More fun and games in Calais
Discussion
PRTVR said:
greygoose said:
Most of the cost of the fences, police etc for the jungle is met by the UK government. i think you are naive if you think there are no genuine asylum seekers there, they just want to go to UK as better job prospects than much of Europe and chance of a better life compared to Italy/France etc.
But surely if they are just coming to the UK for better job prospects that makes them economic migrants, they are safe in France,Greece, Italy from whatever they were fleeing from.greygoose said:
PRTVR said:
greygoose said:
Most of the cost of the fences, police etc for the jungle is met by the UK government. i think you are naive if you think there are no genuine asylum seekers there, they just want to go to UK as better job prospects than much of Europe and chance of a better life compared to Italy/France etc.
But surely if they are just coming to the UK for better job prospects that makes them economic migrants, they are safe in France,Greece, Italy from whatever they were fleeing from.PRTVR said:
Because Europe was on its knees and Britain was struggling to feed itself,this is not a world war, to link the two situations is wrong, once safe away from their problem do you think they have a right to just go wherever they want regardless of laws ?
I don't think they have the right to go anywhere, at the same time the numbers of Syrians moving to neighbouring countries are too high for those countries to cope with and those fleeing are bound to seek better opportunities to earn money etc than waiting for years for the conflict to end.greygoose said:
PRTVR said:
Because Europe was on its knees and Britain was struggling to feed itself,this is not a world war, to link the two situations is wrong, once safe away from their problem do you think they have a right to just go wherever they want regardless of laws ?
I don't think they have the right to go anywhere, at the same time the numbers of Syrians moving to neighbouring countries are too high for those countries to cope with and those fleeing are bound to seek better opportunities to earn money etc than waiting for years for the conflict to end."seeking better opportunities to earn money" is that not an economic migrants ?
Rovinghawk said:
greygoose said:
to seek better opportunities to earn money etc.
Very different to seeking safety from a war.greygoose said:
Most of the cost of the fences, police etc for the jungle is met by the UK government. i think you are naive if you think there are no genuine asylum seekers there, they just want to go to UK as better job prospects than much of Europe and chance of a better life compared to Italy/France etc.
Sure tha tis a case of hard frommmage mate. The rules is the rules. And by not abiding by them, they become criminals. Which means we should as a matter of course not accept them even if they can claim asylum here...why do we want a load of "follow what rules I like" people here? Plus of course some would say if the WERE GENUINE, ie were fleeing persecution / war / famine etc, they'd be f
king glad of a safe dry roof over their heads and any semblance of a normal life, not chasing the idealogical dream of UK on benefits! PRTVR said:
greygoose said:
Most of the cost of the fences, police etc for the jungle is met by the UK government. i think you are naive if you think there are no genuine asylum seekers there, they just want to go to UK as better job prospects than much of Europe and chance of a better life compared to Italy/France etc.
But surely if they are just coming to the UK for better job prospects that makes them economic migrants, they are safe in France,Greece, Italy from whatever they were fleeing from.
greygoose said:
The two aren't totally separate, many of those who fled WW2 went to America etc.
Not quite.https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=...
Besides, international refugee law is based on the principle of "First Safe Country" these days; as soon as you get to a safe country you are supposed to present yourself to the authorities and claim asylum. For Syrian refugees that would normally be Turkey. That first safe country will have arrangements with other countries to share the burden (as the UK does).
If they don't claim asylum in the first country and continue to travel until they get somewhere "nice" they are economic migrants.
Well, every day is a schoolday...
On Radio 4 this am they are reporting that up to 100 'vulnerable children' will be leaving the Jungle and coming to the UK, amongst whom they listed Kuwaiti Bedoon - a new sub-classification I'd never heard of.
Google tells me they are a stateless people native to the Gulf who used to wander about, but are not to be mistaken for Bedouin (who are stateless nomads found in and around Gulf states).
On Radio 4 this am they are reporting that up to 100 'vulnerable children' will be leaving the Jungle and coming to the UK, amongst whom they listed Kuwaiti Bedoon - a new sub-classification I'd never heard of.
Google tells me they are a stateless people native to the Gulf who used to wander about, but are not to be mistaken for Bedouin (who are stateless nomads found in and around Gulf states).
greygoose said:
People need to do something after getting away from a warzone, sitting in a camp in the desert for years on end waiting for the war to end whilst dependant on UN aid isn't really a life anyone would choose for a long term future.
How about claiming asylum in the country they're in, settling, integrating, getting a job, obeying laws, etc.........?davepoth said:
Not quite.
https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=...
Besides, international refugee law is based on the principle of "First Safe Country" these days; as soon as you get to a safe country you are supposed to present yourself to the authorities and claim asylum. For Syrian refugees that would normally be Turkey. That first safe country will have arrangements with other countries to share the burden (as the UK does).
If they don't claim asylum in the first country and continue to travel until they get somewhere "nice" they are economic migrants.
There is no "first safe" country rule in the treaties covering refugees. There is a general principal of international law on "first safe" country. However, you should understand the principal is "first safe" country not "last safe" country. So theoretically a irregular immigrant claiming refugee status in the UK after smuggling themselves via the ferry ports or tunnel can be deport to the "first safe" country. However, this is far from easy. France was clearly the last safe country, but may not have been the "first safe" country because the immigrant may have travelled through several countries to get to France. For that reason deporting irregular immigrants to a "first safe" country only works if the immigrant and the country both agree.https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=...
Besides, international refugee law is based on the principle of "First Safe Country" these days; as soon as you get to a safe country you are supposed to present yourself to the authorities and claim asylum. For Syrian refugees that would normally be Turkey. That first safe country will have arrangements with other countries to share the burden (as the UK does).
If they don't claim asylum in the first country and continue to travel until they get somewhere "nice" they are economic migrants.
Also the convention on refugees are clear, a refugee is always a refugee never an economic migrant.
steveT350C said:
Here come the children.... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3843900/Fi...
Not sure how many of them are children, and I don't trust the government/border force to have robust policies in place to weed out the liars. The Don of Croy said:
Well, every day is a schoolday...
On Radio 4 this am they are reporting that up to 100 'vulnerable children' will be leaving the Jungle and coming to the UK, amongst whom they listed Kuwaiti Bedoon - a new sub-classification I'd never heard of.
Google tells me they are a stateless people native to the Gulf who used to wander about, but are not to be mistaken for Bedouin (who are stateless nomads found in and around Gulf states).
I heard that too & wondered what refugee crisis there is in Kuwait. Or perhaps, they are just true to form in their "wanderings" & surprised themselves at ending up in Calais.On Radio 4 this am they are reporting that up to 100 'vulnerable children' will be leaving the Jungle and coming to the UK, amongst whom they listed Kuwaiti Bedoon - a new sub-classification I'd never heard of.
Google tells me they are a stateless people native to the Gulf who used to wander about, but are not to be mistaken for Bedouin (who are stateless nomads found in and around Gulf states).
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