or occasionally 4 lanes!).heavy, fully loaded Trucks struggle up those inclines, and the knock on concertina effect brings cars at the back to a halt. Meanwhile other trucks coming down previous inclines will be full foot to the floor to get up the next incline.
Add that knob head not concentrating fully and its a disaster.
There was NO OBSTRUCTION on the carriageway that morning, the traffic should not have been at a standstill, but just like every other day, it does come to a complete halt.
And yes touchscreens are sh*t in cars. The manufacturers shouldn't use them. Just because a technology exists doesn't mean you have to use it. The german manufacturers don't use them do they?
TSCfree said:
surveyor said:
Why would it? It would mean presenting appropriate media on screen in a sensible format (ALA Car Play), and suppressing other apps say Facebook until the car is stopped.
If you think about it, the modern ipod music solution is no less distracting than hunting through CD's. What does not work well is the current way of displaying that information - in some cases.
Car Play - "It does all the basic stuff: phone calls, maps, music, and text messages using your voice. The idea is to keep your eyes on the road and not on your phone."If you think about it, the modern ipod music solution is no less distracting than hunting through CD's. What does not work well is the current way of displaying that information - in some cases.
So your still doing and thinking about lots of other stuff whilst trying to concentrate on the multitude of other tasks getting your vehicle from A to B safely.
Not essential in my view whilst driving.
Inhibit or put the distraction pods away - The idea is so you can concentrate on what you are doing.
Eric Mc said:
It's people that need to change - not the technology.
Up until recently I'd have agreed with you. I have a 12 year old car, it has nav, 6 cd etc. But it's all pretty simple to use, not very distracting.Recently I bought a year old car. Now everything is much more complicated it seems and, as such, potentially more distracting.
Yes, it's up to the driver how they use it, or not, and as an experienced driver, it's often not. But I can see how the more things there are 'to do' in a car the greater the potential for distraction.
Whether current standards for driving tuition have kept up with this, I don't know.
Nickyboy said:
Sat Nav, German Toll box, Belgium Toll Box, French toll box, Dart toll box, etc etc. Unlike developed countries like America where they have EZpass for tolls and bridges, Europe has a different system for each country therefore a different vehicle box for each country.
O/T:One of the benefits of EU harmonisation to make free trading easier.
Instead we'll worry about setting up an EU defence corps...
Eric Mc said:
Just because "stuff" is put in a car by the manufacturer does not make it compulsory for the occupants to have to use it. That is a societal and attitude issue that needs to be addressed - just like drink driving was 40 years ago.
That genie is out the box. The problem is a triangle between people, car, and the features that modern devices provide.To put it into another context.
An Airbus (and Boeing actually) have complex cockpits with a lot of screens and instruments. No touch screens - but they are coming. On take off the plane suppresses all warning other than a very specific list of critical failures, only allowing the warning once the plane is in the air, wheel's up and workload reduced....
That kind of safety integration can be built into devices, but it takes willing from both car and device manufacturers, and in particular an agreed communication system.
For example my Volvo is quite good at talking to my phone in ipod mode. I have scroll wheel's and a high up screen where I can select albums etc. No need to let go of the wheel. The voice commands are a bit more variable, but sometimes work. So the car knows that it's attached to my phone. Why does my phone not know that and disable a[[ notifications that are not desirable when driving such as facebook etc.?
Mark Benson said:
There's also the fact the people play music differently now.
In'tolden days, you put a casette (or in Eric's case, an 8-track
) in the machine and listen to an album, maybe FFWD through a track you don't like.
In't'slightly less olden days, you put a CD in, to skip a track you pressed a button.
In both cases, you changed volume by twisting a knob.
Mostly you could do this without looking away from the road.
Now you have the satnav on the screen and a random selection of stuff from your phone playing. You don't like the track that's on so you look down to find the bit of the screen with the bendy arrow to get out of the map, which takes you to the destination screen, you can't remember if there's one or two more presses of the bendy arrow to get you to the main menu, so you keep looking until you get there.
Then it's locating and pressing the parts of the screen for 'Audio>AUX>Marks iPhone>skip track' all while looking down.
My £50 Alpine head unit fixes that problem by allowing me to select tracks on my mobile by pressing the buttons on the head unit. Plenty of voice controlled media player apps about as well.In'tolden days, you put a casette (or in Eric's case, an 8-track
) in the machine and listen to an album, maybe FFWD through a track you don't like.In't'slightly less olden days, you put a CD in, to skip a track you pressed a button.
