Notting Hill Carnival crime fest.
Discussion
V6Alfisti said:
Stuff
I know Notting Hill is a lovely part of town (I've a few friends who live there/LadGrove/Bayswater, but you seem like the Carnival is a massive downer for you, and you have a tiny bit of sympathy from me.However, there are plenty of other lovely parts of town to rent in (even the adjacent bits that don't get affected by the Carnival), so why would you choose there? And why in God's name would you try to return at a time when you know it's going to be busy (5pm on Monday is pretty much peak time!) if you hate it so much?
The Carnival is pretty well-publicised, and I'm certain it's been around longer than you or I have been Londoners. If it bothers you so much, it's very easy to avoid. This is the first year in ages I haven't visited in some shape or another - instead I spent the day running errands around town, and wouldn't have even known it was on.
People I know who live in NH generally make their peace with the fact that you either need to get on with it or get out of town on Carnival weekend. It's not ideal, but it's been this way as long as most can remember, so it's hardly news.
C70R said:
I know Notting Hill is a lovely part of town (I've a few friends who live there/LadGrove/Bayswater, but you seem like the Carnival is a massive downer for you, and you have a tiny bit of sympathy from me.
However, there are plenty of other lovely parts of town to rent in (even the adjacent bits that don't get affected by the Carnival), so why would you choose there? And why in God's name would you try to return at a time when you know it's going to be busy (5pm on Monday is pretty much peak time!) if you hate it so much?
The Carnival is pretty well-publicised, and I'm certain it's been around longer than you or I have been Londoners. If it bothers you so much, it's very easy to avoid. This is the first year in ages I haven't visited in some shape or another - instead I spent the day running errands around town, and wouldn't have even known it was on.
People I know who live in NH generally make their peace with the fact that you either need to get on with it or get out of town on Carnival weekend. It's not ideal, but it's been this way as long as most can remember, so it's hardly news.
We liked the flat and area, so chose it. I am not saying that it is a surprise there is a festival, but the simple fact that it is a complete nightmare for residents over that period.However, there are plenty of other lovely parts of town to rent in (even the adjacent bits that don't get affected by the Carnival), so why would you choose there? And why in God's name would you try to return at a time when you know it's going to be busy (5pm on Monday is pretty much peak time!) if you hate it so much?
The Carnival is pretty well-publicised, and I'm certain it's been around longer than you or I have been Londoners. If it bothers you so much, it's very easy to avoid. This is the first year in ages I haven't visited in some shape or another - instead I spent the day running errands around town, and wouldn't have even known it was on.
People I know who live in NH generally make their peace with the fact that you either need to get on with it or get out of town on Carnival weekend. It's not ideal, but it's been this way as long as most can remember, so it's hardly news.
5pm on Monday is 2 hours before official closing, from 7pm-10pm it is still rammed as people try to leave (think of 1 million people going the opposite way to you). I also would have got home in 30 minute, if it wasn't for the police blockage that changes every year. The first bit getting to that blockade was bad, but the redirection was terrible. Most people then have things to do at home, before they start work the next day - especially if they have effectively been ejected from their property for the whole weekend/bank holiday.
So there is no good time to return and most people I know have not made 'peace' with the fact they have to leave their home for a number of days and then get trampled on upon their return.
V6Alfisti said:
C70R said:
I know Notting Hill is a lovely part of town (I've a few friends who live there/LadGrove/Bayswater, but you seem like the Carnival is a massive downer for you, and you have a tiny bit of sympathy from me.
However, there are plenty of other lovely parts of town to rent in (even the adjacent bits that don't get affected by the Carnival), so why would you choose there? And why in God's name would you try to return at a time when you know it's going to be busy (5pm on Monday is pretty much peak time!) if you hate it so much?
The Carnival is pretty well-publicised, and I'm certain it's been around longer than you or I have been Londoners. If it bothers you so much, it's very easy to avoid. This is the first year in ages I haven't visited in some shape or another - instead I spent the day running errands around town, and wouldn't have even known it was on.
People I know who live in NH generally make their peace with the fact that you either need to get on with it or get out of town on Carnival weekend. It's not ideal, but it's been this way as long as most can remember, so it's hardly news.
We liked the flat and area, so chose it. I am not saying that it is a surprise there is a festival, but the simple fact that it is a complete nightmare for residents over that period.However, there are plenty of other lovely parts of town to rent in (even the adjacent bits that don't get affected by the Carnival), so why would you choose there? And why in God's name would you try to return at a time when you know it's going to be busy (5pm on Monday is pretty much peak time!) if you hate it so much?
The Carnival is pretty well-publicised, and I'm certain it's been around longer than you or I have been Londoners. If it bothers you so much, it's very easy to avoid. This is the first year in ages I haven't visited in some shape or another - instead I spent the day running errands around town, and wouldn't have even known it was on.
People I know who live in NH generally make their peace with the fact that you either need to get on with it or get out of town on Carnival weekend. It's not ideal, but it's been this way as long as most can remember, so it's hardly news.
5pm on Monday is 2 hours before official closing, from 7pm-10pm it is still rammed as people try to leave (think of 1 million people going the opposite way to you). I also would have got home in 30 minute, if it wasn't for the police blockage that changes every year. The first bit getting to that blockade was bad, but the redirection was terrible. Most people then have things to do at home, before they start work the next day - especially if they have effectively been ejected from their property for the whole weekend/bank holiday.
So there is no good time to return and most people I know have not made 'peace' with the fact they have to leave their home for a number of days and then get trampled on upon their return.
You knew you were arriving home at peak time - you still did it, and moaned about it.
It's hard to have too much sympathy, to be honest - even though I agree that NHC is a bit of a nightmare of locals.
Were you a 40-year resident, I'd think differently. But I'm guessing you've only lived in the area for a couple of years, right?
V6Alfisti said:
We liked the flat and area, so chose it.
....and Carnival has been happening there for 50 years.I can understand that it's a PITA if you're not inclined to join in but TBH it's bit like moving to Henley and trying to close the Regatta because of the traffic problems or moving to Brands Hatch an complaining about noise from cars using the circuit.
I moved to the area in 89 looking forward to it and have embraced it ever since. I had the most fun when I lived slap bang in the middle. The peak was waking up and finding Ministry of Sound setting up outside my living room. Saved me schlepping all the way down to Elephant and Castle with my membership card.
You apologists can continue on and on as you like (I also lived there, as previously posted, and my experience aligns with V6Alfristi's comments above) blind to the fact that NHC lost it's many years ago and is clearly not fit to be held on residential streets.
As I've said - there's are two bloody great parks within two miles - go bother the ducks!
And to suggest a resident perhaps shouldn't live there then - ridiculous
As I've said - there's are two bloody great parks within two miles - go bother the ducks!
And to suggest a resident perhaps shouldn't live there then - ridiculous
AMG Merc said:
You apologists
That's a bit steep - comparing my enjoyment and support of carnival with war crimes.I lived off Ladbroke Grove and then on Westbourne Park Road for a decade and the spent the next decade half a mile north of Carnival in Kensal Rise.
Loved it then. Love it now.
(sorry)
BJG1 said:
400 people a month are injured in knife attacks in London. I would be interested to know if the Carnival adds to that or simply changes the place they happen in for a day
Interesting point this one. Having grown up around there, I moved back post-uni and lived in the middle of the carnival route. Enjoyed it for a few years, but got progressively hacked off with the rubbish, piss and s
t left everywhere.There were a couple of stabbings on our street over 5 or 6 years at carnival, but there were also blood trails and rolling dog fights down the street outside of carnival times. So is that any worse? Probably not, and to be fair, I never got stabbed...
So whilst throwing a number of gangs together in the same place and getting them drunk probably doesn't reduce violent crime, I'm not convinced its any worse than any randomly selected few weeks of normal life in London.
I do think the crime stats vastly under report the actual crime levels however.
A 'normal' weekend does not have every resource the Met and surrounding Forces can muster put into one small area to contain and prevent violence.
A 'normal' weekend does not entail cancelling the days off of all staff.
A 'normal weekend does nor require control centres and incident rooms.
It's laughable that some are trying to portray the 'Carnival' as no different than a Saturday night.
A 'normal' weekend does not entail cancelling the days off of all staff.
A 'normal weekend does nor require control centres and incident rooms.
It's laughable that some are trying to portray the 'Carnival' as no different than a Saturday night.
C70R said:
You knew about the Carnival - you still rented the flat, and moaned about it.
You knew you were arriving home at peak time - you still did it, and moaned about it.
