Bridge collapse on M20
Discussion
AgentZ said:
rolando said:
As I understand it, only bridges 16' 3" or lower require a warning
See https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
The question I would ask: Is that leaflet only talking about non-Motorway bridges?See https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
AgentZ said:
rolando said:
As I understand it, only bridges 16' 3" or lower require a warning
See https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
The question I would ask: Is that leaflet only talking about non-Motorway bridges?See https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
http://www.standardsforhighways.co.uk/dmrb/vol6/se...
The situation in respect of existing bridges is explained here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
See clause 1.04:
The standard minimum clearance to be provided over
every part of the carriageway of a public highway is
16’6” (5.03m). All bridges with headroom less than this
value should be signed to identify the maximum height
of a vehicle which can safely pass on the carriageway under
the bridge without impacting on it.
For the purpose of this document the term carriageway is
deemed to be the part of the highway laid out for use by
vehicles, and includes hard shoulders where appropriate
So drivers can expect all unsigned bridges to be at least 16'6" clear of paved surfaces, including hard standings.
Guidance from Highways England states that a normal vehicle height should be less than 16'3" to make maximum use of the trunk road and motorway network. The 3 inch difference is intended to create a sensible tolerance.
There is no limit on load height, but it should be displayed in the cab:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/conte...
In this case the height was not illegal, but the driver should have been aware that he was at the same height as some unsigned bridges and considered the risk of a bridge strike on his route. He and the transport manager who posted on facebook seem to have believed that 16'6" was fine.
(edited to remove reference to 4.2m trailer height which no longer applies - double deckers are around 4.88m
Edited by Elysium on Wednesday 31st August 23:17
Elysium said:
The design standard for new bridges anywhere is 5.3m:
http://www.standardsforhighways.co.uk/dmrb/vol6/se...
The situation in respect of existing bridges is explained here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
See clause 1.04:
The standard minimum clearance to be provided over
every part of the carriageway of a public highway is
16’6” (5.03m). All bridges with headroom less than this
value should be signed to identify the maximum height
of a vehicle which can safely pass on the carriageway under
the bridge without impacting on it.
For the purpose of this document the term carriageway is
deemed to be the part of the highway laid out for use by
vehicles, and includes hard shoulders where appropriate
So drivers can expect all unsigned bridges to be at least 16'6" clear of paved surfaces, including hard standings.
Guidance from Highways England states that a normal vehicle height should be less than 16'3" to make maximum use of the trunk road and motorway network. The 3 inch difference is intended to create a sensible tolerance.
Regulations state that HGV trailer heights should not exceed 4.2m. There is no limit on load height, but it should be displayed in the cab:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/conte...
In this case the height was not illegal, but the driver should have been aware that he was at the same height as some unsigned bridges and considered the risk of a bridge strike on his route. He and the transport manager who posted on facebook seem to have believed that 16'6" was fine.
That clears it up for me thanks !http://www.standardsforhighways.co.uk/dmrb/vol6/se...
The situation in respect of existing bridges is explained here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
See clause 1.04:
The standard minimum clearance to be provided over
every part of the carriageway of a public highway is
16’6” (5.03m). All bridges with headroom less than this
value should be signed to identify the maximum height
of a vehicle which can safely pass on the carriageway under
the bridge without impacting on it.
For the purpose of this document the term carriageway is
deemed to be the part of the highway laid out for use by
vehicles, and includes hard shoulders where appropriate
So drivers can expect all unsigned bridges to be at least 16'6" clear of paved surfaces, including hard standings.
Guidance from Highways England states that a normal vehicle height should be less than 16'3" to make maximum use of the trunk road and motorway network. The 3 inch difference is intended to create a sensible tolerance.
Regulations state that HGV trailer heights should not exceed 4.2m. There is no limit on load height, but it should be displayed in the cab:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/conte...
In this case the height was not illegal, but the driver should have been aware that he was at the same height as some unsigned bridges and considered the risk of a bridge strike on his route. He and the transport manager who posted on facebook seem to have believed that 16'6" was fine.
So you load a digger onto the back of your truck at some place you've been sent to pick it up.... How does someone measure the maximum height accurately, exactly? I'd think it pretty hard to get it measured to a tolerance of a couple of inches or so....
