This feels very wrong, police action

[WinstonWolf]

FredClogs said:

WinstonWolf said:

FredClogs said:

WinstonWolf said:

So Muslims are a race, blimey.

Then again if you live in a caravan you've got your own race these days so I suppose anything is possible..

At the risk of breaking the internet with the 12 billionth repetition of the obvious question - if religions and cultures don't define race could you explain what the races of man are? Feel free to quote whatever 19th century Victorian Eugenicists you particularly align to.

It's semantics Jim, but not as we know it....

I'm sorry oh great Fred, what race *are* Muslims then?

What race are you?

That's a question, not an answer. What race are Muslims, I thought many different races followed Islam, you seem to think this is incorrect.

Religion != race.

[rscott]

WinstonWolf said:

That's a question, not an answer. What race are Muslims, I thought many different races followed Islam, you seem to think this is incorrect.

Religion != race.

However, inciting religious hatred & inciting racial hatred are both offences, punishable in the same way. https://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/prosecution/rr...

[FredClogs]

WinstonWolf said:

That's a question, not an answer. What race are Muslims, I thought many different races followed Islam, you seem to think this is incorrect.

Religion != race.

I think the best way to define race in its modern day common usage is as a description of a large number of cultural, ethnically or genetically similar peoples.

No one would suggest the actions of the Nazis during the holocaust wasn't racist because Jews are a religion not a race.

Its a pointless and factious point.

[Elysium]

WinstonWolf said:

That's a question, not an answer. What race are Muslims, I thought many different races followed Islam, you seem to think this is incorrect.

Religion != race.

Yes, but that is a meaningless point.

Race is a cultural construct. We are all mixed race to some extent.

In the context of racism a race is a particular ethnic group. Racism is a problem because the prejudice faced by individuals is based on something that they cannot change. They have no escape from it.

As an enlightened society we have decided that there are two other things that individuals cannot change - their sexuality and their religious beliefs. You may not agree with this, but that does not matter as the law still stands.

Prejudice against Asians is racist, prejudice against Muslims is religious hatred. Use different terms if you like but they stem from exactly the same thing and they are both illegal.

[Rovinghawk]

Elysium said:

As an enlightened society we have decided that there are two other things that individuals cannot change - their sexuality and their religious beliefs.

What is an apostate?

[WinstonWolf]

FredClogs said:

WinstonWolf said:

That's a question, not an answer. What race are Muslims, I thought many different races followed Islam, you seem to think this is incorrect.

Religion != race.

I think the best way to define race in its modern day common usage is as a description of a large number of cultural, ethnically or genetically similar peoples.

No one would suggest the actions of the Nazis during the holocaust wasn't racist because Jews are a religion not a race.

Its a pointless and factious point.

Ah, it's only pointless now I've corrected your misunderstanding...

[Elysium]

Rovinghawk said:

Elysium said:

As an enlightened society we have decided that there are two other things that individuals cannot change - their sexuality and their religious beliefs.

What is an apostate?

Something that is irrelevant to the point I have just made.

Our legal system does not expect people to have to renounce their religious beliefs to escape prejudice.

[WinstonWolf]

blindswelledrat said:

WinstonWolf said:

FredClogs said:

WinstonWolf said:

So Muslims are a race, blimey.

Then again if you live in a caravan you've got your own race these days so I suppose anything is possible..

At the risk of breaking the internet with the 12 billionth repetition of the obvious question - if religions and cultures don't define race could you explain what the races of man are? Feel free to quote whatever 19th century Victorian Eugenicists you particularly align to.

It's semantics Jim, but not as we know it....

I'm sorry oh great Fred, what race *are* Muslims then?

It's okay, Winston. We can use the phrase bigoted xenophobe if it hurts you so much to accept that a 1000 year old definition of a word might have changed a little over the years.
There, now, is that better?

Check you out, I think Tommy and Choudary are cut from the very same cloth. I just happen to understand the difference between a religion and a race.

[blindswelledrat]

WinstonWolf said:

blindswelledrat said:

WinstonWolf said:

FredClogs said:

WinstonWolf said:

So Muslims are a race, blimey.

Then again if you live in a caravan you've got your own race these days so I suppose anything is possible..

At the risk of breaking the internet with the 12 billionth repetition of the obvious question - if religions and cultures don't define race could you explain what the races of man are? Feel free to quote whatever 19th century Victorian Eugenicists you particularly align to.

It's semantics Jim, but not as we know it....

I'm sorry oh great Fred, what race *are* Muslims then?

It's okay, Winston. We can use the phrase bigoted xenophobe if it hurts you so much to accept that a 1000 year old definition of a word might have changed a little over the years.
There, now, is that better?

Check you out, I think Tommy and Choudary are cut from the very same cloth. I just happen to understand the difference between a religion and a race.

Yet you can't grasp that language evolves and definitions change and that 99.9% of people would consider being anti-muslim to be 'racist' by any modern definition.
THe only people who would not accept that language evolution, it appears, are the ones who want to say whatever they like about muslims and use a 500 year old dictionary as some kind of magic shield. It's about as convincing as 'I have a black friend so I can't be racist'.

[WinstonWolf]

blindswelledrat said:

WinstonWolf said:

blindswelledrat said:

WinstonWolf said:

FredClogs said:

WinstonWolf said:

So Muslims are a race, blimey.

Then again if you live in a caravan you've got your own race these days so I suppose anything is possible..

At the risk of breaking the internet with the 12 billionth repetition of the obvious question - if religions and cultures don't define race could you explain what the races of man are? Feel free to quote whatever 19th century Victorian Eugenicists you particularly align to.

It's semantics Jim, but not as we know it....

I'm sorry oh great Fred, what race *are* Muslims then?

It's okay, Winston. We can use the phrase bigoted xenophobe if it hurts you so much to accept that a 1000 year old definition of a word might have changed a little over the years.
There, now, is that better?

Check you out, I think Tommy and Choudary are cut from the very same cloth. I just happen to understand the difference between a religion and a race.

Yet you can't grasp that language evolves and definitions change and that 99.9% of people would consider being anti-muslim to be 'racist' by any modern definition.
THe only people who would not accept that language evolution, it appears, are the ones who want to say whatever they like about muslims and use a 500 year old dictionary as some kind of magic shield. It's about as convincing as 'I have a black friend so I can't be racist'.

Come on BSR, you're usually better than this...

We have two different words because they're two different things. I'm full on PC, I hate all religions equally.

[FredClogs]

WinstonWolf said:

FredClogs said:

WinstonWolf said:

That's a question, not an answer. What race are Muslims, I thought many different races followed Islam, you seem to think this is incorrect.

Religion != race.

I think the best way to define race in its modern day common usage is as a description of a large number of cultural, ethnically or genetically similar peoples.

No one would suggest the actions of the Nazis during the holocaust wasn't racist because Jews are a religion not a race.

Its a pointless and factious point.

Ah, it's only pointless now I've corrected your misunderstanding...

I've got a mate, his parents come from Sri Lanka, he's of no particular strong religious tradition and neither are his family - he's just a bloke like any other bloke except he's got a ridiculously long surname. A few weeks ago, for no particular reason, someone threw bacon out of a car at him as he was out jogging and suggested he go back to where he is from, "effing muslim effer"

So is that or is that not a racist incident? The police seem to think it is.

[WinstonWolf]

FredClogs said:

WinstonWolf said:

FredClogs said:

WinstonWolf said:

That's a question, not an answer. What race are Muslims, I thought many different races followed Islam, you seem to think this is incorrect.

Religion != race.

I think the best way to define race in its modern day common usage is as a description of a large number of cultural, ethnically or genetically similar peoples.

No one would suggest the actions of the Nazis during the holocaust wasn't racist because Jews are a religion not a race.

Its a pointless and factious point.

Ah, it's only pointless now I've corrected your misunderstanding...

I've got a mate, his parents come from Sri Lanka, he's of no particular strong religious tradition and neither are his family - he's just a bloke like any other bloke except he's got a ridiculously long surname. A few weeks ago, for no particular reason, someone threw bacon out of a car at him as he was out jogging and suggested he go back to where he is from, "effing muslim effer"

So is that or is that not a racist incident? The police seem to think it is.

That would be an act of religious hatred. Seems like the tt lobbing the bacon is as confused as you are.

[bitchstewie]

blindswelledrat said:

Yet you can't grasp that language evolves and definitions change and that 99.9% of people would consider being anti-muslim to be 'racist' by any modern definition.
THe only people who would not accept that language evolution, it appears, are the ones who want to say whatever they like about muslims and use a 500 year old dictionary as some kind of magic shield. It's about as convincing as 'I have a black friend so I can't be racist'.

To be fair whilst I think quite a few of the usual suspects are playing semantics I struggle a little with the idea that if you're anti-muslim you're racist even if I think many of them are getting caught up around the words rather than perhaps the sentiment.

I say that simply because I'm white and male and from the UK and if I went out tomorrow and converted to Islam I wouldn't consider my race to have changed even though I'd be a Muslim.

Honestly though, it's so fked up that once again the thread is being steered in yet another anti-Islam direction and we have people defending Tommy Robinson who is an expert victim who's very good at saying just enough to be able to pull the "Who me?" innocent face around many of his comments.

[blindswelledrat]

WinstonWolf said:

blindswelledrat said:

WinstonWolf said:

blindswelledrat said:

WinstonWolf said:

FredClogs said:

WinstonWolf said:

So Muslims are a race, blimey.

Then again if you live in a caravan you've got your own race these days so I suppose anything is possible..

At the risk of breaking the internet with the 12 billionth repetition of the obvious question - if religions and cultures don't define race could you explain what the races of man are? Feel free to quote whatever 19th century Victorian Eugenicists you particularly align to.

It's semantics Jim, but not as we know it....

I'm sorry oh great Fred, what race *are* Muslims then?

It's okay, Winston. We can use the phrase bigoted xenophobe if it hurts you so much to accept that a 1000 year old definition of a word might have changed a little over the years.
There, now, is that better?

Check you out, I think Tommy and Choudary are cut from the very same cloth. I just happen to understand the difference between a religion and a race.

Yet you can't grasp that language evolves and definitions change and that 99.9% of people would consider being anti-muslim to be 'racist' by any modern definition.
THe only people who would not accept that language evolution, it appears, are the ones who want to say whatever they like about muslims and use a 500 year old dictionary as some kind of magic shield. It's about as convincing as 'I have a black friend so I can't be racist'.

Come on BSR, you're usually better than this...
We have two different words because they're two different things. I'm full on PC, I hate all religions equally.

As though that undermines my point?
Of course you hate all religions equally. That's why you spend 95% of your spare time on PH decrying Catholics and other Christia.....oh, actually it's just muslims isn't it?
'Racist' is one word. There isn't a word for being anti-religion. Why do you think that is?
Why do you even care so much how a word is used? Do you think being anti-muslim is actually fine and labelling it 'racist' somehow cheapens a perfectly reasonable point of view?

In a funny way you have a point. If this thread WAS actually about British churchgoers and your contempt of them I don't think I would even consider the word racist for that. So why is it banded about so often on anti-muslim threads? Perhaps in your case it really is only the religion you are contemptuous of, but if you look at your peers on these kind of threads, if you genuinely believe it is a religious issue for everyone on them, then you are spectacularly naïve

[Alpinestars]

WinstonWolf said:

That would be an act of religious hatred. Seems like the tt lobbing the bacon is as confused as you are.

And as confused as the Judge and Defence Lawyer.

Maybe we're all confused.

[AJS-]

Elysium said:

Yes, but that is a meaningless point.

Race is a cultural construct. We are all mixed race to some extent.

In the context of racism a race is a particular ethnic group. Racism is a problem because the prejudice faced by individuals is based on something that they cannot change. They have no escape from it.

As an enlightened society we have decided that there are two other things that individuals cannot change - their sexuality and their religious beliefs. You may not agree with this, but that does not matter as the law still stands.

