More fun and games in Calais
Discussion
don'tbesilly said:
Sarkozy seems to think the UK should sort the French mess out.
It's amazing that the French have the front to think that there monumental balls up is the fault of the UK!
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/704596/Nichola...
I can see his point. The fact that they believe they will get what they want in Britain is leading them to Calais. It's amazing that the French have the front to think that there monumental balls up is the fault of the UK!
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/704596/Nichola...
The trouble is you can't really remove the incentives to come to a prosperous and stable country without removing the prosperity and stability unless you have a very uncompromising approach to dealing with illegals. We currently don't so the incentive remains.
It needs to be very very clear that jumping the border at Calais will never work. A fair and sensible asylum policy run from British consulates and embassies in conjunction with a zero tolerance approach to illegal migration would work.
Deport them immediately to their home country and if they refuse to be identified then imprison them indefinitely. It is that simple.
PRTVR said:
PositronicRay said:
Mr_B said:
France and the EU doesn't have the guts to deal with the issue and simply process the people and deport if needed.
Where do you deport them to? ID's lost/destroyed etc. If the UK tightened up on black market labour it'd make it a lot less attractive.
But it will never happen, weak government and our wonderful legal system will see to that.
AJS- said:
don'tbesilly said:
Sarkozy seems to think the UK should sort the French mess out.
It's amazing that the French have the front to think that there monumental balls up is the fault of the UK!
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/704596/Nichola...
I can see his point. The fact that they believe they will get what they want in Britain is leading them to Calais. It's amazing that the French have the front to think that there monumental balls up is the fault of the UK!
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/704596/Nichola...
The trouble is you can't really remove the incentives to come to a prosperous and stable country without removing the prosperity and stability unless you have a very uncompromising approach to dealing with illegals. We currently don't so the incentive remains.
It needs to be very very clear that jumping the border at Calais will never work. A fair and sensible asylum policy run from British consulates and embassies in conjunction with a zero tolerance approach to illegal migration would work.
Deport them immediately to their home country and if they refuse to be identified then imprison them indefinitely. It is that simple.
Sarkozy seems to forget that asylum seekers are supposed to seek asylum in the first safe country they arrive in.
I haven't seen reports of migrants landing in any French coastal towns, not of any significance anyway, so I'd guess most of the migrants have travelled up through Italy into France and onto Calais.
It's clear that neither Italy or France have carried out the required checks on those currently residing in Calais, but apparently because the migrants preferred choice of residence is the UK it becomes the UK's responsibility to do what the Italians and French have failed to do.
The French have exasperated the situation by allowing the jungle to exist and grow to uncontrollable levels of occupancy and now it's got to where it is, the French are threatening to tear up the Le Touquet agreement.
The notion that the UK's perceived generous welfare system and black market employment opportunities are a reason for the camp and the migrants reasons for attempting to get to the UK, are nothing more than excuses by the French for their own failings.
It's an EU failing,perpetuated by the French, and one the UK should not be blamed for, or have to sort out.
don'tbesilly said:
What point can you see?
Sarkozy seems to forget that asylum seekers are supposed to seek asylum in the first safe country they arrive in.
I haven't seen reports of migrants landing in any French coastal towns, not of any significance anyway, so I'd guess most of the migrants have travelled up through Italy into France and onto Calais.
It's clear that neither Italy or France have carried out the required checks on those currently residing in Calais, but apparently because the migrants preferred choice of residence is the UK it becomes the UK's responsibility to do what the Italians and French have failed to do.
The French have exasperated the situation by allowing the jungle to exist and grow to uncontrollable levels of occupancy and now it's got to where it is, the French are threatening to tear up the Le Touquet agreement.
The notion that the UK's perceived generous welfare system and black market employment opportunities are a reason for the camp and the migrants reasons for attempting to get to the UK, are nothing more than excuses by the French for their own failings.
It's an EU failing,perpetuated by the French, and one the UK should not be blamed for, or have to sort out.
The point is you really do not understand:Sarkozy seems to forget that asylum seekers are supposed to seek asylum in the first safe country they arrive in.
I haven't seen reports of migrants landing in any French coastal towns, not of any significance anyway, so I'd guess most of the migrants have travelled up through Italy into France and onto Calais.
It's clear that neither Italy or France have carried out the required checks on those currently residing in Calais, but apparently because the migrants preferred choice of residence is the UK it becomes the UK's responsibility to do what the Italians and French have failed to do.