Wouldn't it be better to say for example, if the min bridge height it 16'6" then the maximum load height should be no more than 15'6".... I mean, let's not fek about here with a couple of inches or so. Anything else that needs to be closer.... Escort it.
Wouldn't it be better to say for example, if the min bridge height it 16'6" then the maximum load height should be no more than 15'6".... I mean, let's not fek about here with a couple of inches or so. Anything else that needs to be closer.... Escort it.
essayer said:
How do you accurately measure the height of the digger arm anyway? Theodolite?
Quite easy really. Trailer bed to highest point of load using a measure with an arm that sticks out horizontally which you "hang" over the top. Then measure trailer bed to ground with trailer ride height and tractor unit ride height both in levelled off positions. This is Basics 123 for doing plant haulage or any kind of unusual/abnormal loads. It's the driver's responsibility legally to know his overall height.As for guy saying there should be a 15'6 maximum height -
That would put about 40% of haulage off the roads instantly and most deckers are around the 16' mark, so that would be the end of the overnight parcel delivery and pallet network companies.SilverSpur said:
So you load a digger onto the back of your truck at some place you've been sent to pick it up.... How does someone measure the maximum height accurately, exactly? I'd think it pretty hard to get it measured to a tolerance of a couple of inches or so....
Wouldn't it be better to say for example, if the min bridge height it 16'6" then the maximum load height should be no more than 15'6".... I mean, let's not fek about here with a couple of inches or so. Anything else that needs to be closer.... Escort it.
I was wondering that. Big depots I'm guessing have some kind of either actual physical height scale - I'm entertaining myself with a mental image of a trucker's "If you're THIS tall you…" sign in the style of amusement park rides - or perhaps some sort of laser based measuring gadget. Or just the dangly clang bar things to drive under?! Wouldn't it be better to say for example, if the min bridge height it 16'6" then the maximum load height should be no more than 15'6".... I mean, let's not fek about here with a couple of inches or so. Anything else that needs to be closer.... Escort it.
But I guess if someone's sent to pick a digger up from scene, that driver will totally depend on whoever booked the job to know the heights as I cannot imagine how you could possibly assess it outside a depot.
All that jazz said:
As for guy saying there should be a 15'6 maximum height - That would put about 40% of haulage off the roads instantly and most deckers are around the 16' mark, so that would be the end of the overnight parcel delivery and pallet network companies.
A lot of the supermarkets and the post office are using deckers too. That would put about 40% of haulage off the roads instantly and most deckers are around the 16' mark, so that would be the end of the overnight parcel delivery and pallet network companies.Private Pile said:
All that jazz said:
As for guy saying there should be a 15'6 maximum height - That would put about 40% of haulage off the roads instantly and most deckers are around the 16' mark, so that would be the end of the overnight parcel delivery and pallet network companies.
A lot of the supermarkets and the post office are using deckers too. That would put about 40% of haulage off the roads instantly and most deckers are around the 16' mark, so that would be the end of the overnight parcel delivery and pallet network companies.FlyingMeeces said:
But I guess if someone's sent to pick a digger up from scene, that driver will totally depend on whoever booked the job to know the heights as I cannot imagine how you could possibly assess it outside a depot.
Many years ago, I worked for a plant hire company doing deliveries of large plant equipment, including diggers, dumper trucks, etc.I was conscious of bridge heights and simply used a tape measure to verify the height of my loads. Hardly rocket science.
Mandat said:
FlyingMeeces said:
But I guess if someone's sent to pick a digger up from scene, that driver will totally depend on whoever booked the job to know the heights as I cannot imagine how you could possibly assess it outside a depot.
Many years ago, I worked for a plant hire company doing deliveries of large plant equipment, including diggers, dumper trucks, etc.I was conscious of bridge heights and simply used a tape measure to verify the height of my loads. Hardly rocket science.
FlyingMeeces said:
Mandat said:
FlyingMeeces said:
But I guess if someone's sent to pick a digger up from scene, that driver will totally depend on whoever booked the job to know the heights as I cannot imagine how you could possibly assess it outside a depot.
Many years ago, I worked for a plant hire company doing deliveries of large plant equipment, including diggers, dumper trucks, etc.I was conscious of bridge heights and simply used a tape measure to verify the height of my loads. Hardly rocket science.
