This feels very wrong, police action

[Greendubber]

Bigends said:

La Liga said:

Bigends said:

He'd have been followed to the pub

Would he? Could he have not got a taxi to right outside the pub after not travelling with the supporters for example? Even if they had, were there sufficient resources available at the time to deal with him vs other demands? Which phase was he spotted if spotted etc etc.

Bigends said:

how would they have know he was in there otherwise.

Someone could have phoned the police. Perhaps the Landlord phoned licencing. A spotter could have been checking licensed premises, reported it to Silver and then a serial could have been deployed.

So many obvious variables and possibilities.

Doubt it - did exactly this myself for years. Hes one of Lutons highest profile supporters - do you honestly think they didnt know he was there? If the spotters and match day team were doing their job properly hed have been monitored throughout the game then tailed off afterwards to the pub. They shouldnt have just happened to chance across him. Why would anyone have contacted the Police - personally i'd never heard of the bloke until this thread. Plenty of possibilities as you say if he hadnt been causing problems on the dayand wasnt in breach of any banning order - cant see how they justified kicking him out of the pub - whetever happened to the 'without fear or favour'part of the Police oath

Of course he could have been there unseen. We dont actually know he even went to the game do we? Risk are always able to slip under the radar on match day, no spotter EVER can say they know the whereabouts of all risk on a match day, they dont always turn up is a good example of why!

I've heard of him, I've policed enough of his demos to realise the idiot hangers on that he attracts and the trouble they bring. Its perfectly reasonable for someone to have contacted the police about him being in a pub.

[Bigends]

Greendubber said:

Bigends said:

La Liga said:

Bigends said:

He'd have been followed to the pub

Would he? Could he have not got a taxi to right outside the pub after not travelling with the supporters for example? Even if they had, were there sufficient resources available at the time to deal with him vs other demands? Which phase was he spotted if spotted etc etc.

Bigends said:

how would they have know he was in there otherwise.

Someone could have phoned the police. Perhaps the Landlord phoned licencing. A spotter could have been checking licensed premises, reported it to Silver and then a serial could have been deployed.

So many obvious variables and possibilities.

Doubt it - did exactly this myself for years. Hes one of Lutons highest profile supporters - do you honestly think they didnt know he was there? If the spotters and match day team were doing their job properly hed have been monitored throughout the game then tailed off afterwards to the pub. They shouldnt have just happened to chance across him. Why would anyone have contacted the Police - personally i'd never heard of the bloke until this thread. Plenty of possibilities as you say if he hadnt been causing problems on the dayand wasnt in breach of any banning order - cant see how they justified kicking him out of the pub - whetever happened to the 'without fear or favour'part of the Police oath

Of course he could have been there unseen. We dont actually know he even went to the game do we? Risk are always able to slip under the radar on match day, no spotter EVER can say they know the whereabouts of all risk on a match day, they dont always turn up is a good example of why!

I've heard of him, I've policed enough of his demos to realise the idiot hangers on that he attracts and the trouble they bring. Its perfectly reasonable for someone to have contacted the police about him being in a pub.

The article says he went to the match - Who/why would anyone have called the Police if hes in there having a quiet drink and minding his own business - youd recognise his out out a pubful if you were in there with him would you? Absolute rubbish if you think he wasnt being targetted in there.

[Greendubber]

Bigends said:

Greendubber said:

Bigends said:

La Liga said:

Bigends said:

He'd have been followed to the pub

Would he? Could he have not got a taxi to right outside the pub after not travelling with the supporters for example? Even if they had, were there sufficient resources available at the time to deal with him vs other demands? Which phase was he spotted if spotted etc etc.

Bigends said:

how would they have know he was in there otherwise.

Someone could have phoned the police. Perhaps the Landlord phoned licencing. A spotter could have been checking licensed premises, reported it to Silver and then a serial could have been deployed.

So many obvious variables and possibilities.

Doubt it - did exactly this myself for years. Hes one of Lutons highest profile supporters - do you honestly think they didnt know he was there? If the spotters and match day team were doing their job properly hed have been monitored throughout the game then tailed off afterwards to the pub. They shouldnt have just happened to chance across him. Why would anyone have contacted the Police - personally i'd never heard of the bloke until this thread. Plenty of possibilities as you say if he hadnt been causing problems on the dayand wasnt in breach of any banning order - cant see how they justified kicking him out of the pub - whetever happened to the 'without fear or favour'part of the Police oath

Of course he could have been there unseen. We dont actually know he even went to the game do we? Risk are always able to slip under the radar on match day, no spotter EVER can say they know the whereabouts of all risk on a match day, they dont always turn up is a good example of why!

