More fun and games in Calais
Discussion
It doesn't come cheap for the UK taxpayer to clean up the spectacular failings of the French administration:
36 million to clear the jungle
80 million to pay for security guards in French Ports
2 million for the wall to protect the entrance to the tunnel
with no guarantees on Le Touquet
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3868494/Br...
Crazy doesn't come close!
36 million to clear the jungle
80 million to pay for security guards in French Ports
2 million for the wall to protect the entrance to the tunnel
with no guarantees on Le Touquet
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3868494/Br...
Crazy doesn't come close!
The funniest part of todays coverage was the Calais MP bleating on camera that we hadnt met our commitments to accept unaccompanied children, f
king cheek, whos the wker that allowed 8000 or so illegals to build a town on his doorstep and allowed the area to become virtually lawless, Pot kettle and black etc.
king cheek, whos the wker that allowed 8000 or so illegals to build a town on his doorstep and allowed the area to become virtually lawless, Pot kettle and black etc.Cupramax said:
The funniest part of todays coverage was the Calais MP bleating on camera that we hadnt met our commitments to accept unaccompanied children, fking cheek, whos the wker that allowed 8000 or so illegals to build a town on his doorstep and allowed the area to become virtually lawless, Pot kettle and black etc.
Stunning isn't it.king cheek, whos the wker that allowed 8000 or so illegals to build a town on his doorstep and allowed the area to become virtually lawless, Pot kettle and black etc.The logic seems to be: They're all trying to get to Britain, therefore it's all Britain's fault, and Britain should pay.
They all took the piss out of Trump when he said 'Mexico is gonna pay for the wall...'. Well it's actually happened in Calais, except we're the Mexicans.
230TE said:
Guybrush said:
At least Sky news didn't seem to try desperately to find the one or two women and / or children amongst all the men. It was quite obvious that most of them were from African regions, simply seeing a chance to 'hitch a ride' in on the general wave of people movement. But, the question remains, why once in the west / Europe do they seem to bypass Italy, Germany, Austria, France and others to camp out in squalor to get to the UK?
Two things I can think of:1. Language. Most of them seem to speak a bit of English, it being the world's most popular second language. Far fewer have any German or Italian. Ideally they'd head for the USA but you can't cross the Atlantic in a rubber boat with a Chinese outboard motor, so we're the next best thing.
2. Improbable though this may seem to self-loathing white metro-libs, Britain has a worldwide reputation for decency, fair play and the rule of law. People from corrupt, unstable, incompetently run countries find that prospect rather attractive. We should be very proud that so very many people want to come here. That doesn't mean that we have to let them all in though. Applying the same rules to everyone is fair and just, and in that context this latest development - turning a blind eye to migrants who are obviously lying about their age and probably about their UK family connections as well, and then trying to cover it up - is an absolute disgrace. In most countries you'd have to bribe officials to get away with this kind of scam: would-be bogus asylum seekers must now be wondering whose palms they need to grease. Not our finest hour, but no doubt all concerned feel terribly virtuous about the "children" they have "saved".
The reason that Britain is the popular destination has nothing to do with "decency, fair-play etc"...(do you really think other countries still view the UK as such? Over the week-end, I can assure you that the press on this side of the channel had a rather different vocabulary to describe UK - selfish and arrogant being the most popular )
It is because the UK, unlike any other EU country, has the weakest possible controls on identity. The steadfast refusal to allow the introduction of ID cards makes it extremely easy to disappear, and then get work in the UK's booming grey economy.
Want to stop immigrants coming to the UK? Get some better laws in place!
Oh, and while you're feeling so virtuous about how many UK has saved, you might want to remember that, proportionally, the UK has taken fewer refugees/ immigrants than most EU countries... (source: Eurostat)
Edited by monamimate on Tuesday 25th October 13:16
monamimate said:
Want to stop immigrants coming to the UK? Get some better laws in place!
Don't come on here and expect people to blindly accept your peddling quasi-totalitarian socialist bureaucracy as a solution.Did you not consider that the fact 'we' in the the UK want to live in the sort of place where ID cards are not necessary as, perhaps, a good reason for us to adopt different compromises in our immigration and border control to the rest of Europe?
Digga said:
monamimate said:
Want to stop immigrants coming to the UK? Get some better laws in place!
Don't come on here and expect people to blindly accept your peddling quasi-totalitarian socialist bureaucracy as a solution.Did you not consider that the fact 'we' in the the UK want to live in the sort of place where ID cards are not necessary as, perhaps, a good reason for us to adopt different compromises in our immigration and border control to the rest of Europe?
