This feels very wrong, police action

[Countdown]

voyds9 said:

Perhaps because its under appeal.

And you may feel it was a stretch applying for it in the first place after reading the following

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/tommy-robinson-ex-edl-lea...

He seems to generally sail very close to breaking the law but staying defensibly on the lawful side. He appears to be a reasonably clever man (or his team) and I would imagine most of his actions are done with an awful lot of planning.

He has been sentenced for (amongst other things) assault, mortgage fraud, passport fraud.

Wikipedia said:

On being released for, Robinson told the BBC that he was dismayed to discover that the EDL's ranks had been swollen with racist and neo-Nazi supporters:

And you think he's "reasonably clever"?

[voyds9]

Countdown said:

And you think he's "reasonably clever"?

He engineers encounters such as this to generate news. He gets on the news every few weeks after being thrown out of a pub, attacked in the streets etc
Most of which try to show Islam in a bad light or the police giving preferential treatment to Islam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZWKQ9GxPJI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U9HKlEluD4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEI0TKkX9_o

Yes underlying it all he appears to be a thug/football hooligan but he is certainly no footsoldier. iirc all the above 3 have been on mainstream news.

[anonymous-user]

BIANCO said:

All the people who instantly hate him usually don't have a clue what he stands for. They have just listened to the left media or some lentil eating friend without having idea who he is.

Or just look at his criminal record.

[Bigends]

Greendubber said:

Bigends said:

Greendubber said:

Bigends said:

Greendubber said:

Bigends said:

turbobloke said:

Greendubber said:

Bigends said:

Greendubber said:

Quite, I deal with lots of football 'risk' fans and all of the ones on banning orders get locked up if they breach. I have never seen a dispersal used to get rid of them if there is an offence they can be arrested for... such as breaching a banning order.

Cambs exec clearly werent happy having him in town so wanted him out.

Edited by Bigends on Sunday 28th August 23:54

Obviously but if he's breached a banning order he should have been arrested rather than dispersed.

As there is at least one link earlier in the thread regarding a ban, do you as BiB have any thoughts on how this individual got to watch the game - intel failure followed by realisation and a face saving exercise in the pub? This is nothing more than a question! After all if he was clocked in videos at the match, arrest would still be possible surely?

It'll all depend on the conditions of the ban imposed. It could just be for home games at Luton. The Police have known he was in Cambridge as soon as football spotters picked him up pre match. If not - he'd have been picked up on CCTV in the ground. Being such a high profile target theyd have been looking for him. He'd have been followed to the pub - how would they have know he was in there otherwise. Therefore it seems they had ample opportunity to deal with him during the day and should have arrested him and not merely moved him out quoting the act that they did as some spurious reason. He didnt dare not comply -the first cross word from him would have seen him arrested for a public order offence. Probably lucky for him the the incident was filmed.

I doubt he was followed around, followed to the pub or that they would have been looking for him in the ground via CCTV. Chances are someone in the boozer phoned 999 because 'that EDL blokes here' so they've sent a serial to have a look.

To be able to use a Sec 35 there needs to be authority in place, a bobby cant just tip up and use it to get rid of someone without the conditions being set by the authorising officer such as start and end time and the exclusion area etc. If there was an authority in place there must have been something happening or intel to suggest it might as the dispersals are not used at every match. Maybe they wanted him gone due to a load of fans/E E EDL morons planning to tip up at the pub for a racist drink with him, who knows. Get rid of him and its problem solved, he is a total st magnet.

Believe me- - theyd have known exactly where he was - I was a football spotter with a league club for over 12yrs (Spotters course attended at Sedgely park GMP in Jan 1991). He'd have been picked up during the course of the day, then followed to the pub. Theyd have had intel from Luton that hes travelling to the Cambs game and the Luton spotters would have picked him up early in the day That serial wasnt 'just having a look' they knew exactly what they were going to and would have been briefed what to do.

Edited by Bigends on Monday 29th August 10:16

Possibly but being as we're talking about spotting I'm a current premier league club spotter, trained 4 years ago.

I mentioned someone might have phoned up and said he was there hence the serial going. I'd imagine the bronze would have told them what to do if they find him but we dont know whats been fed into the match day commander about Robinson do we? Most likely in town to perform in the latest Tommy 'I need some publicity' Robinson show, push a few peoples buttons and to cause a scene, even if thats by having a beer with his kids there.

I still think that if he had breached in any way he'd have been locked up. I'm sure he'll go to court over the dispersal and it'll all come out in the wash. I know there are legal challenges currently over dispersals issued by some forces last season by gaffers who didnt know how to use them properly so it'll maybe go the way of the old Sec 27's. Sec 35 is more aimed at kids outside chippys causing bother to locals but it seems to be getting used for footy fans which I'm not entirely sure is the ideal use....

Agreed - but with the crowd sizes attracted by Luton and Cambridge - I policed both when my lot got into the lower divisions - its quite simple to pick individuals up on matchdays. Do you really think most of the cops there would actually know what a dispersal order was - let alone quote the regs without being briefed to do so?

Yes I do, I know officers in my force are pretty familiar with it so it should be no different to this lot as they look to be level 2 PO trained.

There is NO way theyve gone into that pub cold, without being briefed on what to do once in there

Edited by Bigends on Monday 29th August 13:26

[Greendubber]

Bigends said:

Greendubber said:

Bigends said:

Greendubber said:

Bigends said:

Greendubber said:

Bigends said:

turbobloke said:

Greendubber said:

Bigends said:

Greendubber said:

Quite, I deal with lots of football 'risk' fans and all of the ones on banning orders get locked up if they breach. I have never seen a dispersal used to get rid of them if there is an offence they can be arrested for... such as breaching a banning order.

Cambs exec clearly werent happy having him in town so wanted him out.

Edited by Bigends on Sunday 28th August 23:54

Obviously but if he's breached a banning order he should have been arrested rather than dispersed.

As there is at least one link earlier in the thread regarding a ban, do you as BiB have any thoughts on how this individual got to watch the game - intel failure followed by realisation and a face saving exercise in the pub? This is nothing more than a question! After all if he was clocked in videos at the match, arrest would still be possible surely?

It'll all depend on the conditions of the ban imposed. It could just be for home games at Luton. The Police have known he was in Cambridge as soon as football spotters picked him up pre match. If not - he'd have been picked up on CCTV in the ground. Being such a high profile target theyd have been looking for him. He'd have been followed to the pub - how would they have know he was in there otherwise. Therefore it seems they had ample opportunity to deal with him during the day and should have arrested him and not merely moved him out quoting the act that they did as some spurious reason. He didnt dare not comply -the first cross word from him would have seen him arrested for a public order offence. Probably lucky for him the the incident was filmed.

I doubt he was followed around, followed to the pub or that they would have been looking for him in the ground via CCTV. Chances are someone in the boozer phoned 999 because 'that EDL blokes here' so they've sent a serial to have a look.

To be able to use a Sec 35 there needs to be authority in place, a bobby cant just tip up and use it to get rid of someone without the conditions being set by the authorising officer such as start and end time and the exclusion area etc. If there was an authority in place there must have been something happening or intel to suggest it might as the dispersals are not used at every match. Maybe they wanted him gone due to a load of fans/E E EDL morons planning to tip up at the pub for a racist drink with him, who knows. Get rid of him and its problem solved, he is a total st magnet.

Believe me- - theyd have known exactly where he was - I was a football spotter with a league club for over 12yrs (Spotters course attended at Sedgely park GMP in Jan 1991). He'd have been picked up during the course of the day, then followed to the pub. Theyd have had intel from Luton that hes travelling to the Cambs game and the Luton spotters would have picked him up early in the day That serial wasnt 'just having a look' they knew exactly what they were going to and would have been briefed what to do.

Edited by Bigends on Monday 29th August 10:16

Possibly but being as we're talking about spotting I'm a current premier league club spotter, trained 4 years ago.

