EU army - Farage yet again seems to be right

[steveT350C]

FN2TypeR said:

rallycross said:

PRTVR said:

When did we ever get a vote on the formation of the EU ? We were allowed a vote on the common market, then slowly over many years it evolved into the monster it is today, my view is that is how we would end up with a European army, little steps under the radar, agreements, cooperation till it is in place.

Correct but no one seem seems to realise this.

Slowly slowly catchy monkey!

Indeed! This has been the modus operandi from day one.

[don4l]

rallycross said:

To see what's really going on at our borders fast forward to 14 mins in to this YouTube clip with a (crazed) lorry drivers view of the problem, scary stuff

https://youtu.be/y5R1T2BxtSc

Edited by rallycross on Saturday 17th September 11:55

I've been saying for some time that the more you supress discussion, the bigger the backlash will be. That video has only been up for 11 days and it already has 104,000 views. It has nearly 10 times more likes than dislikes.

Sadly, there will be many more videos like this.

[don4l]

steveT350C said:

FN2TypeR said:

rallycross said:

PRTVR said:

When did we ever get a vote on the formation of the EU ? We were allowed a vote on the common market, then slowly over many years it evolved into the monster it is today, my view is that is how we would end up with a European army, little steps under the radar, agreements, cooperation till it is in place.

Correct but no one seem seems to realise this.

Slowly slowly catchy monkey!

Indeed! This has been the modus operandi from day one.

"Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose but which will irreversibly lead to federation.”

Sadly, it took 40 years for most of us to see what is happening. Apparently, 48% of people either cannot see it, or they do not care.

[ralphrj]

BIANCO said:

That's as long as referendum results are respected and the politicians thats we elect represent the will of the people that elect them.
Looking at what's some are saying about the leave vote that may not be the case.

The legislation that prevented the UK military from being transferred to the EU without a referendum was specific in how Parliament could ratify it.

If the British public voted in favour of transferring the UK military to the EU then Parliament could overturn it.

If the British public voted against transferring the UK military to the EU then Parliament could not overturn it.

[steveT350C]

don4l said:

steveT350C said:

FN2TypeR said:

rallycross said:

PRTVR said:

When did we ever get a vote on the formation of the EU ? We were allowed a vote on the common market, then slowly over many years it evolved into the monster it is today, my view is that is how we would end up with a European army, little steps under the radar, agreements, cooperation till it is in place.

Correct but no one seem seems to realise this.

Slowly slowly catchy monkey!

Indeed! This has been the modus operandi from day one.

"Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose but which will irreversibly lead to federation.”

Sadly, it took 40 years for most of us to see what is happening. Apparently, 48% of people either cannot see it, or they do not care.

Much of the 48% were successfully brainwashed into believing that the UK needs the EU. The failed 'project fear' is unraveling daily; Carney now saying UK can benefit being out of EU.

I have no concerns about the politics of Brexit. The Brexit vote is the catalyst. The political construct that is the EU is collapsing and the bare facts are being seen.....

"ECB chief economist says 60 pct of its money printing ends up in Germany"

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSL8N1BR53D?pl...

[E24man]

ralphrj said:

The legislation that prevented the UK military from being transferred to the EU without a referendum was specific in how Parliament could ratify it.

If the British public voted in favour of transferring the UK military to the EU then Parliament could overturn it.

If the British public voted against transferring the UK military to the EU then Parliament could not overturn it.

The Dutch voted against the Ukraine being admitted EU concessionary visas yet the EU leadership completely ignored it; what makes you think the Eu would ignore any UK protests against an EU Army?

Following EU patterns, whatever the British people and Parliament voted on the forming of an EU Army, the EU would go ahead and do as they pleased anyway.

Individual State opinions carry little or no weight against EU legislation, despite there being an agreement that unanimous support is necessary for key decisions; if you can't see and find this through historical EU comments and decisions then you are fundamentally blind to the EU direction and its contempt of State democracy.

[Ridgemont]

E24man said:

ralphrj said:

The legislation that prevented the UK military from being transferred to the EU without a referendum was specific in how Parliament could ratify it.

If the British public voted in favour of transferring the UK military to the EU then Parliament could overturn it.

If the British public voted against transferring the UK military to the EU then Parliament could not overturn it.

The Dutch voted against the Ukraine being admitted EU concessionary visas yet the EU leadership completely ignored it; what makes you think the Eu would ignore any UK protests against an EU Army?

