Job Selection Ciriteria

Author
Discussion

finnie

Original Poster:

166 posts

185 months

Sunday 21st August 2016
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Was having a conversation at work today, thought I would put the jist out in PH world.

How far will political correctness and or discrimination prevention go in the job selection process?

At the moment certain criteria are thought of as discriminatory: Gender, age, physical size. In some cases these must surely matter. Being careful I am not going to mention any exceptions yet.

How far will it go? I am sure there will be examples where someone has been hired because of their gender. Two people applying for a job, one male, one female. One is deemed more suitable for the position but the other is chosen because said company already has a deemed bias towards the opposite gender!

Will it reach the point where you cannot NOT employ someone because they dont have a qualification. ie you should provide them with training. Employ a person to be a teacher when they dont have the qualification because not choosing them is deemed as discrimination

Dr Jekyll

23,820 posts

260 months

Sunday 21st August 2016
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finnie said:
Employ a person to be a teacher when they dont have the qualification because not choosing them is deemed as discrimination
Strictly speaking not employing someone because they aren't qualified is discrimination.
What gets forgotten is that there is nothing inherently wrong with discrimination, if you have more applicants that jobs then you have to discriminate, the issue is how you discriminate. But people who cry 'discrimination' as if it's automatically wrong don't seem to get that.

Moominho

893 posts

139 months

Sunday 21st August 2016
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finnie said:
Will it reach the point where you cannot NOT employ someone because they dont have a qualification. ie you should provide them with training. Employ a person to be a teacher when they dont have the qualification because not choosing them is deemed as discrimination
No.

craigjm

17,908 posts

199 months

Sunday 21st August 2016
quotequote all
There are no laws saying you have to have a gender / race / disability etc "quota" or any other kind of balance in a workforce. Any sensible company would have a recruitment assessment process in place to get the best candidate they can and any other characteristics are not applicable. There are very few exceptions such as you wouldn't really want to hire a blind person if you were in the business of forgery detection being flippant). There are some companies out there (most notably public and charity sector) who will try and replicate where possible the demographics of the area they are serving or similar but not many.

I can never forsee a situation where someone would be recruited who needs to be trained to do the job when there are better candidates available.

Your post sounds like the start of a beef that someone got a job over you / someone you know because they were black / disabled / a woman etc to try to balance an organisation. There are laws against positive discrimination (employing a woman say just because you don't have any in your company) but there are no laws against positive action (making it easier for someone to get a job in your company when they have certain characteristics - two tick guaranteed interview scheme for disabled people is one such scheme)

Wobbegong

15,077 posts

168 months

Sunday 21st August 2016
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The police were rejecting white male applicants a few years back as they were on a 'minority drive'

TwigtheWonderkid

43,248 posts

149 months

Sunday 21st August 2016
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finnie said:
At the moment certain criteria are thought of as discriminatory: Gender, age, physical size. In some cases these must surely matter.
In the cases where they matter, you can discriminate. Unfair discrimination is not allowed, but fair and reasonable discrimination is lawful.

So, you are under no obligation to interview a male for the job of bra fitter, or a 55 yr old to play in the premier league, or Denzil Washington to play the part of Boris Johnson in a film.

BJG1

5,966 posts

211 months

Sunday 21st August 2016
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There is a clear discrimination against short men in the workplace in terms of pay and career advancement, maybe that should be next. At 5 foot 6 I hope so!

craigjm

17,908 posts

199 months

Sunday 21st August 2016
quotequote all
Wobbegong said:
The police were rejecting white male applicants a few years back as they were on a 'minority drive'
That wasn't every force and would be covered under what I said about public bodies reflecting the communities that they serve.

PH XKR

1,761 posts

101 months

Sunday 21st August 2016
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Where will it end? It will end where white men can no longer get a job, especially white middle class men because lets face it working class jobs don't attract the sort of hiring mentality that applies political correctness - can you turn a spanner? Good, you're hired.

GetCarter

29,358 posts

278 months

Sunday 21st August 2016
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In my line of work, and many creative & tech industries; age, gender, colour, creed - all totally irrelevant. It's just what you can do.

Edited by GetCarter on Sunday 21st August 15:59

BJG1

5,966 posts

211 months

Sunday 21st August 2016
quotequote all
PH XKR said:
Where will it end? It will end where white men can no longer get a job, especially white middle class men because lets face it working class jobs don't attract the sort of hiring mentality that applies political correctness - can you turn a spanner? Good, you're hired.
I wouldn't worry. Being a white, middle class male is still comfortably the ethnicity/class/gender mix that yields the greatest advantage in society. We may suffer some unfairness but it's lesser than others.

