Families need more help with tackling childhood obesity?!
Discussion
Jockman said:
Foliage said:
mcdonalds meals are neither unhealthy or fattening... big mac, small fries and a diet drink is 740 calories,
2200/3 is 733 calories, so that's one of your 3 meals a day or a main meal, you could easily go upto 1000 calories for one of your meals a day. The issue isn't what people are eating but how much. Neither salt nor fat is bad for you, that's been disproven numerous times. Calories are the killer.
Ill often have a double cheese burger as one of my meals if im on the road, 440 calories is a reasonable lunch.
I'm really not sure how true that is. Surely unsaturated fat / excess salt / excess sugar is the killer?2200/3 is 733 calories, so that's one of your 3 meals a day or a main meal, you could easily go upto 1000 calories for one of your meals a day. The issue isn't what people are eating but how much. Neither salt nor fat is bad for you, that's been disproven numerous times. Calories are the killer.
Ill often have a double cheese burger as one of my meals if im on the road, 440 calories is a reasonable lunch.
Burwood said:
Jockman said:
Foliage said:
mcdonalds meals are neither unhealthy or fattening... big mac, small fries and a diet drink is 740 calories,
2200/3 is 733 calories, so that's one of your 3 meals a day or a main meal, you could easily go upto 1000 calories for one of your meals a day. The issue isn't what people are eating but how much. Neither salt nor fat is bad for you, that's been disproven numerous times. Calories are the killer.
Ill often have a double cheese burger as one of my meals if im on the road, 440 calories is a reasonable lunch.
I'm really not sure how true that is. Surely unsaturated fat / excess salt / excess sugar is the killer?2200/3 is 733 calories, so that's one of your 3 meals a day or a main meal, you could easily go upto 1000 calories for one of your meals a day. The issue isn't what people are eating but how much. Neither salt nor fat is bad for you, that's been disproven numerous times. Calories are the killer.
Ill often have a double cheese burger as one of my meals if im on the road, 440 calories is a reasonable lunch.
Jockman said:
Burwood said:
Jockman said:
Foliage said:
mcdonalds meals are neither unhealthy or fattening... big mac, small fries and a diet drink is 740 calories,
2200/3 is 733 calories, so that's one of your 3 meals a day or a main meal, you could easily go upto 1000 calories for one of your meals a day. The issue isn't what people are eating but how much. Neither salt nor fat is bad for you, that's been disproven numerous times. Calories are the killer.
Ill often have a double cheese burger as one of my meals if im on the road, 440 calories is a reasonable lunch.
I'm really not sure how true that is. Surely unsaturated fat / excess salt / excess sugar is the killer?2200/3 is 733 calories, so that's one of your 3 meals a day or a main meal, you could easily go upto 1000 calories for one of your meals a day. The issue isn't what people are eating but how much. Neither salt nor fat is bad for you, that's been disproven numerous times. Calories are the killer.
Ill often have a double cheese burger as one of my meals if im on the road, 440 calories is a reasonable lunch.
Burwood said:
Of course, in terms of overall heath, arteries, heart, liver etc. But in terms of getting fat, no. calories do not discriminate. It's all energy and ones body stores surplus as fat.
I see what you mean. I was questioning the claim that they were nether unhealthy nor fattening. You are describing the mechanics of calories.I suppose you could add to that the pressure on joints and potential MSDs later in life.
Jockman said:
Surely the type of food you eat on a regular basis is important? Is there not a difference between saturated and unsaturated fat (tryglycerides etc)?
On superfats this week the avocado popped up.Put it on a burger, and it makes the burger healthier, the good fat in the avocado negates some of the bad fat in the burger.
It's a great programme.
https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/protein-wil...
Edited by Halb on Thursday 18th August 17:15
Halb said:
On superfats this week the avocado popped up.
Put it on a burger, and it makes the burger healthier, the good fat in the avocado negates some of the bad fat in the burger.
It's a great programme.
It is very interesting that !!Put it on a burger, and it makes the burger healthier, the good fat in the avocado negates some of the bad fat in the burger.
It's a great programme.