Prejudice against Asians is racist, prejudice against Muslims is religious hatred. Use different terms if you like but they stem from exactly the same thing and they are both illegal.

That sounds like you are saying out enlightened society recognises the sharia principle that Muslims cannot change their religion on pain of death.

Of course they can change their religion any time they like.

[WinstonWolf]

blindswelledrat said:

WinstonWolf said:

blindswelledrat said:

WinstonWolf said:

blindswelledrat said:

WinstonWolf said:

FredClogs said:

WinstonWolf said:

So Muslims are a race, blimey.

Then again if you live in a caravan you've got your own race these days so I suppose anything is possible..

At the risk of breaking the internet with the 12 billionth repetition of the obvious question - if religions and cultures don't define race could you explain what the races of man are? Feel free to quote whatever 19th century Victorian Eugenicists you particularly align to.

It's semantics Jim, but not as we know it....

I'm sorry oh great Fred, what race *are* Muslims then?

It's okay, Winston. We can use the phrase bigoted xenophobe if it hurts you so much to accept that a 1000 year old definition of a word might have changed a little over the years.
There, now, is that better?

Check you out, I think Tommy and Choudary are cut from the very same cloth. I just happen to understand the difference between a religion and a race.

Yet you can't grasp that language evolves and definitions change and that 99.9% of people would consider being anti-muslim to be 'racist' by any modern definition.
THe only people who would not accept that language evolution, it appears, are the ones who want to say whatever they like about muslims and use a 500 year old dictionary as some kind of magic shield. It's about as convincing as 'I have a black friend so I can't be racist'.

Come on BSR, you're usually better than this...
We have two different words because they're two different things. I'm full on PC, I hate all religions equally.

As though that undermines my point?
Of course you hate all religions equally. That's why you spend 95% of your spare time on PH decrying Catholics and other Christia.....oh, actually it's just muslims isn't it?
'Racist' is one word. There isn't a word for being anti-religion. Why do you think that is?
Why do you even care so much how a word is used? Do you think being anti-muslim is actually fine and labelling it 'racist' somehow cheapens a perfectly reasonable point of view?

In a funny way you have a point. If this thread WAS actually about British churchgoers and your contempt of them I don't think I would even consider the word racist for that. So why is it banded about so often on anti-muslim threads? Perhaps in your case it really is only the religion you are contemptuous of, but if you look at your peers on these kind of threads, if you genuinely believe it is a religious issue for everyone on them, then you are spectacularly naïve

You only see what your preconceptions allow you to see...

Christianity getting a good kicking here, I particularly like the bit about the animals on the ark not eating each other:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

I have no peers, I only speak for myself.

[AJS-]

By the way, according to this batst notion that Islam is a race and criticising a 1,400 year old book is racism, can Muslims be racist against non-Muslims?

[Elysium]

AJS- said:

Elysium said:

Yes, but that is a meaningless point.

Race is a cultural construct. We are all mixed race to some extent.

In the context of racism a race is a particular ethnic group. Racism is a problem because the prejudice faced by individuals is based on something that they cannot change. They have no escape from it.

As an enlightened society we have decided that there are two other things that individuals cannot change - their sexuality and their religious beliefs. You may not agree with this, but that does not matter as the law still stands.

Prejudice against Asians is racist, prejudice against Muslims is religious hatred. Use different terms if you like but they stem from exactly the same thing and they are both illegal.

That sounds like you are saying out enlightened society recognises the sharia principle that Muslims cannot change their religion on pain of death.

Of course they can change their religion any time they like.

Only to you. An enlightened society does not expect people to need to abandon their deeply held religious beliefs to escape from prejudice.

[anonymous-user]

AJS- said:

By the way, according to this batst notion that Islam is a race and criticising a 1,400 year old book is racism, can Muslims be racist against non-Muslims?

Not on blindswelledrat's watch they can't.
Down at his ancestral home " Utopia Gardens" everything is just tickety boo
Once he pops on his rosy tints everyone just gets along with everyone else and they all just love each other