More fun and games in Calais
Discussion
monamimate said:
Could you explain to me what is easier then? Providing an ID card to the police/insurers/bank/employer etc that immediately confirms who you are, or the UK way, in which you are also asked for your papers, but, for example, given 5 days to bring them to a local police station, giving one ample opportunity to lie about one's identity or disappear in the meantime, leading to expensive and wasteful searches by the police subsequently. Talk about bureaucracy. If you want to open bank account, you need to prove who you are, and what do you get asked to provide? A copy of a utility bill!! How laughable! How archaic!
Please do tell me what the benefit of not having an ID card is (or indeed, what are the negatives of having one)? I'd love to know.
You have to provide photo ID to prove you are who you say you are, either a passport or driving licence.Please do tell me what the benefit of not having an ID card is (or indeed, what are the negatives of having one)? I'd love to know.
The utility bill is proof of your current address you dumb f
k . 
Edited by Oakey on Tuesday 25th October 15:31
Oakey said:
monamimate said:
Could you explain to me what is easier then? Providing an ID card to the police/insurers/bank/employer etc that immediately confirms who you are, or the UK way, in which you are also asked for your papers, but, for example, given 5 days to bring them to a local police station, giving one ample opportunity to lie about one's identity or disappear in the meantime, leading to expensive and wasteful searches by the police subsequently. Talk about bureaucracy. If you want to open bank account, you need to prove who you are, and what do you get asked to provide? A copy of a utility bill!! How laughable! How archaic!
Please do tell me what the benefit of not having an ID card is (or indeed, what are the negatives of having one)? I'd love to know.
You have to provide photo ID to prove you are who you say you are, either a passport or driving licence.Please do tell me what the benefit of not having an ID card is (or indeed, what are the negatives of having one)? I'd love to know.
The utility bill is proof of your current address you dumb f
k . 
UK government has a policy of paying for the costs required to keep refugees in the safest area near the home country of the refugee. We spend Billions doing that.
The reason we do that is to enable people to return to their country, once it is safe to do so. It also reduces the risks of exploitation from people smugglers and the risks of death on the journey to Europe.
People who leave their native area as refugees, rarely go back home once peace arrives.
To say the UK is not doing its part for refugees is very wide of the mark!
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-to-invest-an...
The reason we do that is to enable people to return to their country, once it is safe to do so. It also reduces the risks of exploitation from people smugglers and the risks of death on the journey to Europe.
People who leave their native area as refugees, rarely go back home once peace arrives.
To say the UK is not doing its part for refugees is very wide of the mark!
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-to-invest-an...
Oakey said:
You have to provide photo ID to prove you are who you say you are, either a passport or driving licence.
The utility bill is proof of your current address you dumb fk .
You mean like this proof of current address?The utility bill is proof of your current address you dumb f
k . Edited by Oakey on Tuesday 25th October 15:31
https://www.pdffiller.com/100056988-fillable-utili...
http://www.replaceyourdocs.com
Plus dozens of other similar sites.
dumbfk indeed
audidoody said:
Oakey said:
You have to provide photo ID to prove you are who you say you are, either a passport or driving licence.
The utility bill is proof of your current address you dumb fk .
You mean like this proof of current address?The utility bill is proof of your current address you dumb f
k . Edited by Oakey on Tuesday 25th October 15:31
https://www.pdffiller.com/100056988-fillable-utili...
http://www.replaceyourdocs.com
Plus dozens of other similar sites.
dumbfk indeed
audidoody said:
No, I mean like this
Of course, there's no market in fake passports, driving licences or ID cards so that's a relief.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dark-web-trade-e...
Edited by Oakey on Tuesday 25th October 15:57
Oakey said:
No, I mean like this
Of course, there's no market in fake passports, driving licences or ID cards so that's a relief.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dark-web-trade-e...
That's Childish. Of course, there's no market in fake passports, driving licences or ID cards so that's a relief.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dark-web-trade-e...
Edited by Oakey on Tuesday 25th October 15:57
But amusing
Digga said:
ell, whether left or right wing, there are a very large number of individuals - for many and various reasons - very much opposed to the idea.
Let us not forget that the state of law and liberty in the UK was once held up as the pinnacle. Blindly following the example of other nations, rather than sticking to our own principles is not, perhaps, our best plan.
I would agree with the logic that, to a large extent, it is either[/]i immigration (with continued levels of welfare for all) [i]or ID cards.
I think you're right many people are opposed to it, but I'd wager more aren't. The idea in principal I mean. I can understand people being against it because it would no doubt be a huge fLet us not forget that the state of law and liberty in the UK was once held up as the pinnacle. Blindly following the example of other nations, rather than sticking to our own principles is not, perhaps, our best plan.
I would agree with the logic that, to a large extent, it is either[/]i immigration (with continued levels of welfare for all) [i]or ID cards.
k up and cost a bomb if you leave something like this to the Govt and Civil Service (!), but the idea itself, I think the majority would be ok with. monamimate said:
Goaty Bill 2 said:
Indeed.
"Your papers please" is a statement most of us will have never heard, and do not wish to.
Could you explain to me what is easier then? Providing an ID card to the police/insurers/bank/employer etc that immediately confirms who you are, or the UK way, in which you are also asked for your papers, but, for example, given 5 days to bring them to a local police station, giving one ample opportunity to lie about one's identity or disappear in the meantime, leading to expensive and wasteful searches by the police subsequently. Talk about bureaucracy. If you want to open bank account, you need to prove who you are, and what do you get asked to provide? A copy of a utility bill!! How laughable! How archaic!"Your papers please" is a statement most of us will have never heard, and do not wish to.