In both cases, you changed volume by twisting a knob.
Mostly you could do this without looking away from the road.
Now you have the satnav on the screen and a random selection of stuff from your phone playing. You don't like the track that's on so you look down to find the bit of the screen with the bendy arrow to get out of the map, which takes you to the destination screen, you can't remember if there's one or two more presses of the bendy arrow to get you to the main menu, so you keep looking until you get there.
Then it's locating and pressing the parts of the screen for 'Audio>AUX>Marks iPhone>skip track' all while looking down.
surveyor said:
That genie is out the box. The problem is a triangle between people, car, and the features that modern devices provide.
To put it into another context.
An Airbus (and Boeing actually) have complex cockpits with a lot of screens and instruments. No touch screens - but they are coming. On take off the plane suppresses all warning other than a very specific list of critical failures, only allowing the warning once the plane is in the air, wheel's up and workload reduced....
That kind of safety integration can be built into devices, but it takes willing from both car and device manufacturers, and in particular an agreed communication system.
For example my Volvo is quite good at talking to my phone in ipod mode. I have scroll wheel's and a high up screen where I can select albums etc. No need to let go of the wheel. The voice commands are a bit more variable, but sometimes work. So the car knows that it's attached to my phone. Why does my phone not know that and disable a[[ notifications that are not desirable when driving such as facebook etc.?
There are all sorts of reasons why touch screens are a bad idea in aircraft.To put it into another context.
An Airbus (and Boeing actually) have complex cockpits with a lot of screens and instruments. No touch screens - but they are coming. On take off the plane suppresses all warning other than a very specific list of critical failures, only allowing the warning once the plane is in the air, wheel's up and workload reduced....
That kind of safety integration can be built into devices, but it takes willing from both car and device manufacturers, and in particular an agreed communication system.
For example my Volvo is quite good at talking to my phone in ipod mode. I have scroll wheel's and a high up screen where I can select albums etc. No need to let go of the wheel. The voice commands are a bit more variable, but sometimes work. So the car knows that it's attached to my phone. Why does my phone not know that and disable a[[ notifications that are not desirable when driving such as facebook etc.?
Eric Mc said:
surveyor said:
That genie is out the box. The problem is a triangle between people, car, and the features that modern devices provide.
To put it into another context.
An Airbus (and Boeing actually) have complex cockpits with a lot of screens and instruments. No touch screens - but they are coming. On take off the plane suppresses all warning other than a very specific list of critical failures, only allowing the warning once the plane is in the air, wheel's up and workload reduced....
That kind of safety integration can be built into devices, but it takes willing from both car and device manufacturers, and in particular an agreed communication system.
For example my Volvo is quite good at talking to my phone in ipod mode. I have scroll wheel's and a high up screen where I can select albums etc. No need to let go of the wheel. The voice commands are a bit more variable, but sometimes work. So the car knows that it's attached to my phone. Why does my phone not know that and disable a[[ notifications that are not desirable when driving such as facebook etc.?
There are all sorts of reasons why touch screens are a bad idea in aircraft.To put it into another context.
An Airbus (and Boeing actually) have complex cockpits with a lot of screens and instruments. No touch screens - but they are coming. On take off the plane suppresses all warning other than a very specific list of critical failures, only allowing the warning once the plane is in the air, wheel's up and workload reduced....
That kind of safety integration can be built into devices, but it takes willing from both car and device manufacturers, and in particular an agreed communication system.
For example my Volvo is quite good at talking to my phone in ipod mode. I have scroll wheel's and a high up screen where I can select albums etc. No need to let go of the wheel. The voice commands are a bit more variable, but sometimes work. So the car knows that it's attached to my phone. Why does my phone not know that and disable a[[ notifications that are not desirable when driving such as facebook etc.?
surveyor said:
TSCfree said:
surveyor said:
Why would it? It would mean presenting appropriate media on screen in a sensible format (ALA Car Play), and suppressing other apps say Facebook until the car is stopped.
If you think about it, the modern ipod music solution is no less distracting than hunting through CD's. What does not work well is the current way of displaying that information - in some cases.
Car Play - "It does all the basic stuff: phone calls, maps, music, and text messages using your voice. The idea is to keep your eyes on the road and not on your phone."If you think about it, the modern ipod music solution is no less distracting than hunting through CD's. What does not work well is the current way of displaying that information - in some cases.