I've heard of him, I've policed enough of his demos to realise the idiot hangers on that he attracts and the trouble they bring. Its perfectly reasonable for someone to have contacted the police about him being in a pub.

The article says he went to the match - Who/why would anyone have called the Police if hes in there having a quiet drink and minding his own business - youd recognise his out out a pubful if you were in there with him would you? Absolute rubbish if you think he wasnt being targetted in there.

Damn right I'd recognise him.

You say he is being targetted, he may well have been but you appear to dissaprove when there could have been a very good reason for it. Just because you dont know doesnt make it automaticaly wrong does it? What is it they say, a mind is like a parachute..... works best when open and all that....

[Bigends]

Greendubber said:

Bigends said:

Greendubber said:

Bigends said:

La Liga said:

Bigends said:

He'd have been followed to the pub

Would he? Could he have not got a taxi to right outside the pub after not travelling with the supporters for example? Even if they had, were there sufficient resources available at the time to deal with him vs other demands? Which phase was he spotted if spotted etc etc.

Bigends said:

how would they have know he was in there otherwise.

Someone could have phoned the police. Perhaps the Landlord phoned licencing. A spotter could have been checking licensed premises, reported it to Silver and then a serial could have been deployed.

So many obvious variables and possibilities.

Doubt it - did exactly this myself for years. Hes one of Lutons highest profile supporters - do you honestly think they didnt know he was there? If the spotters and match day team were doing their job properly hed have been monitored throughout the game then tailed off afterwards to the pub. They shouldnt have just happened to chance across him. Why would anyone have contacted the Police - personally i'd never heard of the bloke until this thread. Plenty of possibilities as you say if he hadnt been causing problems on the dayand wasnt in breach of any banning order - cant see how they justified kicking him out of the pub - whetever happened to the 'without fear or favour'part of the Police oath

Of course he could have been there unseen. We dont actually know he even went to the game do we? Risk are always able to slip under the radar on match day, no spotter EVER can say they know the whereabouts of all risk on a match day, they dont always turn up is a good example of why!

I've heard of him, I've policed enough of his demos to realise the idiot hangers on that he attracts and the trouble they bring. Its perfectly reasonable for someone to have contacted the police about him being in a pub.

The article says he went to the match - Who/why would anyone have called the Police if hes in there having a quiet drink and minding his own business - youd recognise his out out a pubful if you were in there with him would you? Absolute rubbish if you think he wasnt being targetted in there.

Damn right I'd recognise him.

You say he is being targetted, he may well have been but you appear to dissaprove when there could have been a very good reason for it. Just because you dont know doesnt make it automaticaly wrong does it? What is it they say, a mind is like a parachute..... works best when open and all that....

sorry - just like to see the rules being applied properly - I have a very open mind and was put in this situation more than once by over zealous match commanders Cambs police clearly wanted him out of town and that was clearly the offices brief. It'll be interesting to see if the details of any complaint come out.

[Greendubber]

Bigends said:

Greendubber said:

Bigends said:

Greendubber said:

Bigends said:

La Liga said:

Bigends said:

He'd have been followed to the pub

Would he? Could he have not got a taxi to right outside the pub after not travelling with the supporters for example? Even if they had, were there sufficient resources available at the time to deal with him vs other demands? Which phase was he spotted if spotted etc etc.

Bigends said:

how would they have know he was in there otherwise.

Someone could have phoned the police. Perhaps the Landlord phoned licencing. A spotter could have been checking licensed premises, reported it to Silver and then a serial could have been deployed.

So many obvious variables and possibilities.

Doubt it - did exactly this myself for years. Hes one of Lutons highest profile supporters - do you honestly think they didnt know he was there? If the spotters and match day team were doing their job properly hed have been monitored throughout the game then tailed off afterwards to the pub. They shouldnt have just happened to chance across him. Why would anyone have contacted the Police - personally i'd never heard of the bloke until this thread. Plenty of possibilities as you say if he hadnt been causing problems on the dayand wasnt in breach of any banning order - cant see how they justified kicking him out of the pub - whetever happened to the 'without fear or favour'part of the Police oath

Of course he could have been there unseen. We dont actually know he even went to the game do we? Risk are always able to slip under the radar on match day, no spotter EVER can say they know the whereabouts of all risk on a match day, they dont always turn up is a good example of why!