The French have exasperated the situation by allowing the jungle to exist and grow to uncontrollable levels of occupancy and now it's got to where it is, the French are threatening to tear up the Le Touquet agreement.
The notion that the UK's perceived generous welfare system and black market employment opportunities are a reason for the camp and the migrants reasons for attempting to get to the UK, are nothing more than excuses by the French for their own failings.
It's an EU failing,perpetuated by the French, and one the UK should not be blamed for, or have to sort out.
1 There is no requirement for irregular immigrants to seek refuge status in the first safe country.
2 What checks are the Italians and French supposed to have carried out? These people did not pass through any border controls.
3 What are the French supposed to do?
4 Why should the French not tear up the Le Tougeut Agreement they gain nothing from it. Any way if we leave the single the agreement is redundant.
5 This is nothing to do with the EU.
Mrr T said:
2 What checks are the Italians and French supposed to have carried out? These people did not pass through any border controls.
And there you have it in one, the EU is a giant free for all for whoever wants to just wander in, be they friend of foe. Its nuts with the current state of the world and its seemingly endless supply of nutters wanting to blow things up and kill people. Europeans did not ask for any of this, its all been created by idiot politicians, the only ones with any common sense appear to be Hungary who dont appear bothered with an abundance of hand wringers and have built a rather large wall.Mrr T said:
don'tbesilly said:
What point can you see?
Sarkozy seems to forget that asylum seekers are supposed to seek asylum in the first safe country they arrive in.
I haven't seen reports of migrants landing in any French coastal towns, not of any significance anyway, so I'd guess most of the migrants have travelled up through Italy into France and onto Calais.
It's clear that neither Italy or France have carried out the required checks on those currently residing in Calais, but apparently because the migrants preferred choice of residence is the UK it becomes the UK's responsibility to do what the Italians and French have failed to do.
The French have exasperated the situation by allowing the jungle to exist and grow to uncontrollable levels of occupancy and now it's got to where it is, the French are threatening to tear up the Le Touquet agreement.
The notion that the UK's perceived generous welfare system and black market employment opportunities are a reason for the camp and the migrants reasons for attempting to get to the UK, are nothing more than excuses by the French for their own failings.
It's an EU failing,perpetuated by the French, and one the UK should not be blamed for, or have to sort out.
The point is you really do not understand:Sarkozy seems to forget that asylum seekers are supposed to seek asylum in the first safe country they arrive in.
I haven't seen reports of migrants landing in any French coastal towns, not of any significance anyway, so I'd guess most of the migrants have travelled up through Italy into France and onto Calais.
It's clear that neither Italy or France have carried out the required checks on those currently residing in Calais, but apparently because the migrants preferred choice of residence is the UK it becomes the UK's responsibility to do what the Italians and French have failed to do.
The French have exasperated the situation by allowing the jungle to exist and grow to uncontrollable levels of occupancy and now it's got to where it is, the French are threatening to tear up the Le Touquet agreement.
The notion that the UK's perceived generous welfare system and black market employment opportunities are a reason for the camp and the migrants reasons for attempting to get to the UK, are nothing more than excuses by the French for their own failings.
It's an EU failing,perpetuated by the French, and one the UK should not be blamed for, or have to sort out.
1 There is no requirement for irregular immigrants to seek refuge status in the first safe country.
2 What checks are the Italians and French supposed to have carried out? These people did not pass through any border controls.
3 What are the French supposed to do?
4 Why should the French not tear up the Le Tougeut Agreement they gain nothing from it. Any way if we leave the single the agreement is redundant.
5 This is nothing to do with the EU.
I'm quite sure that when asked the majority of those camped in Calais would claim to be from 'unsafe' countries and were asylum seekers and not economic migrants.
2 What checks are the Italians and French supposed to have carried out? These people did not pass through any border controls.
No a failing of the Schengen agreement which is a policy of the European Union.
3 What are the French supposed to do?
As I pointed out in response to your number 1 they should be returned to either Italy where their application for asylum should have been registered, or returned to the country where they originated.
4 Why should the French not tear up the Le Tougeut Agreement they gain nothing from it. Any way if we leave the single the agreement is redundant.
If the French are gaining nothing from it, why on earth did they agree to it in the first place?