Bureaucracy?? That's funny, coming from the country that requires one to send copies of a recent electricity bill to confirm one's identity. How medieval is that? And you talk about our bureaucracy? An ID card is valid for 10 years, and requires only a 10-minute visit to the town hall! to renew! A tiny price to pay to ensure that one's identity can be proven and checked at all times.
If you would rather live in a country where it is difficult even for the police to check a person's identity, don't come crying when illegal immigrants want to come and enjoy that anonymity also.
Can't have your cake and eat it.
Digga said:
Did you not consider that the fact 'we' in the the UK want to live in the sort of place where ID cards are not necessary as, perhaps, a good reason for us to adopt different compromises in our immigration and border control to the rest of Europe?
Indeed."Your papers please" is a statement most of us will have never heard, and do not wish to.
Plenty of people in the UK are more than happy to have ID cards. I think our politicians came up with the "lack of will of the people" to drop it as an excuse to cover for poor implementation and cost controls of the proposed system, again to cover the ineptitude of our Govt and public service.
Having said that, ID cards are not the be all and end all, but IMHO a step in the right direction.
Having said that, ID cards are not the be all and end all, but IMHO a step in the right direction.
Goaty Bill 2 said:
Digga said:
Did you not consider that the fact 'we' in the the UK want to live in the sort of place where ID cards are not necessary as, perhaps, a good reason for us to adopt different compromises in our immigration and border control to the rest of Europe?
Indeed."Your papers please" is a statement most of us will have never heard, and do not wish to.
If you don't want the benefits of an ID card (e.g. being able to identify the moron who just rear-ended you, just as one example among 1000s), fair enough.
But don't be surprised that illegal immigrants also find that an attractive proposition.
Goaty Bill 2 said:
Indeed.
"Your papers please" is a statement most of us will have never heard, and do not wish to.
Could you explain to me what is easier then? Providing an ID card to the police/insurers/bank/employer etc that immediately confirms who you are, or the UK way, in which you are also asked for your papers, but, for example, given 5 days to bring them to a local police station, giving one ample opportunity to lie about one's identity or disappear in the meantime, leading to expensive and wasteful searches by the police subsequently. Talk about bureaucracy. If you want to open bank account, you need to prove who you are, and what do you get asked to provide? A copy of a utility bill!! How laughable! How archaic!"Your papers please" is a statement most of us will have never heard, and do not wish to.
Please do tell me what the benefit of not having an ID card is (or indeed, what are the negatives of having one)? I'd love to know.
monamimate said:
Goaty Bill 2 said:
Indeed.
"Your papers please" is a statement most of us will have never heard, and do not wish to.
Could you explain to me what is easier then? Providing an ID card to the police/insurers/bank/employer etc that immediately confirms who you are, or the UK way, in which you are also asked for your papers, but, for example, given 5 days to bring them to a local police station, giving one ample opportunity to lie about one's identity or disappear in the meantime, leading to expensive and wasteful searches by the police subsequently. Talk about bureaucracy. If you want to open bank account, you need to prove who you are, and what do you get asked to provide? A copy of a utility bill!! How laughable! How archaic!"Your papers please" is a statement most of us will have never heard, and do not wish to.
Please do tell me what the benefit of not having an ID card is (or indeed, what are the negatives of having one)? I'd love to know.
Your analogy could be extended to chipping, DNA testing, finger printing and ID carding every new arrival and current resident - yes of course that would bring benefits but is the cost (not just monetary) of this real value?
Some countries have chosen one extreme (no national databases for anything), others have national ID card schemes, here in the UK we are a little closer to freedom side than the police state side (although we have CCTV everywhere unlike any other country in the world).
monamimate said:
Goaty Bill 2 said:
Digga said:
Did you not consider that the fact 'we' in the the UK want to live in the sort of place where ID cards are not necessary as, perhaps, a good reason for us to adopt different compromises in our immigration and border control to the rest of Europe?
Indeed."Your papers please" is a statement most of us will have never heard, and do not wish to.
If you don't want the benefits of an ID card (e.g. being able to identify the moron who just rear-ended you, just as one example among 1000s), fair enough.