My cholesterol is higher than it should be but because my HDL to LDL/VLDL ratio is good there is no reason for further action apparently.
Vandenberg said:
Smollet said:
The mother wasn't exactly slim either. Hardly a role model more of a roll one.
Pretty far removed from slim, but at least it would be easy to find her bedroom if you pulled her, just follow the trail of peanuts.........I'm overweight but I don't go bleating to my quack about it.
Smollet said:
Vandenberg said:
Smollet said:
The mother wasn't exactly slim either. Hardly a role model more of a roll one.
Pretty far removed from slim, but at least it would be easy to find her bedroom if you pulled her, just follow the trail of peanuts.........I'm overweight but I don't go bleating to my quack about it.
My sister is obese, when she was pregnant she was bluntly told by a midwife she was fat and it wasn't healthy to be fat and pregnant; my sister made a complaint and the midwife was reprimanded.
I don't know what the solution is, my sister drinks gallons of full fat coke a day, her kids aren't fat; yet, however their diet is appalling; McDonald's twice a week, fruit shoots to drink, chips and something in breadcrumbs as they are "fussy eaters", lots of sweets, my niece had two teeth removed when she was 5; my sister is a primary school teacher, her husband an accountant, both should know better.
130R said:
Education and personal responsibility is the only answer. People blaming the government for their kids being fat is pathetic. They need to look in the mirror to see who is really culpable.
The calls for better education assume that a significant part of the problem is ignorance. It isn't.The problem is terrible decision-making. In spite of what we know intellectually we ALL make loads of emotional, instinctive decisions that on reflection are pants. That's just human nature and there's no point proposing a solution for smoking, obesity, excessive drinking or whatever that doesn't take into account how we actually make decisions.
For example, for years people were told that drink driving was a bad idea. People knew this, but in spite of that enough people kept on doing it that it remained a serious problem. The government changed tack and ran adverts that basically said "if you drink-drive your mates will think you're a tosser". That message hit home. It turns out that the urge to not be thought a tosser trumps the convenience gained by knowingly putting your own and other people's lives at risk. That's a classic example of dealing with people as they actually are, tapping into how our minds really work, in order to change our behaviour. It is pointless to propose solutions that require people to be rational automata when they so obviously are not.
I have crap self-control when it comes to food. If there's a pack of biscuits to hand, I'll merrily eat the lot. Can I stop myself? Yeah, of course, but if they are there in front of me it requires a sustained effort of will to not eat them. If I've just eaten one there is a sharp physical urge to start eating another; an actual sensation of pain. So guess what? The easiest way of avoiding this is to not have a packet of biscuits lying around in the first place. Education? Not the problem. More will power? What the hell does that even mean? If I rustle round in the kitchen drawers, am I going to stumble across a box of will power tablets? What steps are you supposed to take to boost your will power? The simple effective solution is to just remove the temptation.
Inconvenience, expense and embarrassment are powerful tools when it comes to modifying behaviour. Appealing for stronger will power and better education just don't deliver change.
This problem is not going to be fixed by fiddling around with the amount of sugar in foods. Recent experience tells me that the problems are very different. My youngest son (11) is lardy. In fact at the end of the last school term I was horrified to see that he was effectively obese when jumping in a swimming pool. This is nothing to do with diet - he hardly touches soft drinks or sweets, he actually eats pretty healthily. He just eats too much and does f-all exercise. The inevitable outcome is that he piles it on.
School can't say to him "you fat f****er, put down that pie", that emotional bullying or something. When they try and make him do exercise he claims he has broken his ankle/has cancer/his arms have fallen off/has a headache/is allergic to exercise and the soft headed idiots believe him.
Needless to say, something is being done this holiday - he's going running. Boat loads of tears in week 1, he was basically being beasted round a field by me or the missus equipped with a sharp stick. 5 weeks in, he's lost more than a stone, I've lost a stone and the missus has lost half a stone. He's almost starting to enjoy it now.
No change in diet at all - just no seconds and more exercise.