I don't understand your other point, but Le Touguet and leaving the EU are not in any way linked, leaving the EU does not impact on Le Touquet in any way.
5 This is nothing to do with the EU.
I refer you to point 2.
PositronicRay said:
PRTVR said:
PositronicRay said:
Mr_B said:
France and the EU doesn't have the guts to deal with the issue and simply process the people and deport if needed.
Where do you deport them to? ID's lost/destroyed etc. If the UK tightened up on black market labour it'd make it a lot less attractive.
But it will never happen, weak government and our wonderful legal system will see to that.
By the way saying that I can see his point doesn't mean I agree entirely or think that it is the whole problem. France and Europe as a whole has a huge problem which I believe will change the continent for the worse irreparably. And it's created by a simple refusal of European governments to face the problem or to enforce the laws.
Mrr T said:
5. This is nothing to do with the EU.
This is 100% to do with the EU. It is/was the EU agreement of its commissioners and EU member state leaders who agreed to Shengen. This is from where and how Europe finds herself in this s
ttily difficult situation. If any of you do not understand the EU structure and who controls EU legislation you need to read...http://ec.europa.eu/about/index_en.htm
and the disastrous Shengen Agreement brought into European Law
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri...
http://europe.newsweek.com/five-things-you-need-kn...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ref...
The sooner individual border controls are re-instated the better.
PRTVR said:
PositronicRay said:
PRTVR said:
PositronicRay said:
Mr_B said:
France and the EU doesn't have the guts to deal with the issue and simply process the people and deport if needed.
Where do you deport them to? ID's lost/destroyed etc. If the UK tightened up on black market labour it'd make it a lot less attractive.
But it will never happen, weak government and our wonderful legal system will see to that.
PositronicRay said:
So you can arrest them, prosecute them and jail them. But you can't just deport people to a random country.
We could by agreement with that country. If the EU was any potential use for anything this was it's big chance. They could have set up detention centres near the major points of entry and processed the genuine asylum seekers from there, placing them across member states as suitable and ensuring the ineligible ones never enter the EU. They could have coordinated a strengthening of borders and a concerted, united message that hopping the borders would never be rewarded. They could supported poorer members in their efforts to uphold their own laws and their obligations to other members to control who enters.
Instead we saw destructive chaos led by Merkel throwing open the doors then changing her mind, dumping hundreds of thousands of people on countries ill-equipped to deal with them and importing an unknown number of violent criminals and potential terrorists into the Schengen area. We saw the condescending scorn directed at Hungary for having the temerity to attempt to defend her borders. We have seen more bodies washing up in the Mediterranean and criminal gangs continuing to rip off the desperate and the ignorant with the utterly false promise of a land of plenty welcoming them with open arms.
As a wholly predictable result of this debacle we have seen civil unrest and the rise of the far right across the continent and the possible break up of the worthless folly which the EU has proven itself to be. Sadly too late.
PRTVR said:
And entering a country illegally without a passport is against the law,do we go on rewarding people for breaking the law?
Yes, the next time any of us are waiting at immigration controls, we can ponder the utter, time wasting futility of applying the rules only to those who come through the correct channels and doing little to nothing about chronic abuses of the system.PositronicRay said:
PRTVR said:
PositronicRay said:
PRTVR said:
PositronicRay said:
Mr_B said:
France and the EU doesn't have the guts to deal with the issue and simply process the people and deport if needed.
Where do you deport them to? ID's lost/destroyed etc. If the UK tightened up on black market labour it'd make it a lot less attractive.
But it will never happen, weak government and our wonderful legal system will see to that.
Plan B get a prison built and staffed somewhere in Africa , get the country to sell us the land so it's British soil, ship them out, double win, money flows into a poor Africa nation we get a problem solved
PRTVR said:
So many negative thoughts, this is not going to solve the problem,
Plan B get a prison built and staffed somewhere in Africa , get the country to sell us the land so it's British soil, ship them out, double win, money flows into a poor Africa nation we get a problem solved
If it is British soil then the the prison inmates can claim asylum there.Plan B get a prison built and staffed somewhere in Africa , get the country to sell us the land so it's British soil, ship them out, double win, money flows into a poor Africa nation we get a problem solved
cymtriks said:
Digga said:
We want immigrants
Millions of people don't, who is this "we" that you refer to?Digga said:
we need immigrants,
What is this "need" that you refer to?Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff