Notting Hill Carnival crime fest.
Discussion
Not a footie person but if this were a soccer match wouldn't the home team be fined for fan behaviour? How about the Carnival management be held responsible for bad/criminal behaviour (not the Council and not the Police)?
Still can't help thinking it's well past it's 'sell by' and should be moved to Hyde Park though - ticket or no ticket
Still can't help thinking it's well past it's 'sell by' and should be moved to Hyde Park though - ticket or no ticket
BJG1 said:
R8Steve said:
Really? I'm shocked, i thought the Notting Hill carnival was just a big MMA contest...thanks for letting me know otherwise.
The stats provided by the OP show that while it may not be the primary activity it's certainly high up on the agenda.
They don't show that at all. Only 11 of the arrests relate to fighting. That could be literally one scrap. The stats provided by the OP show that while it may not be the primary activity it's certainly high up on the agenda.
454 people arrested, 64 for offensive weapons, stabbings, ABH, GBH, 17 assaults on police, etc, etc...you're probably right though, was probably just one scrap.
I still remember the awful smell that lingered in the air the days after 'carnival'. Worked in Notting Hill for several years and generally loved the experience. Regards Carnival I used to look forward to it. Reason being that most residents and businesses would board up and clear out for the duration. Hence I always got a 4-5 day break at that time of year without taking any leave entitlement. That stench though..will never forget that..not many places I would less rather be for August bank hol weekend
The money that the carnival generates is offset by the other costs.
There is a massive bill for policing.
All leave is cancelled for the police, everyone has to work. Other areas are left just to cover the carnival.
There are increased costs for the council in cleaning up etc.
Massive disruption for local residents and businesses.
The ambulance service also has to commit all its resources and st john ambulance use all their resources as well as private companies.
Then you have the transport costs extra buses trains etc.
I bet when everything is added up theres not much net gain if any.
It goes the local gangs something to fight about
There is a massive bill for policing.
All leave is cancelled for the police, everyone has to work. Other areas are left just to cover the carnival.
There are increased costs for the council in cleaning up etc.
Massive disruption for local residents and businesses.
The ambulance service also has to commit all its resources and st john ambulance use all their resources as well as private companies.
Then you have the transport costs extra buses trains etc.
I bet when everything is added up theres not much net gain if any.
It goes the local gangs something to fight about
billzeebub said:
I still remember the awful smell that lingered in the air the days after 'carnival'.
Heh heh. I remember leaving my gaff on Westbourne Park Road, suited and booted, wading through ankle deep detrius with my feet sticking to pavement all the way to the distant spot on the other side of the Grove where I'd dumped the car.Like I say it's amazing in this day and age that the event exits - and long may it continue.
Smiler. said:
jdw100 said:
stuttgartmetal said:
If it went to HP the locals couldn't sell red stripe out of their front garden.
It would become massively commercialised with food vans and stalls. It'd loose the earthiness
Yeah it's rough
You have to be young to enjoy it
It's not for middle class trendies with Tarquin and Bunty
Go, but leave at half five six
It all gets a bit sporty when it gets late
The fact that you just can't get to a toilet is laughable
Three hundred people in a queue using a toilet in ground floor flat.
Police are very light handed, it's a massive pr excercise, I always they couldn't win whatever way they played it
The local yoof in west london have gang issues which The police would've had a good eye on, and targeted individuals or groups to search. This would account for the knife carrying nicks.
The Police want it to be safe, and these nicks make it safer. They can't win.
Go on Sunday
12 to 530 - 6 o'clock.
Dress urban.
Probably the best post on here.It would become massively commercialised with food vans and stalls. It'd loose the earthiness
Yeah it's rough
You have to be young to enjoy it
It's not for middle class trendies with Tarquin and Bunty
Go, but leave at half five six
It all gets a bit sporty when it gets late
The fact that you just can't get to a toilet is laughable
Three hundred people in a queue using a toilet in ground floor flat.
Police are very light handed, it's a massive pr excercise, I always they couldn't win whatever way they played it
The local yoof in west london have gang issues which The police would've had a good eye on, and targeted individuals or groups to search. This would account for the knife carrying nicks.
The Police want it to be safe, and these nicks make it safer. They can't win.
Go on Sunday
12 to 530 - 6 o'clock.
Dress urban.
I think it's great that something like this can still happen in the UK.
People like to drink, they like to take drugs. Some young people will want to fight. That's been pretty much the human experience for thousands of years.
Seems now some people want a sanitised version of life.