School can't say to him "you fat f****er, put down that pie", that emotional bullying or something. When they try and make him do exercise he claims he has broken his ankle/has cancer/his arms have fallen off/has a headache/is allergic to exercise and the soft headed idiots believe him.
Needless to say, something is being done this holiday - he's going running. Boat loads of tears in week 1, he was basically being beasted round a field by me or the missus equipped with a sharp stick. 5 weeks in, he's lost more than a stone, I've lost a stone and the missus has lost half a stone. He's almost starting to enjoy it now.
No change in diet at all - just no seconds and more exercise.
Smollet said:
I suspect they didn't have a wide angle lens big enough to get her all in so they just concentrated on her head. I'm surprised the doctor didn't just you're very fat and so is your child. Do something about it and stop wasting my time.
I'm overweight but I don't go bleating to my quack about it.
From what I understand the Drs aren't allowed to dish out robust advice to patients anymore. Patient feelings are more important than patient outcomes.I'm overweight but I don't go bleating to my quack about it.
The last two posts have the solution: peer pressure.
I'd strongly argue the reduction in numbers of smokers is f
k all to do with lack of adverts/pub ban/tax, and all to do with the adverts that told non smokers that smokers were killing them.
As said, same for drink driving.
Problem is, the government don't mind calling you a when it's perceived as something you choose. Whilst people choose to make the decisions about what they eat or do to control their weight, society has come to believe that it's not the result of a choice, but 'natural'.
Get some ads running that show how much it costs normal weight people in tax to pay for obesity related diseases and you'll soon see a change. Stop fannying about, and use embarrassment and piss taking from peers to do the job, it'll do it very effectively.
Of course there will be some that won't be able to cope and will suffer depression/suicide/etc. There will also be some for whom there is a genetic or other barrier to effective weight control. These are the very, very, tiny few - the mass(!) will grumble about hurt feelings then sort themselves out.
I'd strongly argue the reduction in numbers of smokers is f
k all to do with lack of adverts/pub ban/tax, and all to do with the adverts that told non smokers that smokers were killing them. As said, same for drink driving.
Problem is, the government don't mind calling you a
when it's perceived as something you choose. Whilst people choose to make the decisions about what they eat or do to control their weight, society has come to believe that it's not the result of a choice, but 'natural'. Get some ads running that show how much it costs normal weight people in tax to pay for obesity related diseases and you'll soon see a change. Stop fannying about, and use embarrassment and piss taking from peers to do the job, it'll do it very effectively.
Of course there will be some that won't be able to cope and will suffer depression/suicide/etc. There will also be some for whom there is a genetic or other barrier to effective weight control. These are the very, very, tiny few - the mass(!) will grumble about hurt feelings then sort themselves out.
Vandenberg said:
Smollet said:
I suspect they didn't have a wide angle lens big enough to get her all in so they just concentrated on her head. I'm surprised the doctor didn't just you're very fat and so is your child. Do something about it and stop wasting my time.
I'm overweight but I don't go bleating to my quack about it.
From what I understand the Drs aren't allowed to dish out robust advice to patients anymore. Patient feelings are more important than patient outcomes.I'm overweight but I don't go bleating to my quack about it.
The big problem I have with food that is high in sugar is that you do not feel as full for as long as you would if you ate the same amount of calories made up from mostly fat (particularly saturated fat) or protein or fibre. I remember Eddie Hall (Britain's strongest man) being asked how to add calories to your diet (as you need an excess of calories to build muscle and get stronger), he said eat a Mars bar after every meal.
Last time I looked as McD's Big Mac it had a very high percentage of its calories from sugar based carbs (8g, or ~15 teaspoons) when compared to a similar calorie burger from one of those hipster all grass fed burger joints. I can eat two or three Big Macs in a sitting, I struggle to eat a double patty hipster burger.
I'm all in favour of forcing the food and drink industry to cut sugary carbs in food, it isn't the whole answer but it is a good step in the right direction. I've been fat then thin three times now, average swings of 50kg each time, and every time I start losing weight I have to cut the sugary rubbish from my diet otherwise I can't stick to my calorie allowance for the day. Cut the sugar out and it becomes trivial.