I've heard of him, I've policed enough of his demos to realise the idiot hangers on that he attracts and the trouble they bring. Its perfectly reasonable for someone to have contacted the police about him being in a pub.

The article says he went to the match - Who/why would anyone have called the Police if hes in there having a quiet drink and minding his own business - youd recognise his out out a pubful if you were in there with him would you? Absolute rubbish if you think he wasnt being targetted in there.

Damn right I'd recognise him.

You say he is being targetted, he may well have been but you appear to dissaprove when there could have been a very good reason for it. Just because you dont know doesnt make it automaticaly wrong does it? What is it they say, a mind is like a parachute..... works best when open and all that....

sorry - just like to see the rules being applied properly - I have a very open mind and was put in this situation more than once by over zealous match commanders Cambs police clearly wanted him out of town and that was clearly the offices brief. It'll be interesting to see if the details of any complaint come out.

There is nothing to suggest the rules were applied incorrectly though but I doubt the police will counter the report (I wish they would) Also you are not in any position to assume Cambs police clearly wanted him out of town... you have nothing to base that assumption on.

Sec 35's have only been around a couple of years so I doubt you were asked to use them back in the day by anyone let alone an over zealous match day commanders.

[Elysium]

BIANCO said:

He's been labeled as a racist by the left because that's what they do if they don't like what someone is saying. They just shout racist, bigot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB7XaPT71eg

No this chap is definitely a racist. There is no other possible explanation for his behaviour.

[Einion Yrth]

Greendubber said:

you are not in any position to assume Cambs police clearly wanted him out of town... you have nothing to base that assumption on.

The only reportage that I have, and I accept that it's unlikely to be "true" in any objective sense, suggests that Camb.s police effectively ran him out of town. If there's another interpretation, then I'm all ears.

[Funkycoldribena]

Elysium said:

BIANCO said:

He's been labeled as a racist by the left because that's what they do if they don't like what someone is saying. They just shout racist, bigot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB7XaPT71eg

No this chap is definitely a racist. There is no other possible explanation for his behaviour.

I asked a page back where's the racism?
In your mind and the usual suspects there is,but I'm failing to see it.

[Bigends]

Greendubber said:

Bigends said:

Greendubber said:

Bigends said:

Greendubber said:

Bigends said:

La Liga said:

Bigends said:

He'd have been followed to the pub

Would he? Could he have not got a taxi to right outside the pub after not travelling with the supporters for example? Even if they had, were there sufficient resources available at the time to deal with him vs other demands? Which phase was he spotted if spotted etc etc.

Bigends said:

how would they have know he was in there otherwise.

Someone could have phoned the police. Perhaps the Landlord phoned licencing. A spotter could have been checking licensed premises, reported it to Silver and then a serial could have been deployed.

So many obvious variables and possibilities.

Doubt it - did exactly this myself for years. Hes one of Lutons highest profile supporters - do you honestly think they didnt know he was there? If the spotters and match day team were doing their job properly hed have been monitored throughout the game then tailed off afterwards to the pub. They shouldnt have just happened to chance across him. Why would anyone have contacted the Police - personally i'd never heard of the bloke until this thread. Plenty of possibilities as you say if he hadnt been causing problems on the dayand wasnt in breach of any banning order - cant see how they justified kicking him out of the pub - whetever happened to the 'without fear or favour'part of the Police oath

Of course he could have been there unseen. We dont actually know he even went to the game do we? Risk are always able to slip under the radar on match day, no spotter EVER can say they know the whereabouts of all risk on a match day, they dont always turn up is a good example of why!

I've heard of him, I've policed enough of his demos to realise the idiot hangers on that he attracts and the trouble they bring. Its perfectly reasonable for someone to have contacted the police about him being in a pub.

The article says he went to the match - Who/why would anyone have called the Police if hes in there having a quiet drink and minding his own business - youd recognise his out out a pubful if you were in there with him would you? Absolute rubbish if you think he wasnt being targetted in there.