But don't be surprised that illegal immigrants also find that an attractive proposition.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/297084/my-pa...
in summary article said:
Most (but by no means all) conservatives I know would have few problems with large-scale immigration if we didn’t have a welfare state that bequeaths so many benefits on citizens and non-citizens alike. I myself am a huge fan of legal immigration. But if you try to see things like a state for a second, it’s simply unsustainable to have a libertarian immigration policy and a liberal welfare state. Ultimately, if you don’t want cops asking for your papers, you need to get rid of one or the other.
monamimate said:
Bureaucracy?? That's funny, coming from the country that requires one to send copies of a recent electricity bill to confirm one's identity. How medieval is that? And you talk about our bureaucracy? An ID card is valid for 10 years, and requires only a 10-minute visit to the town hall! to renew! A tiny price to pay to ensure that one's identity can be proven and checked at all times.
You really tick all of the boxes don't you?I don't want my identity to have to be proven or checked at all times, thanks. Unless I've done something wrong. And then there are plenty of ways the police can do that. I particularly do not want my life impinged apon in order to make the place less appealing to people who shouldn't be here, you use border controls to prevent that, not making life so awkward that they no longer want to come here.
As for a "tiny price to pay"? I might point you to the massive riots the other year in france, caused by someone not having their ID card, legging it and getting shot. Or the hi-tech japanese one which was forged within a month of it being introduced. Or to Clarence Henry Willcock and the government scope-creep which lead to repeal of the original UK act. Or to the potential for abuse, inconvenience to the law abiding, hacking, and identity theft. Or the monetary cost, estimated in the billions.
But you'd not understand any of it, I fear.
s3fella said:
Plenty of people in the UK are more than happy to have ID cards. I think our politicians came up with the "lack of will of the people" to drop it as an excuse to cover for poor implementation and cost controls of the proposed system, again to cover the ineptitude of our Govt and public service.
Having said that, ID cards are not the be all and end all, but IMHO a step in the right direction.
Well, whether left or right wing, there are a very large number of individuals - for many and various reasons - very much opposed to the idea.Having said that, ID cards are not the be all and end all, but IMHO a step in the right direction.
Let us not forget that the state of law and liberty in the UK was once held up as the pinnacle. Blindly following the example of other nations, rather than sticking to our own principles is not, perhaps, our best plan.
I would agree with the logic that, to a large extent, it is either[/]i immigration (with continued levels of welfare for all) [i]or ID cards.
monamimate said:
Sorry, couldn't let your second comment pass, as I almost choked on my coffee...
The reason that Britain is the popular destination has nothing to do with "decency, fair-play etc"...(do you really think other countries still view the UK as such? Over the week-end, I can assure you that the press on this side of the channel had a rather different vocabulary to describe UK - selfish and arrogant being the most popular )
It is because the UK, unlike any other EU country, has the weakest possible controls on identity. The steadfast refusal to allow the introduction of ID cards makes it extremely easy to disappear, and then get work in the UK's booming grey economy.
Want to stop immigrants coming to the UK? Get some better laws in place!
Oh, and while you're feeling so virtuous about how many UK has saved, you might want to remember that, proportionally, the UK has taken fewer refugees/ immigrants than most EU countries... (source: Eurostat)
Unless you propose that everyone has to show their ID card for everyday transactions like buying food, then going off-radar isn't going to be any harder, just because you have to show a little piece of plastic for the transactions that, being off-radar, you aren't going to be making. Of course disappearing like this means you can no longer claim any State handouts, or take any conventional paid employment, so the only way you'll get caught is if we have the police going round demanding at random that citizens produce their ID, even when they are just minding their own business. Which, being one of very few countries in Europe that hasn't been run by fascists at some time, we don't really have embedded in our culture.The reason that Britain is the popular destination has nothing to do with "decency, fair-play etc"...(do you really think other countries still view the UK as such? Over the week-end, I can assure you that the press on this side of the channel had a rather different vocabulary to describe UK - selfish and arrogant being the most popular )
It is because the UK, unlike any other EU country, has the weakest possible controls on identity. The steadfast refusal to allow the introduction of ID cards makes it extremely easy to disappear, and then get work in the UK's booming grey economy.
Want to stop immigrants coming to the UK? Get some better laws in place!
Oh, and while you're feeling so virtuous about how many UK has saved, you might want to remember that, proportionally, the UK has taken fewer refugees/ immigrants than most EU countries... (source: Eurostat)
Edited by monamimate on Tuesday 25th October 13:16
Why have we taken so few genuine refugees? Probably because they'd have to navigate the Bay of Biscay in a rubber boat first. But carry on sneering at this country if it makes you feel superior.
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