I mentioned someone might have phoned up and said he was there hence the serial going. I'd imagine the bronze would have told them what to do if they find him but we dont know whats been fed into the match day commander about Robinson do we? Most likely in town to perform in the latest Tommy 'I need some publicity' Robinson show, push a few peoples buttons and to cause a scene, even if thats by having a beer with his kids there.

I still think that if he had breached in any way he'd have been locked up. I'm sure he'll go to court over the dispersal and it'll all come out in the wash. I know there are legal challenges currently over dispersals issued by some forces last season by gaffers who didnt know how to use them properly so it'll maybe go the way of the old Sec 27's. Sec 35 is more aimed at kids outside chippys causing bother to locals but it seems to be getting used for footy fans which I'm not entirely sure is the ideal use....

Agreed - but with the crowd sizes attracted by Luton and Cambridge - I policed both when my lot got into the lower divisions - its quite simple to pick individuals up on matchdays. Do you really think most of the cops there would actually know what a dispersal order was - let alone quote the regs without being briefed to do so?

Yes I do, I know officers in my force are pretty familiar with it so it should be no different to this lot as they look to be level 2 PO trained.

There is NO way theyve gone into that pub cold, without being briefed on what to do once in there

Edited by Bigends on Monday 29th August 13:26

Hang on, what point are you now making?

Im pretty sure my last reply was regarding the officers knowledge of how dispersals work..... not why they were sent to the pub in the first place.

I have already said we dont know what intel the bronze was acting on and that they could have only been there because someone said the EDL bloke was there.

[Countdown]

BIANCO said:

desolate said:

BIANCO said:

All the people who instantly hate him usually don't have a clue what he stands for. They have just listened to the left media or some lentil eating friend without having idea who he is.

Or just look at his criminal record.

You hate someone for lying on a mortgage application, head butting a fellow neo nazi and protesting about footballers being able to wear a poppy?

FTFY

[anonymous-user]

BIANCO said:

You hate someone for lying on a mortgage application, head butting a neo nazi and protesting about footballers being able to wear a poppy?

Is that the extent of his criminal record? (No need to answer as I really am not not bothered)

I wouldn't use the word hate in respect of my feelings towards him, I really don't care and have no respect for him at all.

he is inconsequential and should be treated as such. It's a shame that the slightly cack handed way this was handled has given him publicity.

There are plenty of rabble rousers like him on all sides of the argument.

[FN2TypeR]

Him having a criminal record isn't reason enough per se, I know a few people with criminal convictions who are decent enough.

Being a racist knobber however - that'll do it.

[grumbledoak]

desolate said:

Is that the extent of his criminal record?

And how many thousands of people used self-certified mortgages? How many got even investigated for it?

Nelson Mandela and Aung San Suu Kyi were both jailbirds. Sometimes that just means that the state doesn't like what you are saying.

[Funkycoldribena]

FN2TypeR said:

Him having a criminal record isn't reason enough per se, I know a few people with criminal convictions who are decent enough.

Being a racist knobber however - that'll do it.

Where's the racism?

[anonymous-user]

grumbledoak said:

Nelson Mandela and Aung San Suu Kyi were both jailbirds. Sometimes that just means that the state doesn't like what you are saying.

Yes now I have thought about it
Tommy Robinson, Nelson Mandela and Aung San Sue Kyi are all cut from the same cloth.

Come the revolution I am sure he will be seen as such by all

[Funkycoldribena]

desolate said:

Yes now I have thought about it
Tommy Robinson, Nelson Mandela and Aung San Sue Kyi are all cut from the same cloth.

Come the revolution I am sure he will be seen as such by all

I don't remember Robinson being leader of a terrorist organisation or owning a gun though..

[anonymous-user]

Funkycoldribena said:

I don't remember Robinson being leader of a terrorist organisation or owning a gun though..

I don't think he has done either.

