9.9bn Quid, 0% tax. Tell me PH, How is this fair?

9.9bn Quid, 0% tax. Tell me PH, How is this fair?

Author
Discussion

Zombie

Original Poster:

1,587 posts

194 months

gruffalo

7,509 posts

225 months

Saturday 20th August 2016
quotequote all
Hard to argue that it is fair so I won't begin to try.

My view is that no one should pay it.


s2art

18,937 posts

252 months

Saturday 20th August 2016
quotequote all
To me the question is why does inheritance tax exist at all? Either the assets/money has already been taxed or it hasnt. Similarly for capital gains tax, if already taxed earnings, well invested, gains value, then why is it subject to further tax? We recognize that for home ownership.

PurpleMoonlight

22,362 posts

156 months

Saturday 20th August 2016
quotequote all
Taxing death is disgusting. Anyone that manages to avoid it is to be applauded.

gooner1

10,223 posts

178 months

Saturday 20th August 2016
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
Taxing death is disgusting. Anyone that manages to avoid it is to be applauded.
If anyone has any tips on avoiding death, could they please forward them on. TIA.

Impasse

15,099 posts

240 months

Saturday 20th August 2016
quotequote all
What a wonderfully predictable sign-off paragraph by the author, Richard Murphy:

Murphy said:
To put it another way, 800 years of claims by an elite to be above the law applicable to everyone else so that wealth can remain in the hands of the few has to be brought to an end. And if now is not the time to do it, I am really not sure when it will be.
But he's right in a way. Now is not the time to redistribute wealth. It never will be. Inheritance tax should be abolished.

krisdelta

4,566 posts

200 months

Saturday 20th August 2016
quotequote all
If income tax and corporation tax were structured correctly and a simple "one rule for all" then there would be no need to have this hugely destructive tax.

Oddly enough it's the wealthy who are most able to afford the best advice to circumvent the absurdly complex rules. Written by the wealthy, for the wealthy. No rules / laws have been broken?

That said, inheritance tax is not a good tax and should be abolished for all.

grumbledoak

31,499 posts

232 months

Saturday 20th August 2016
quotequote all
Isn't the Guardian organised as a trust so it doesn't have to pay tax?

Wilmslowboy

4,189 posts

205 months

Saturday 20th August 2016
quotequote all
I thought the inheritance tax idea was to try and even out individuals life chances....

Why should someone gain from a pot of money just because their father, or their father's father or even going back many generations before him was....lucky/war load/ gangster/brilliant / hard working....etc etc

Saying that I am really torn on the subject.....

Wife and I didn't get a single penny or will from our respective parents (in fact over the years we have supported our parents to the tune of many tens of thousands) ...we don't need inheritance or want it.

Yet the thought that my own kids will not get what's left after we pass away - fills me with rage........ Big fat contradiction biggrin


williamp

19,213 posts

272 months

Saturday 20th August 2016
quotequote all
grumbledoak said:
Isn't the Guardian organised as a trust so it doesn't have to pay tax?
in the cayman islands, yes.

To answer the OP, to me it is fair in two ways:

1) Its already had tax paid on it. Someone has died, who should the government help themselves to another helping?

2) Legally the assets are in trust. My understanding is that when he died his family did not inherit 9.9bn in cash. His asstes, the business passed onto him and the business is worth 9bn. But to say the tax needs paying would mean the assets are realised. In other words, sell every aspect of the business, sack all the staff, raise the cash....then pay tax on it. Its a bit like (god forbid) your parent dies and, rather then you inherit the TV, wardrobe etc you need to sell everything to raise cash to pay IHT on it. EVERYTHING. Family photos, momentoes. How is this fair?

His children, no doubt benefit from income trusts but their income will be taxed in the way everyone else's is. I imagine the total tax income from his business affairs is stil way, way larger then most of the population's

Edited by williamp on Saturday 20th August 08:14

Doofus

25,732 posts

172 months

Saturday 20th August 2016
quotequote all
IHT is unfair and wrong. Avoiding IHT wherever possible is right, good and proper.

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Saturday 20th August 2016
quotequote all
As I understand it, this is nothing do with inheritance tax - nothing has been inherited and hence no inheritance tax is due.

ellroy

7,005 posts

224 months

Saturday 20th August 2016
quotequote all
It's a pernicious iniquitous tax and the mealy mouthed Guradian are up to the usual trick of the left.

Do as I say not as I do. Coupled to a big dollop of envy.

gazza285

9,780 posts

207 months

Saturday 20th August 2016
quotequote all
grumbledoak said:
Isn't the Guardian organised as a trust so it doesn't have to pay tax?
Sure is, just like the Labour Party.

Randy Winkman

16,021 posts

188 months

Saturday 20th August 2016
quotequote all
If we get rid of inheritance tax, which tax should we put up to make up the difference?

jonah35

3,940 posts

156 months

Saturday 20th August 2016
quotequote all
Iht is necessary and fairer than cgt and income tax. Without it the rich would get richer and the poor would stay poor.

The money is in a trust so there will be tax to pay just not iht.

Derek Smith

45,514 posts

247 months

Saturday 20th August 2016
quotequote all
Randy Winkman said:
If we get rid of inheritance tax, which tax should we put up to make up the difference?
This, of course, is the crux of the matter.

Who better to tax than the dead? They don't notice it. They are dead.


TwigtheWonderkid

43,248 posts

149 months

Saturday 20th August 2016
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
Taxing death is disgusting.
IHT doesn't tax death, dead people can't pay tax. It taxes the beneficiaries of the estate.

The government needs to raise tax. To pay for stuff we all need, to a greater or lesser degree. The ideal tax is one that doesn't plunge the person paying into poverty, nor stop them from buying stuff because that keeps the economy going. In this respect IHT is perfect. The dead person doesn't notice it at all, being dead and all that, and the beneficiaries of the estate are still getting a decent amount they never had yesterday, and haven't earned. What's not to like.

And as for being taxed twice, well in most cases it isn't. Most of my wealth comes from London house price inflation, on which I haven't paid a bean in tax. I'm talking hundreds of thousands, totally unearned and tax free. And even if it was tax on money already taxed, so what. I've been taxed on my income, and then I pay VAT, insurance tax, fuel tax, council tax etc out of taxed income. So being taxed on taxed money is nothing new.


technodup

7,576 posts

129 months

Saturday 20th August 2016
quotequote all
Randy Winkman said:
If we get rid of inheritance tax, which tax should we put up to make up the difference?
I know this'll come way out of left field but we could always spend less so there's no difference to make up?

I've not read the article but IHT is the scummiest of all taxes. You earn some money, the government tax it. You save the rest to earn some interest, the government tax it again. You buy a house and they tax that too. You make some money from investment, guess what? And when you die they take a substantial chunk for a final hurrah. The same money being taxed over and over.

IHT iirc was intended only to be paid by the top percentile. With house property increases now virtually anyone with a house pays, because they haven't moved the threshold in accordance. Nice.

TwigtheWonderkid

43,248 posts

149 months

Saturday 20th August 2016
quotequote all
technodup said:
I've not read the article but IHT is the scummiest of all taxes. You earn some money, the government tax it. You save the rest to earn some interest, the government tax it again. You buy a house and they tax that too. You make some money from investment, guess what? And when you die they take a substantial chunk for a final hurrah. The same money being taxed over and over.
In your own example above, the bit where you say "You make some money from investment"..... that never got taxed. Even in your own story it never got taxed. So that money isn't being taxed over and over, it's been taxed for the first time.

And for many people, that'll be the bulk of the estate.