PH XKR

1,761 posts

101 months

Sunday 21st August 2016
quotequote all
BJG1 said:
PH XKR said:
Where will it end? It will end where white men can no longer get a job, especially white middle class men because lets face it working class jobs don't attract the sort of hiring mentality that applies political correctness - can you turn a spanner? Good, you're hired.
I wouldn't worry. Being a white, middle class male is still comfortably the ethnicity/class/gender mix that yields the greatest advantage in society. We may suffer some unfairness but it's lesser than others.
For the time being...

BJG1

5,966 posts

211 months

Sunday 21st August 2016
quotequote all
PH XKR said:
For the time being...
I think as things come to a balance the current trend will stop and we will all get on as normal. Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with a lot of positive discrimination policies (especially ones mandated by the government) but I have a bit of faith they will stop when they're no longer deemed needed anyway.

Randy Winkman

16,016 posts

188 months

Sunday 21st August 2016
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BJG1 said:
PH XKR said:
Where will it end? It will end where white men can no longer get a job, especially white middle class men because lets face it working class jobs don't attract the sort of hiring mentality that applies political correctness - can you turn a spanner? Good, you're hired.
I wouldn't worry. Being a white, middle class male is still comfortably the ethnicity/class/gender mix that yields the greatest advantage in society. We may suffer some unfairness but it's lesser than others.
Despite what some people say - I agree with you.

voyds9

8,488 posts

282 months

Sunday 21st August 2016
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BJG1 said:
I wouldn't worry. Being a white, middle class male is still comfortably the ethnicity/class/gender mix that yields the greatest advantage in society. We may suffer some unfairness but it's lesser than others.
How much discrimination should we suffer until it becomes unfair.

finnie

Original Poster:

166 posts

185 months

Sunday 21st August 2016
quotequote all
craigjm said:
Your post sounds like the start of a beef that someone got a job over you / someone you know because they were black / disabled / a woman etc to try to balance an organisation. There are laws against positive discrimination (employing a woman say just because you don't have any in your company) but there are no laws against positive action (making it easier for someone to get a job in your company when they have certain characteristics - two tick guaranteed interview scheme for disabled people is one such scheme)
For once on pistonheads it wasn't. I just see that PC ness in the UK is going nuts. How can a person honestly be offended by the board at the front of a class be called a blackboard!

Snooker to be banned next as it is obviously a white supremacy game!

craigjm

17,908 posts

199 months

Sunday 21st August 2016
quotequote all
voyds9 said:
BJG1 said:
I wouldn't worry. Being a white, middle class male is still comfortably the ethnicity/class/gender mix that yields the greatest advantage in society. We may suffer some unfairness but it's lesser than others.
How much discrimination should we suffer until it becomes unfair.
Are you suffering more discrimination than others? Can you give the thread an example of when you were last discriminated against personally for being a white male?

BJG1

5,966 posts

211 months

Sunday 21st August 2016
quotequote all
voyds9 said:
How much discrimination should we suffer until it becomes unfair.
I think it's very rare for a white male to suffer meaningful discrimination but of course it's always unfair to suffer discrimination. It becomes a meaningful problem though, when it outweighs the advantages, we are nowhere near that point.

If you were a black female, all other things being equal, you'd be much worse off.

craigjm

17,908 posts

199 months

Sunday 21st August 2016
quotequote all
finnie said:
craigjm said:
Your post sounds like the start of a beef that someone got a job over you / someone you know because they were black / disabled / a woman etc to try to balance an organisation. There are laws against positive discrimination (employing a woman say just because you don't have any in your company) but there are no laws against positive action (making it easier for someone to get a job in your company when they have certain characteristics - two tick guaranteed interview scheme for disabled people is one such scheme)
For once on pistonheads it wasn't. I just see that PC ness in the UK is going nuts. How can a person honestly be offended by the board at the front of a class be called a blackboard!

Snooker to be banned next as it is obviously a white supremacy game!
Fair enough but since you started it I think it has kind of gone down that rabbit hole

craigjm

17,908 posts

199 months

Sunday 21st August 2016
quotequote all
BJG1 said:
I think it's very rare for a white male to suffer meaningful discrimination
Indeed, most discrimination isn't malicious and often comes about through lack of thought and different life experiences. We often recruit people like us because we get on with them in terms of rapport in the recruitment process. Thats why it is important to have as many people as possible involved in the recruitment decision and for candidates to be tested beyond the traditional interview.

As this is in NPE and not the employment section, discrimination goes far wider than competition for jobs. I spent a bit of time in a wheelchair after breaking both my legs and it suddenly makes you see the world very differently indeed.


Edited by craigjm on Sunday 21st August 16:41