Last time I looked as McD's Big Mac it had a very high percentage of its calories from sugar based carbs (8g, or ~15 teaspoons) when compared to a similar calorie burger from one of those hipster all grass fed burger joints. I can eat two or three Big Macs in a sitting, I struggle to eat a double patty hipster burger.
I'm all in favour of forcing the food and drink industry to cut sugary carbs in food, it isn't the whole answer but it is a good step in the right direction. I've been fat then thin three times now, average swings of 50kg each time, and every time I start losing weight I have to cut the sugary rubbish from my diet otherwise I can't stick to my calorie allowance for the day. Cut the sugar out and it becomes trivial.
ATG said:
More will power? What the hell does that even mean? If I rustle round in the kitchen drawers, am I going to stumble across a box of will power tablets? What steps are you supposed to take to boost your will power? The simple effective solution is to just remove the temptation.
Inconvenience, expense and embarrassment are powerful tools when it comes to modifying behaviour. Appealing for stronger will power and better education just don't deliver change.
If I put a packet of biscuits next to you, and offered you a million pounds if you don't eat any of them, I suspect you'd find the willpower to resist.Inconvenience, expense and embarrassment are powerful tools when it comes to modifying behaviour. Appealing for stronger will power and better education just don't deliver change.
Burwood said:
Jockman said:
Foliage said:
mcdonalds meals are neither unhealthy or fattening... big mac, small fries and a diet drink is 740 calories,
2200/3 is 733 calories, so that's one of your 3 meals a day or a main meal, you could easily go upto 1000 calories for one of your meals a day. The issue isn't what people are eating but how much. Neither salt nor fat is bad for you, that's been disproven numerous times. Calories are the killer.
Ill often have a double cheese burger as one of my meals if im on the road, 440 calories is a reasonable lunch.
I'm really not sure how true that is. Surely unsaturated fat / excess salt / excess sugar is the killer?2200/3 is 733 calories, so that's one of your 3 meals a day or a main meal, you could easily go upto 1000 calories for one of your meals a day. The issue isn't what people are eating but how much. Neither salt nor fat is bad for you, that's been disproven numerous times. Calories are the killer.
Ill often have a double cheese burger as one of my meals if im on the road, 440 calories is a reasonable lunch.
Fat, was for a long time "the enemy", everything was low fat, but laden with sugar, very 1980s thinking.
Get more protein and a sensible amount of fats, and the carbs you do eat shouldnt be of the refined types.
If it really was as simple as 'eat less and do more' we wouldn't have an obesity epidemic going on. Yes the basic science behind it is simple but actually putting it into practice is extremely challenging for many, I mean It is quite rare to see someone who is morbidly obese lose weight AND keep it off naturally. When it comes to food bad habits start very early on in life and it is hard to break them. I don't buy into the nanny state nonsense but the government clearly has a role to play, just like it does in the regulation of cigs and alcohol to < 18s.
As for diet well there is so much debate around it and the guidelines seem to shift all the time. Some say a calorie is a calorie and technically it is, but even that is a simplistic way to view things. Try eating 2000 calories of chocolate a day and you are going to be getting huge quantities of saturated fat and sugar with virtually no nutrients whatsoever. As as a result you would be constantly hungry and craving the next sugar fix.
On the other hand many people would physically struggle to eat 2000 calories made up of protein, fats and minimal carbs...for example 3 meals of oily fish or chicken and a mixture of non-starchy veg.
I guess calorie density matters is what I'm trying to say.
As for diet well there is so much debate around it and the guidelines seem to shift all the time. Some say a calorie is a calorie and technically it is, but even that is a simplistic way to view things. Try eating 2000 calories of chocolate a day and you are going to be getting huge quantities of saturated fat and sugar with virtually no nutrients whatsoever. As as a result you would be constantly hungry and craving the next sugar fix.
On the other hand many people would physically struggle to eat 2000 calories made up of protein, fats and minimal carbs...for example 3 meals of oily fish or chicken and a mixture of non-starchy veg.
I guess calorie density matters is what I'm trying to say.
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