Following EU patterns, whatever the British people and Parliament voted on the forming of an EU Army, the EU would go ahead and do as they pleased anyway.

Individual State opinions carry little or no weight against EU legislation, despite there being an agreement that unanimous support is necessary for key decisions; if you can't see and find this through historical EU comments and decisions then you are fundamentally blind to the EU direction and its contempt of State democracy.

I think it's a little more complex than that though I share your general outlook.

The reality was that the UK ref was a question of whether the British people would require it's legislative authority to seek to exit from the EU despite that being viewed as being a foolish, if not downright absurd, thing to do. That the result was what it was has now caused the post vote chaos as parliament and indeed the wider world never priced in an exit vote.

What it wasn't was a clash between the UK and the EU. The issue was always how to force the governing establishment of the U.K. to pay attention to what turned out to be a majority of its citizens.

The same is replayed again and again. The Irish vote against Lisbon. It isn't the EU recasting the vote, with some assurances around abortion et al: it was the Irish gov.
The Greeks weren't forced by the EU to vote in. It was their government which essentially made that decision.
Time and time again the 'EU' isn't the problem that allows the creeping of the aqcuis communitaire, or the demolition of the veto. It's the national participants, wilfully ignoring the views of their populace. It comes down to a mindset that assumes that the paradigm is inescapable. That this is the way it has to be. That the protestations of larger segments of their own population can be ignored.

And when it comes back and bites them on the ass, they have no answer apart from to double down.

Edited by Ridgemont on Sunday 18th September 00:11

Edited by Ridgemont on Sunday 18th September 00:14

[b2hbm]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-defence-idUKKC...

A few more details on the "no EU Army". Joint resources, eg helicopters & drones, peacekeeping, border forces, etc and for use within member states but controlled from a military headquarters in Brussels.

Interesting point there, given Juncker's comments about the dangers of populism. With Tin-Foil hat firmly on head, I wonder if this is the start of an initiative to slap down civilian protests against the EU from some of the smaller member states on the pretext of "helping" the country ?

Still, it's never going to happen is it ? Cameron said so.

[irocfan]

Ridgemont said:

E24man said:

ralphrj said:

The legislation that prevented the UK military from being transferred to the EU without a referendum was specific in how Parliament could ratify it.

If the British public voted in favour of transferring the UK military to the EU then Parliament could overturn it.

If the British public voted against transferring the UK military to the EU then Parliament could not overturn it.

The Dutch voted against the Ukraine being admitted EU concessionary visas yet the EU leadership completely ignored it; what makes you think the Eu would ignore any UK protests against an EU Army?

Following EU patterns, whatever the British people and Parliament voted on the forming of an EU Army, the EU would go ahead and do as they pleased anyway.

Individual State opinions carry little or no weight against EU legislation, despite there being an agreement that unanimous support is necessary for key decisions; if you can't see and find this through historical EU comments and decisions then you are fundamentally blind to the EU direction and its contempt of State democracy.

I think it's a little more complex than that though I share your general outlook.

The reality was that the UK ref was a question of whether the British people would require it's legislative authority to seek to exit from the EU despite that being viewed as being a foolish, if not downright absurd, thing to do. That the result was what it was has now caused the post vote chaos as parliament and indeed the wider world never priced in an exit vote.

What it wasn't was a clash between the UK and the EU. The issue was always how to force the governing establishment of the U.K. to pay attention to what turned out to be a majority of its citizens.

The same is replayed again and again. The Irish vote against Lisbon. It isn't the EU recasting the vote, with some assurances around abortion et al: it was the Irish gov.
The Greeks weren't forced by the EU to vote in. It was their government which essentially made that decision.
Time and time again the 'EU' isn't the problem that allows the creeping of the aqcuis communitaire, or the demolition of the veto. It's the national participants, wilfully ignoring the views of their populace. It comes down to a mindset that assumes that the paradigm is inescapable. That this is the way it has to be. That the protestations of larger segments of their own population can be ignored.

And when it comes back and bites them on the ass, they have no answer apart from to double down.

Edited by Ridgemont on Sunday 18th September 00:11

Edited by Ridgemont on Sunday 18th September 00:14

oh you are correct that the EU didn't insist upon another vote - do you honestly believe though that 'pressure' wasn't brought to bear upon the governments so that the brainless, populist masses would 'see the light' and have their Damascene conversion?