So your still doing and thinking about lots of other stuff whilst trying to concentrate on the multitude of other tasks getting your vehicle from A to B safely.
Not essential in my view whilst driving.
Inhibit or put the distraction pods away - The idea is so you can concentrate on what you are doing.
The task hasn't changed, if anything it's got even more challenging since the 70's.
It's busier and there are more distractions than ever. Some technology in my opinion has made it worse.
Edited by TSCfree on Thursday 3rd November 18:02
TSCfree said:
Wrong.
The task hasn't changed, if anything it's got even more challenging since the 70's.
It's busier and there are more distractions than ever. Some technology in my opinion has made it worse.
Well it would be hard to argue that some technology has not made it worse. But others a lot better. It's hard to argue that anyone needs facebook or even PH on the move.The task hasn't changed, if anything it's got even more challenging since the 70's.
It's busier and there are more distractions than ever. Some technology in my opinion has made it worse.
Edited by TSCfree on Thursday 3rd November 18:02
My key moving uses are:
Google Maps / Tom Tom. - Directions and Live traffic diverts. In some areas will use instead of factory nav.
Music - Huge library. Podcasts equally so. All accessible using the media button, then the wheel on the steering wheel....
Phone - I've yet to crash using this, and have rules in my own head that help keep my attention on the road.
Ali Chappussy said:
I hate the Daily Mail and everything it stands for but I don't think they were being racist by targeting Polish drivers. Let me explain.
To relieve the boredom of long distance driving we 'play' a series of little games, for example spotting Eddie lorries. Mrs Chappussy commented on the amount of foreign lorries there appears to be on our roads lately so we did a little count the other day. Random sample of 20 lorries on the M1 that we overtook, 5 of them were foreign registered, 4 out of the five were Polish. On the return journey did the same and the results were very similar.
We have an increasing Polish community (like it or not) and there seems to be Polish shops springing up all over the place which need stocking up, is this the reason? Who lnows.
Nothing to do with supplying Polish shops etc, it's simply cheap labour. A Polish/Romanian/Bulgarian driver will work for a month on what a British driver would be paid a week, they'll also get travel expenses etc so it's seen as a very good job in Eastern Europe, companies are paid by the load so having 5x the drivers delivering for the cost of one British/French etc driver means the bosses are coining it in. It doesn't matter where you are in Europe, it'll still be cheaper for an EE driver to collect and deliver elsewhere in Europe. To relieve the boredom of long distance driving we 'play' a series of little games, for example spotting Eddie lorries. Mrs Chappussy commented on the amount of foreign lorries there appears to be on our roads lately so we did a little count the other day. Random sample of 20 lorries on the M1 that we overtook, 5 of them were foreign registered, 4 out of the five were Polish. On the return journey did the same and the results were very similar.
We have an increasing Polish community (like it or not) and there seems to be Polish shops springing up all over the place which need stocking up, is this the reason? Who lnows.
surveyor said:
Just goes to show they are all going mad.surveyor said:
TSCfree said:
Wrong.
The task hasn't changed, if anything it's got even more challenging since the 70's.
It's busier and there are more distractions than ever. Some technology in my opinion has made it worse.
Well it would be hard to argue that some technology has not made it worse. But others a lot better. It's hard to argue that anyone needs facebook or even PH on the move.The task hasn't changed, if anything it's got even more challenging since the 70's.
It's busier and there are more distractions than ever. Some technology in my opinion has made it worse.
Edited by TSCfree on Thursday 3rd November 18:02
My key moving uses are:
Google Maps / Tom Tom. - Directions and Live traffic diverts. In some areas will use instead of factory nav.
Music - Huge library. Podcasts equally so. All accessible using the media button, then the wheel on the steering wheel....
Phone - I've yet to crash using this, and have rules in my own head that help keep my attention on the road.
If it's also dangerous to read a text whilst driving then in my view it's also unacceptable to have to scroll through playlists and have to find a suitable track whilst looking at the centre console and trying to read on a tiny lcd display, even it your hands are on the steering wheel...
Again, because manufacturers are allowing you to do this, it's become acceptable to do on any level, no matter what the device/system, aux in, etc. Whether you believe we should nanny to the lowest denominator is probably for anther topic, but i do think there needs to be more thinking behind in-car information management, such as where it's displayed and when it can be accessed.
