5 dead in Camber Sands today
Discussion
JagLover said:
Agreed
We have the same old tired complaints about PHs. But the mocking of "promising footballer" was due to the fact the media used it seemingly for every wannabe gangster who had met an untimely demise. Doubtless due to the lack of anything else positive to say about the deceased.
Always reminds me of Bonfire of the Vanities where the kid the protagonist has killed is described by the media in glowing terms as a 'straight A student'. Turns out he is only being called that because he attended school a bit more regularly than his peers, so in comparison to them is a diligent student, but compared to most people would be seen as a poor achiever. We have the same old tired complaints about PHs. But the mocking of "promising footballer" was due to the fact the media used it seemingly for every wannabe gangster who had met an untimely demise. Doubtless due to the lack of anything else positive to say about the deceased.
JagLover said:
J4CKO said:
I get you but though sometimes she offends those that need offending, these comments were just mean and unnecessary.
AgreedWe have the same old tired complaints about PHs. But the mocking of "promising footballer" was due to the fact the media used it seemingly for every wannabe gangster who had met an untimely demise. Doubtless due to the lack of anything else positive to say about the deceased.
superkartracer said:
Safer way to experience the power of the tide/rips/add here , take a small boat out and see how much extra power is needed get back ashore ( engine powered with all the safely gear ) .
The good wife was an Olympic level swimmer and she never wades out into UK seas for a swim. She can still reel off 1000's m's in a pool until bored s
tless! ( just asked her the distance and she said - oh about half the channel ha ha ) .
This speaks volumes.I wish more people knew things like thisThe good wife was an Olympic level swimmer and she never wades out into UK seas for a swim. She can still reel off 1000's m's in a pool until bored s
tless! ( just asked her the distance and she said - oh about half the channel ha ha ) .Edited by superkartracer on Saturday 27th August 19:53
robm3 said:
If it's a beach not an estuary mouth then more often than not you're caught in what's called a 'Rip', basically speaking this a current that flows from the beach back to sea. Most beaches have one or two.
They're tricky to spot to the untrained eye but basically sweep you out to sea and very hard to swim against.
If you find yourself bobbing out to sea and can't make any headway back then swim diagonally or parallel along the beach till you're out of the current, THEN try to head back in. Naturally this goes against Human Nature but it'll make your survival chances a lot higher!
Well that is the first time I've heard that. Seems great safety knowledge that should be taught at schools ( do they still teach swimming.) They're tricky to spot to the untrained eye but basically sweep you out to sea and very hard to swim against.
If you find yourself bobbing out to sea and can't make any headway back then swim diagonally or parallel along the beach till you're out of the current, THEN try to head back in. Naturally this goes against Human Nature but it'll make your survival chances a lot higher!
I still swim in the sea, go quite far out but on this beach there seems to be next to no tide
Rip tides are not tides and are not caused by tides.
They are caused by waves.
The water flows up the beach in a looong wave, but sometimes flows back out to sea in a narrow current, often looking for the easiest way back through channels between sand bars. That is your rip tide.
The one that almost got me was waves arriving in a long line over a shallow coral reef, but departing back through a deep channel in the reef. The deep channel was just water flowing back out to sea at a rate of knots. I couldn't do the usual 'go with the flow then swim to the side', because once beyond the reef there was no other way back to shore, and it was a small island... Got cut to pieces..
The other danger is undertow, which is the waves going up a steeply shelving beach, then the water rushing back down into the sea. Almost came a cropper in Mexico, you think you have made it to the beach, then find you cannot get out of the water, after two or three attempts you have burned all your energy...fortunately someone pulled me out.
They are caused by waves.
The water flows up the beach in a looong wave, but sometimes flows back out to sea in a narrow current, often looking for the easiest way back through channels between sand bars. That is your rip tide.
The one that almost got me was waves arriving in a long line over a shallow coral reef, but departing back through a deep channel in the reef. The deep channel was just water flowing back out to sea at a rate of knots. I couldn't do the usual 'go with the flow then swim to the side', because once beyond the reef there was no other way back to shore, and it was a small island... Got cut to pieces..
The other danger is undertow, which is the waves going up a steeply shelving beach, then the water rushing back down into the sea. Almost came a cropper in Mexico, you think you have made it to the beach, then find you cannot get out of the water, after two or three attempts you have burned all your energy...fortunately someone pulled me out.