Damn right I'd recognise him.

You say he is being targetted, he may well have been but you appear to dissaprove when there could have been a very good reason for it. Just because you dont know doesnt make it automaticaly wrong does it? What is it they say, a mind is like a parachute..... works best when open and all that....

sorry - just like to see the rules being applied properly - I have a very open mind and was put in this situation more than once by over zealous match commanders Cambs police clearly wanted him out of town and that was clearly the offices brief. It'll be interesting to see if the details of any complaint come out.

There is nothing to suggest the rules were applied incorrectly though but I doubt the police will counter the report (I wish they would) Also you are not in any position to assume Cambs police clearly wanted him out of town... you have nothing to base that assumption on.

Sec 35's have only been around a couple of years so I doubt you were asked to use them back in the day by anyone let alone an over zealous match day commanders.

Exactly - the Police will just let this story fester and not negate it. If I was still in Policing i'd defend the officers actions to the hilt - could have been me next week in their position. Agreed - not S35 in my case but on many occasions we were told to carry out certain actions and not to question what we were told. Cambs were clearly sh*t scared that his presence would lead to trouble if he wasnt moved on - I can guess that much
Just my views- I had plenty of experience in this field and was in on this branch of Police work from the early days. You can have your views - thats the purpose of these forums

Edited by Bigends on Monday 29th August 18:13

[Digga]

Funkycoldribena said:

Elysium said:

BIANCO said:

He's been labeled as a racist by the left because that's what they do if they don't like what someone is saying. They just shout racist, bigot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB7XaPT71eg

No this chap is definitely a racist. There is no other possible explanation for his behaviour.

I asked a page back where's the racism?
In your mind and the usual suspects there is,but I'm failing to see it.

My take on him us that he may well have set out as a racist, but does appear to now be more concerned about extremism.

Given what even the BBC have recently reported about Luton; only last week they ran a story about undercover Muslim police officers uncovering illegal discussion groups of extremist and pro-IS leanings, the warning people like him have made do not seem too far fetched.

[Einion Yrth]

Bigends said:

If I was still in Policing i'd defend the officers actions to the hilt

Me, personally, I'd find out if their actions were lawful and proportionate first, but, there you go. Different strokes...

[Greendubber]

Einion Yrth said:

Bigends said:

If I was still in Policing i'd defend the officers actions to the hilt

Me, personally, I'd find out if their actions were lawful and proportionate first, but, there you go. Different strokes...

And with only the report to go on there is no way to know why he was dispersed....

[Einion Yrth]

Greendubber said:

Einion Yrth said:

Bigends said:

If I was still in Policing i'd defend the officers actions to the hilt

Me, personally, I'd find out if their actions were lawful and proportionate first, but, there you go. Different strokes...

And with only the report to go on there is no way to know why he was dispersed....

Absolutely, I would hope to know more in future, albeit probably a forlorn hope. I'm just not someone who believes that police officers are never in the wrong, sometimes they are, massively and the "backs to the wall lads" attitude that I see on these boards all too often from serving and former police does not encourage me; it should be a job, not a club and if your colleagues are at fault it should be admitted.

[Bigends]

Ive just had a look at the whole video - Luton spotters were there in the pub and spoke with him - and blame the decision on being made locally and appear quite awkward over the action being taken by Cambs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVOGpdAz7Lk

Edited by Bigends on Monday 29th August 18:50

Edited by Bigends on Monday 29th August 18:50

[Greendubber]

Einion Yrth said:

Greendubber said:

Einion Yrth said:

Bigends said:

If I was still in Policing i'd defend the officers actions to the hilt

Me, personally, I'd find out if their actions were lawful and proportionate first, but, there you go. Different strokes...

And with only the report to go on there is no way to know why he was dispersed....

Absolutely, I would hope to know more in future, albeit probably a forlorn hope. I'm just not someone who believes that police officers are never in the wrong, sometimes they are, massively and the "backs to the wall lads" attitude that I see on these boards all too often from serving and former police does not encourage me; it should be a job, not a club and if your colleagues are at fault it should be admitted.

And if they are proven to have acted incorrectly you wont see any officers supporting them. Dont confuse looking at it from another point of view, based on doing the job as a "backs to the wall lads" attitude. I think you would prefer police officers to be a bit more open minded and look at the bigger picture than just go with the account given in a news report...