Please do tell me what the benefit of not having an ID card is (or indeed, what are the negatives of having one)? I'd love to know.
I'm quite sure most EU countries don't generally behave in such a draconian fashion, but some recent additions to the EU certainly did in the recent past. Croatia being an example that I know of.
You haven't been able to open a (first) bank account in the UK without a passport or photo driving licence for quite a number of years. Since around 1994 in fact.
You may indeed be asked for a utility bill or other bank statement. It's quite possible to move house without updating pretty much anything else (though the law may disagree with that choice).
The difference is, you may freely choose not to drive or not to travel outside the country, and you may choose to surrender those documents to the authorities at any time.
If the authorities don't constantly require people to produce an ID card, I don't see how that will stop illegal immigrants much more effectively than the current system.
Oakey said:
You have to provide photo ID to prove you are who you say you are, either a passport or driving licence.
The utility bill is proof of your current address you dumb fk .
Why do you feel the need to get so bloody offensive?The utility bill is proof of your current address you dumb f
k . Edited by Oakey on Tuesday 25th October 15:31
I'm open to other points of view, as others have tried to offer, but just yelling like a yob at me does not reflect well on you.
Of course it's for the address, which, guess what, appears on our ID cards, so we do't have to faff about like you do with various bits of crumpled paper.
You're obviously happy living in the past, so good for you.
Oakey said:
Digga said:
Clearly he hasn't opened a bank account in the UK in recent years.
It's as if the concept of needing to prove where you live at that particular moment in time is completely lost on him.What a joke!
The Brits are the only ones without ID cards, I believe, and no other EU country ever complains about having them, on the contrary.
They protect and assist the law abiding and make life more difficult fro the less desirable.
By the way,over here, we don't need an old bill to prove where we live, it's on the ID card. But you go ahead with your wads of crumpled papers, happily believing that makes you "free" !
John145 said:
The benefits are not monetary if that's what you want to hear.
Your analogy could be extended to chipping, DNA testing, finger printing and ID carding every new arrival and current resident - yes of course that would bring benefits but is the cost (not just monetary) of this real value?
Some countries have chosen one extreme (no national databases for anything), others have national ID card schemes, here in the UK we are a little closer to freedom side than the police state side (although we have CCTV everywhere unlike any other country in the world).
How did you (incorrectly) deduce that I was looking for a monetary benefit?Your analogy could be extended to chipping, DNA testing, finger printing and ID carding every new arrival and current resident - yes of course that would bring benefits but is the cost (not just monetary) of this real value?
Some countries have chosen one extreme (no national databases for anything), others have national ID card schemes, here in the UK we are a little closer to freedom side than the police state side (although we have CCTV everywhere unlike any other country in the world).
The whole conversation is about identifying citizens (or immigrants) in one's country, to manage benefits and curb abuses.
An ID card helps in that endeavour.
Oh sorry, did I offend you? The person who called us the 'laughing stock of the world' and 'idiots'? My apologies.
So, your ID card says address A but then you move house to address B, now what? How is your ID card proof of your address now? Perhaps you propose to make it a legal requirement to update your ID card every time you move? How draconian.
When applying for your ID card, how do you prove your address for them to put it on the card in the first place? Or do they just take your word for it?
What makes an ID card any more special or valid than a photo driving licence?
Even if we had ID cards, what makes you think banks, etc wouldn't still require two forms of proof?
So, your ID card says address A but then you move house to address B, now what? How is your ID card proof of your address now? Perhaps you propose to make it a legal requirement to update your ID card every time you move? How draconian.
When applying for your ID card, how do you prove your address for them to put it on the card in the first place? Or do they just take your word for it?
What makes an ID card any more special or valid than a photo driving licence?
Even if we had ID cards, what makes you think banks, etc wouldn't still require two forms of proof?
Edited by Oakey on Tuesday 25th October 17:49
230TE said:
Unless you propose that everyone has to show their ID card for everyday transactions like buying food, then going off-radar isn't going to be any harder, just because you have to show a little piece of plastic for the transactions that, being off-radar, you aren't going to be making. Of course disappearing like this means you can no longer claim any State handouts, or take any conventional paid employment, so the only way you'll get caught is if we have the police going round demanding at random that citizens produce their ID, even when they are just minding their own business. Which, being one of very few countries in Europe that hasn't been run by fascists at some time, we don't really have embedded in our culture.
Why have we taken so few genuine refugees? Probably because they'd have to navigate the Bay of Biscay in a rubber boat first. But carry on sneering at this country if it makes you feel superior.
You have a very quaint view of life in other countries. And a rather romantic one of Britain, the nation reputed to have the largest number of illegal sweat shops in Northern Europe.Why have we taken so few genuine refugees? Probably because they'd have to navigate the Bay of Biscay in a rubber boat first. But carry on sneering at this country if it makes you feel superior.
I don't sneer at the UK (I'm British), only at those who hold strong opinions based on incorrect perceptions and selected fragments of facts.
monamimate said:
Oakey said:
Digga said:
Clearly he hasn't opened a bank account in the UK in recent years.
It's as if the concept of needing to prove where you live at that particular moment in time is completely lost on him.You might agree with ID cards,it's clear we don't want them, and nor did the coalition Govt of 2010 when the ID cards Act of 2006 was scrapped.
With respect,you can take you card and insert it gently where the sun doesn't shine.
RT has quite an interesting article about the Calais situation, probably why our government is now trying to shut RT down https://www.rt.com/op-edge/363803-uks-immigration-...
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