Are the council trying to pass the buck here or do they have a point?
The council that did not provide lifeguards at Camber Sands beach has blamed drownings over the summer on the limitations of “non-swimming persons of a certain culture”, according to an internal document seen by the Guardian. Seven men – one of Asian heritage, one Brazilian teenager, and five of Tamil origin – died at the popular seaside resort of Camber Sands in East Sussex in July and August. All of the men were described by family members as capable swimmers. There is no lifeguard in attendance on the beach, where up to 25,000 people visit on hot days. But an incident log filed by a Rother district council official after the first two men drowned warned that the fact that the beach attracts “predominantly non-British visitors has been an increasing issue”.
The council that did not provide lifeguards at Camber Sands beach has blamed drownings over the summer on the limitations of “non-swimming persons of a certain culture”, according to an internal document seen by the Guardian. Seven men – one of Asian heritage, one Brazilian teenager, and five of Tamil origin – died at the popular seaside resort of Camber Sands in East Sussex in July and August. All of the men were described by family members as capable swimmers. There is no lifeguard in attendance on the beach, where up to 25,000 people visit on hot days. But an incident log filed by a Rother district council official after the first two men drowned warned that the fact that the beach attracts “predominantly non-British visitors has been an increasing issue”.
article said:
A senior lifeguard manager from the Royal National Lifeboat Institution was on the beach carrying out a safety assessment on 24 August, the day the five men of Tamil origin drowned, the Guardian understands. In 2013 the RNLI carried out a risk assessment recommending that a lifeguard service be introduced at the beach, a recommendation that was not taken up by Rother district council.
Relatives of the five men who drowned on 24 August expressed shock and anger about the comments referring to nationality and culture and about the failure to provide a lifeguard service during the busy summer months.
Relatives of the five men who drowned on 24 August expressed shock and anger about the comments referring to nationality and culture and about the failure to provide a lifeguard service during the busy summer months.
At face value I'm a little surprised if there wasn't a single lifeguard at what appears to be a known popular destination vs. some random piece of beach.
Whether they could have done anything if faced with half a dozen non-swimmers getting into difficulty is a different question.
Horrible really, you don't expect to go out to the beach and not come home.
Whether they could have done anything if faced with half a dozen non-swimmers getting into difficulty is a different question.
Horrible really, you don't expect to go out to the beach and not come home.
Murph7355 said:
...and/or don't understand the dangers, don't go in the water.
Isn't this the point though? Many people don't know they actually ARE in danger?Ditto people falling down the hard snow on Snowdon in the Spring, tailgating on the motorway, etc etc. People are not good at judging risk without 1st hand experience of how it can go wrong.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: At face value I'm a little surprised if there wasn't a single lifeguard at what appears to be a known popular destination vs. some random piece of beach.
Whether they could have done anything if faced with half a dozen non-swimmers getting into difficulty is a different question..
Had there been a local lifeguard, he would have been aware of the dangers and moved the men away from the danger area long before the incoming tide encircled them. Whether they could have done anything if faced with half a dozen non-swimmers getting into difficulty is a different question..
Camber Sands is a huge beach, so putting a couple of lifeguards in place is unlikely to do anything other than foster a false sense of security.
The tidal range is extraordinarily long. As the incline is very flat, with dips for outflows, rapidly incoming and outgoing water can be treacherous but it is the responsibility of the visitors really, as long as signs are clear at the access points.
loafer123 said:
Camber Sands is a huge beach, so putting a couple of lifeguards in place is unlikely to do anything other than foster a false sense of security.
The tidal range is extraordinarily long. As the incline is very flat, with dips for outflows, rapidly incoming and outgoing water can be treacherous but it is the responsibility of the visitors really, as long as signs are clear at the access points.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=camber+sands+beach&client=safari&hl=en-gb&prmd=minv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiQy5yN0IzRAhUGN1AKHUMMAywQ_AUICCgC&biw=1024&bih=672#imgrc=NOgPIQ7oURhlOM%3AThe tidal range is extraordinarily long. As the incline is very flat, with dips for outflows, rapidly incoming and outgoing water can be treacherous but it is the responsibility of the visitors really, as long as signs are clear at the access points.
That photo is of part of the beach, the tide goes out further than in this photo.
You would need a lot of life guards to cover Camber, really an awful lot!
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