Not sure why you are having difficulty in imagining how it would be done.
Mandat said:
FlyingMeeces said:
Mandat said:
FlyingMeeces said:
But I guess if someone's sent to pick a digger up from scene, that driver will totally depend on whoever booked the job to know the heights as I cannot imagine how you could possibly assess it outside a depot.
Many years ago, I worked for a plant hire company doing deliveries of large plant equipment, including diggers, dumper trucks, etc.I was conscious of bridge heights and simply used a tape measure to verify the height of my loads. Hardly rocket science.
Not sure why you are having difficulty in imagining how it would be done.
Difficulty imagining - dunno. Obviously never done anything like it or seen it done, totally knackered this evening probably not helping matters…
FlyingMeeces said:
Mandat said:
FlyingMeeces said:
Mandat said:
FlyingMeeces said:
But I guess if someone's sent to pick a digger up from scene, that driver will totally depend on whoever booked the job to know the heights as I cannot imagine how you could possibly assess it outside a depot.
Many years ago, I worked for a plant hire company doing deliveries of large plant equipment, including diggers, dumper trucks, etc.I was conscious of bridge heights and simply used a tape measure to verify the height of my loads. Hardly rocket science.
Not sure why you are having difficulty in imagining how it would be done.
Difficulty imagining - dunno. Obviously never done anything like it or seen it done, totally knackered this evening probably not helping matters…
Google "truck height measuring stick"
http://www.rhaonline.co.uk/vehicle--driver-accesso...
http://cscommercialproducts.co.uk/measuring-stick/
http://www.recoveryworld.co.uk/product/height-meas...
speedyguy said:
FlyingMeeces said:
Mandat said:
FlyingMeeces said:
Mandat said:
FlyingMeeces said:
But I guess if someone's sent to pick a digger up from scene, that driver will totally depend on whoever booked the job to know the heights as I cannot imagine how you could possibly assess it outside a depot.
Many years ago, I worked for a plant hire company doing deliveries of large plant equipment, including diggers, dumper trucks, etc.I was conscious of bridge heights and simply used a tape measure to verify the height of my loads. Hardly rocket science.
Not sure why you are having difficulty in imagining how it would be done.
Difficulty imagining - dunno. Obviously never done anything like it or seen it done, totally knackered this evening probably not helping matters…
Google "truck height measuring stick"
http://www.rhaonline.co.uk/vehicle--driver-accesso...
http://cscommercialproducts.co.uk/measuring-stick/
http://www.recoveryworld.co.uk/product/height-meas...
FWIW, this is what a Moxy 6x6 looks like:
As for post by Elysium - excellent stuff and much appreciated for dragging out all the relevant data. Seems to back up what the truckies on here were saying.
Using a 'measuring stick' isn't accurate enough when trying to see if a load height is either 16'5" or 16'6" is it? Its not a scientific method of measuring something to that level of accuracy.
The highest point of a load will not have a clear perpendicular drop from the very highest point to ground - so there could be an error. If the measurement has to be taken at an offset then again it isn't 100% accurate.
Running a tape measure also isn't 100% accurate unless there is a clear and uninterrupted drop between the very most highest point of the load and the ground.
As an example, give a dozen people a tape measure and ask them to measure someone's height and you'll get a consistently wrong measurement. It'll only be wrong by plus or minus a centimetre but it will still be wrong. You wont get the exact same measurement from all.
The highest point of a load will not have a clear perpendicular drop from the very highest point to ground - so there could be an error. If the measurement has to be taken at an offset then again it isn't 100% accurate.
Running a tape measure also isn't 100% accurate unless there is a clear and uninterrupted drop between the very most highest point of the load and the ground.
As an example, give a dozen people a tape measure and ask them to measure someone's height and you'll get a consistently wrong measurement. It'll only be wrong by plus or minus a centimetre but it will still be wrong. You wont get the exact same measurement from all.
SilverSpur said:
Using a 'measuring stick' isn't accurate enough when trying to see if a load height is either 16'5" or 16'6" is it? Its not a scientific method of measuring something to that level of accuracy.
This is PH, haven't we got any mad scientists, people with the ear of Chris Grayling and the contact details of dragons Den somewhere on here? 
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