It's hard to have too much sympathy, to be honest - even though I agree that NHC is a bit of a nightmare of locals.
Were you a 40-year resident, I'd think differently. But I'm guessing you've only lived in the area for a couple of years, right?
It's quite easy being an outsider looking in, and it's your perogative to have no sympathy. I wasn't looking for it.You knew you were arriving home at peak time - you still did it, and moaned about it.
It's hard to have too much sympathy, to be honest - even though I agree that NHC is a bit of a nightmare of locals.
Were you a 40-year resident, I'd think differently. But I'm guessing you've only lived in the area for a couple of years, right?
The fact is, it is a PITA for residents. I can have a moan about it and I have
.As a resident you expect noise and for it to be busy, but there are some key elements/frustrations that you don't anticipate
Could it be better managed - yes. (I.e Glastonbury residents are able to access certain roads, that are otherwise blocked off. So why can't residents of NH?)
Is the perception of how you will be affected by the carnival, vs the practical reality quite different. Yes e.g Forcing residents around a 1hr30 loop of carnage, instead why not let residents through when there are no pedestrians inbetween. This is the bit that really peeves me.
Do you need to have been to the carnival from end to end to understand more about how it functions. Yes
Is it realistic to wait until a carnival comes around, before deciding to move there. No
Elroy Blue said:
A 'normal' weekend does not have every resource the Met and surrounding Forces can muster put into one small area to contain and prevent violence.
A 'normal' weekend does not entail cancelling the days off of all staff.
A 'normal weekend does nor require control centres and incident rooms.
It's laughable that some are trying to portray the 'Carnival' as no different than a Saturday night.
Actually, I said "any randomly selected few weeks", as in a few weeks worth of crime. Perhaps that wasn't clear. A 'normal' weekend does not entail cancelling the days off of all staff.
A 'normal weekend does nor require control centres and incident rooms.
It's laughable that some are trying to portray the 'Carnival' as no different than a Saturday night.
craigjm said:
CTO said:
craigjm said:
and dont forget everyone is searched going into Glastonbury.
No, they arent.The crime at glastonbury is people nicking stuff from tents and people dealing so blatantly that the police can't give them a pass. The former is way down now too. I think assaults and violence are very rare.
V6Alfisti said:
Is it realistic to wait until a carnival comes around, before deciding to move there. No
I was vaguely with you until this point.A MILLION PEOPLE A DAY are descending on the public, urban area where you quite fancy renting a flat. Surely common sense would suggest that it's going to be a nightmare. Surely you'd at least ask around or try and do a bit of your own research, wouldn't you?
C70R said:
I was vaguely with you until this point.
A MILLION PEOPLE A DAY are descending on the public, urban area where you quite fancy renting a flat. Surely common sense would suggest that it's going to be a nightmare. Surely you'd at least ask around or try and do a bit of your own research, wouldn't you?
Related to the other points, there is a vast difference between perception and how it actually works (examples above).A MILLION PEOPLE A DAY are descending on the public, urban area where you quite fancy renting a flat. Surely common sense would suggest that it's going to be a nightmare. Surely you'd at least ask around or try and do a bit of your own research, wouldn't you?
Of course research was done - ranging from it's great, to 'my goodness its busy'. However not knowing anyone previously in the inner circle, I did not hear the reality of.
If you live on streets x,y,z its really hard to get there because of x, y, z
Sometimes you may find that x
The bit near the canal is quieter
The police have absolutely zero arrangements for residents (because a non-resident would obviously not know)
The facts about how it is managed remains, and things could be done to improve it that are not evident through the hours of research you clearly do before moving an inch.
I was having a moan about how it is managed and the impact, I am not saying it should be cancelled and that the world is at an end. Stop making it a bigger deal than portrayed.
AC43 said:
The best tactic if you live in it is not to leave.
Then you get to be part of one of Europe's biggest street parties for free and you don't have the hassle of getting in and out.
Worked for me :-)
Indeed. I have friends who live in the area. They use the Friday/Saturday to get supplies in (meaning that they don't need to leave the house), so that they can spend the day sitting out on their roof-terrace with a BBQ and the music in the background. They will pop down to take a wander around, returning to their flat when they feel like it. Couldn't think of anything better, personally.Then you get to be part of one of Europe's biggest street parties for free and you don't have the hassle of getting in and out.
Worked for me :-)
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