[BlackLabel]

grumbledoak said:

And how many thousands of people used self-certified mortgages? How many got even investigated for it

The self cert mortgage fraud prosecution was an interesting one in that his bail conditions for it stopped him giving his talk at Oxford University as he wasn't allowed to engage in any political activity.

Is that normal? To be out on bail for a financial related matter yet have completely unrelated bail conditions placed on you.

I think it's hard to defend Robinson's past actions - he claims to only be against Muslim extremists yet dig a bit deeper and it's clear he hates pretty much all Muslims. And then he hides behind the "I'm not racist because Muslims aren't a race" excuse.

The EDL marches he led were also extremely damaging - to local businesses, the local community, to the police budgets etc and they achieved very little.

[Countdown]

BlackLabel said:

<snip>I think it's hard to defend Robinson's past actions - he claims to only be against Muslim extremists yet dig a bit deeper and it's clear he hates pretty much all Muslims. And then he hides behind the "I'm not racist because Muslims aren't a race" excuse.<snip>

Hmmmm...... I'm experiencing a strange sense of deja vu...

[s2art]

BlackLabel said:

u.

I think it's hard to defend Robinson's past actions - he claims to only be against Muslim extremists yet dig a bit deeper and it's clear he hates pretty much all Muslims. And then he hides behind the "I'm not racist because Muslims aren't a race" excuse.

Thats not how he came across on the TV program where he meets various muslims. Either he is a very good actor or is not particularly racist.

[Elysium]

s2art said:

Thats not how he came across on the TV program where he meets various muslims. Either he is a very good actor or is not particularly racist.

I am pretty sure it is the first one. Look at the whole Quilliam charade.

[voyds9]

BIANCO said:

In all the clips all he was doing is nothing wrong and being attacked by violent idiots. How is that Robinson's fault he is just proving his point that the people he criticizes. And that's all he does criticizes them.

You say hes trying to show Islam in a bad light, well its doesnt seem to hard to do.

All the people who instantly hate him usually don't have a clue what he stands for. They have just listened to the left media or some lentil eating friend without having idea who he is.

I would agree that in the past he as surrounded himself with the wrong sort of people who are genuinely just racist thugs. But I find it hard to disagree with a lot of the things he saying.

That was the point I was trying to make.
He knows his audience, he knows who is upset by him, he puts himself in places to generate confrontation and therefore make a story.
Nothing wrong with that and goes to prove his point.
He should be able to walk down any street without being attacked.

[anonymous-user]

Bigends said:

He'd have been followed to the pub

Would he? Could he have not got a taxi to right outside the pub after not travelling with the supporters for example? Even if they had, were there sufficient resources available at the time to deal with him vs other demands? Which phase was he spotted if spotted etc etc.

Bigends said:

how would they have know he was in there otherwise.

Someone could have phoned the police. Perhaps the Landlord phoned licencing. A spotter could have been checking licensed premises, reported it to Silver and then a serial could have been deployed.

So many obvious variables and possibilities.

[Bigends]

La Liga said:

Bigends said:

He'd have been followed to the pub

Would he? Could he have not got a taxi to right outside the pub after not travelling with the supporters for example? Even if they had, were there sufficient resources available at the time to deal with him vs other demands? Which phase was he spotted if spotted etc etc.

Bigends said:

how would they have know he was in there otherwise.

Someone could have phoned the police. Perhaps the Landlord phoned licencing. A spotter could have been checking licensed premises, reported it to Silver and then a serial could have been deployed.

So many obvious variables and possibilities.

Doubt it - did exactly this myself for years. Hes one of Lutons highest profile supporters - do you honestly think they didnt know he was there? If the spotters and match day team were doing their job properly hed have been monitored throughout the game then tailed off afterwards to the pub. They shouldnt have just happened to chance across him. Why would anyone have contacted the Police - personally i'd never heard of the bloke until this thread. Plenty of possibilities as you say if he hadnt been causing problems on the dayand wasnt in breach of any banning order - cant see how they justified kicking him out of the pub - whetever happened to the 'without fear or favour'part of the Police oath