[Einion Yrth]

Greendubber said:

And if they are proven to have acted incorrectly you wont see any officers supporting them.

In the absence of adequate evidence I'd prefer not to see any officers supporting them, at least in public, also. Note, I would expect no condemnation either, merely a non-committed attitude, much as I try to hold myself (I'll make no secret of the fact that I am not a lover of authority, but I try to be fair).

Greendubber said:

Dont confuse looking at it from another point of view, based on doing the job as a "backs to the wall lads" attitude. I think you would prefer police officers to be a bit more open minded and look at the bigger picture than just go with the account given in a news report...

I would wholeheartedly agree with the latter portion of this, with the obvious caveat alluded to above.

[Elysium]

Digga said:

Funkycoldribena said:

Elysium said:

BIANCO said:

He's been labeled as a racist by the left because that's what they do if they don't like what someone is saying. They just shout racist, bigot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB7XaPT71eg

No this chap is definitely a racist. There is no other possible explanation for his behaviour.

I asked a page back where's the racism?
In your mind and the usual suspects there is,but I'm failing to see it.

My take on him us that he may well have set out as a racist, but does appear to now be more concerned about extremism.

Given what even the BBC have recently reported about Luton; only last week they ran a story about undercover Muslim police officers uncovering illegal discussion groups of extremist and pro-IS leanings, the warning people like him have made do not seem too far fetched.

He is an extremist. He is also rather like Anjem Choudary - provocative, but always careful to remain just on the right side of the law. He is a former BNP member who claims that he did not realise the organisation excluded non-whites.

He has devoted his life to racism regardless of his dancing around and trying to avoid the word. He is of no help at all in the fight against extremism, be it Muslim or otherwise.

Tommy Robinson is just one of a number of false names he uses and is itself a tribute to a football hooligan. This is not a normal man in the street being victimised. Sometimes you must reap what you sew.

[///ajd]

Elysium said:

He is an extremist. He is also rather like Anjem Choudary - provocative, but always careful to remain just on the right side of the law. He is a former BNP member who claims that he did not realise the organisation excluded non-whites.

He has devoted his life to racism regardless of his dancing around and trying to avoid the word. He is of no help at all in the fight against extremism, be it Muslim or otherwise.

Tommy Robinson is just one of a number of false names he uses and is itself a tribute to a football hooligan. This is not a normal man in the street being victimised. Sometimes you must reap what you sew.

Indeed.

The statements he now might be a reformed character are frankly amazingly naive.

It seems this is the age we live in now in the UK.

[rich85uk]

Elysium said:

He is an extremist. He is also rather like Anjem Choudary - provocative, but always careful to remain just on the right side of the law. He is a former BNP member who claims that he did not realise the organisation excluded non-whites.

He has devoted his life to racism regardless of his dancing around and trying to avoid the word. He is of no help at all in the fight against extremism, be it Muslim or otherwise.

Tommy Robinson is just one of a number of false names he uses and is itself a tribute to a football hooligan. This is not a normal man in the street being victimised. Sometimes you must reap what you sew.

Exactly

And people keep forgetting some points here
1)he should not of been within a certain distance of the Cambridge Utd stadium
2)he should not of been in the city centre before,during or after the match
3)he should not of been within a certain distance of the train station before during or after the match


Having met someone caught up in Oxford Utd trouble the bans are harsh, he breached all the above and he knew it. Chances are he has more conditions to his ban and given the connection between EDL and football hooligans he probably has to surrender his passport at certain times.

These are the bans issued to Brighton fans for throwing chairs and bottles during the Euro 2016
http://www.sussex.police.uk/news/sussex-football-h...

They might have been extra pissed off with him for getting into the ground to watch the game but the police did the right thing here, had someone had a Cambridge supporter had a pint glass smashed in their face by him the police would have had their pants pulled down

[Einion Yrth]

rich85uk said:

Exactly

And people keep forgetting some points here
1)he should not of have been within a certain distance of the Cambridge Utd stadium
2)he should not of have been in the city centre before,during or after the match
3)he should not of have been within a certain distance of the train station before during or after the match

Can you show some evidence of this order? It appears to be lacking elsewhere in the thread, if such was in force I am somewhat unsure of why he was not arrested for breach.