TSCfree said:
surveyor said:
TSCfree said:
Wrong.
The task hasn't changed, if anything it's got even more challenging since the 70's.
It's busier and there are more distractions than ever. Some technology in my opinion has made it worse.
Well it would be hard to argue that some technology has not made it worse. But others a lot better. It's hard to argue that anyone needs facebook or even PH on the move.The task hasn't changed, if anything it's got even more challenging since the 70's.
It's busier and there are more distractions than ever. Some technology in my opinion has made it worse.
Edited by TSCfree on Thursday 3rd November 18:02
My key moving uses are:
Google Maps / Tom Tom. - Directions and Live traffic diverts. In some areas will use instead of factory nav.
Music - Huge library. Podcasts equally so. All accessible using the media button, then the wheel on the steering wheel....
Phone - I've yet to crash using this, and have rules in my own head that help keep my attention on the road.
If it's also dangerous to read a text whilst driving then in my view it's also unacceptable to have to scroll through playlists and have to find a suitable track whilst looking at the centre console and trying to read on a tiny lcd display, even it your hands are on the steering wheel...
Again, because manufacturers are allowing you to do this, it's become acceptable to do on any level, no matter what the device/system, aux in, etc. Whether you believe we should nanny to the lowest denominator is probably for anther topic, but i do think there needs to be more thinking behind in-car information management, such as where it's displayed and when it can be accessed.
Until then, infotainment menus are incompatible with driving. But sadly, the ship sailed a decade or more ago, and the law couldn't keep up. The answer now is policing, and I'd like to see (as an earlier poster suggested) more bike patrols. TBH, a cctv system at most junctions would record more offences than the most profitable speed camera.
Redlake27 said:
TSCfree said:
surveyor said:
TSCfree said:
Wrong.
The task hasn't changed, if anything it's got even more challenging since the 70's.
It's busier and there are more distractions than ever. Some technology in my opinion has made it worse.
Well it would be hard to argue that some technology has not made it worse. But others a lot better. It's hard to argue that anyone needs facebook or even PH on the move.The task hasn't changed, if anything it's got even more challenging since the 70's.
It's busier and there are more distractions than ever. Some technology in my opinion has made it worse.
Edited by TSCfree on Thursday 3rd November 18:02
My key moving uses are:
Google Maps / Tom Tom. - Directions and Live traffic diverts. In some areas will use instead of factory nav.
Music - Huge library. Podcasts equally so. All accessible using the media button, then the wheel on the steering wheel....
Phone - I've yet to crash using this, and have rules in my own head that help keep my attention on the road.
If it's also dangerous to read a text whilst driving then in my view it's also unacceptable to have to scroll through playlists and have to find a suitable track whilst looking at the centre console and trying to read on a tiny lcd display, even it your hands are on the steering wheel...
Again, because manufacturers are allowing you to do this, it's become acceptable to do on any level, no matter what the device/system, aux in, etc. Whether you believe we should nanny to the lowest denominator is probably for anther topic, but i do think there needs to be more thinking behind in-car information management, such as where it's displayed and when it can be accessed.
Until then, infotainment menus are incompatible with driving. But sadly, the ship sailed a decade or more ago, and the law couldn't keep up. The answer now is policing, and I'd like to see (as an earlier poster suggested) more bike patrols. TBH, a cctv system at most junctions would record more offences than the most profitable speed camera.
For instance did you see where the phone in the crashed lorry was plugged into? Up above the drivers head. Even the bog standard old fashioned car radio is way out of site in that position, let along having an integrated easy to use screen.
Another HGV driver on his phone.
Mail said:
Six years for lorry driver who was using mobile phone to break-up with one girlfriend and sending Facebook messages to another when he ploughed into traffic killing two men on a motorway
Keith Mees's HGV ploughed into Ford and shunted it into another lorry
Crash flattened 15ft 7in car into mere inches on M271 in Southampton
Mees had been using phone to play music videos and make phone calls
Driver admitted causing death and serious injury by dangerous driving
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3994354/Lo...
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Keith Mees's HGV ploughed into Ford and shunted it into another lorry
Crash flattened 15ft 7in car into mere inches on M271 in Southampton
Mees had been using phone to play music videos and make phone calls
Driver admitted causing death and serious injury by dangerous driving
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3994354/Lo...
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
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