If you do t think it's for you..don't go.
As for the people that live there and complain about if...maybe go away for a few days?
I have friends that live near Hampton Court Palace. They go away when the flower show is on as it can take hours to get to their house, people park in their drive and leave a note saying sorry (seriously). Instead of frothing at the mouth -they just go and stay elsewhere.
So a few people get stabbed, at NHF not Hampton Court Flower show, well some people drowned in the sea last week; ban the seaside? How many drown angling each year, or get knocked off bikes when cycling?
The chances of you getting into bother at NHC is a lot less than the chances of a car accident on the way home I would expect.
+1
AC43 said:
The veiled racism in the previous threads just made me thing of Brexit voters.
Step AWAY from The GuardianYou appear to have a rather simplified view of politics. I wonder if you think all Labour voters are cloth-capped factory workers, all Conservatives are Eton-educated mill owners, and all Afro-Caribbean people are just like the ones in the Bacardi commercials.
Were you aware more than 17 million people voted for Brexit?
Most of them didn't feel it was an expression of racism to vote to secede from a feudal super-state.
Many of them were Asian. They weren't ALL White Supremacist Uber-Nazis.
Edited by audidoody on Tuesday 30th August 12:55
audidoody said:
AC43 said:
The veiled racism in the previous threads just made me thing of Brexit voters.
Step AWAY from The GuardianYou appear to have a rather simplified view of politics. I wonder if you think all Labour voters are cloth-capped factory workers, all Conservatives are Eton-educated mill owners, and all Afro-Caribbean people are just like the ones in the Bacardi commercials.
Were you aware more than 17 million people voted for Brexit?
Most of them didn't feel it was an expression of racism to vote to secede from a feudal super-state.
Many of them were Asian. They weren't ALL White Supremacist Uber-Nazis.
Edited by audidoody on Tuesday 30th August 12:55
But I'd rather people left Carnival alone thankyou.
And the banks please.
Some of us make money from the latter and spend it at the former.
In my case 20 times without being stabbed once.
Living in London at the moment feels like being under siege at times.
Edited by AC43 on Tuesday 30th August 13:34
craigjm said:
167 arrests at Glastonbury this year. In terms of visitors NHC is 11 times larger each day and dont forget everyone is searched going into Glastonbury.
I, for my sins, read a Daily Mail article about the carnival today. I'm not proud, but I clicked a Google result without thinking.Not having had enough vitriol, I ventured in the Comments section below, where I was greeted with hundreds of outraged "Cancel this menace" messages.
The funny thing - not one of the top 20 messages was from people who live in London or were directly affected in any way. Most of the messages, like this one...
Mastodon2 said:
What a disgrace, it's time they shut this "carnival" down.
were from people who live about as far away as it's possible to get from London. (the above posted lives in NE England!).Notting Hill Carnival has always been a fantastic day out (particularly if you go on the Sunday), and I've fond memories of spending warm summer afternoons dancing to music I couldn't understand, drinking Red Stripe and generally having a great time.
Yes, there is an undesirable element - but you will always get this kind of thing with any large event (see Glastonbury example above). We've even had deaths at the likes of Glastonbury and Creamfields in recent years! However, they are so few in number relative to overall attendance, that they are easily avoided.
Away from the Daily Mail sensationalism, NHC is incredibly safe. 1m+ people will always attract a small minority of bad eggs, but it's hard to see how the above figures (in context of total attendance) should lead to such frenzied calls for cancellation. In fact, if it hadn't been in the Daily Mail, I'd imagine most of middle (and NE) England wouldn't have had a clue it was happening.
It's an important part of London's rich heritage, and I for one would be vehemently opposed to cancelling it because a few people from the Midlands are offended.
C70R said:
craigjm said:
167 arrests at Glastonbury this year. In terms of visitors NHC is 11 times larger each day and dont forget everyone is searched going into Glastonbury.
I, for my sins, read a Daily Mail article about the carnival today. I'm not proud, but I clicked a Google result without thinking.Not having had enough vitriol, I ventured in the Comments section below, where I was greeted with hundreds of outraged "Cancel this menace" messages.
The funny thing - not one of the top 20 messages was from people who live in London or were directly affected in any way. Most of the messages, like this one...
Mastodon2 said:
What a disgrace, it's time they shut this "carnival" down.
were from people who live about as far away as it's possible to get from London. (the above posted lives in NE England!).Notting Hill Carnival has always been a fantastic day out (particularly if you go on the Sunday), and I've fond memories of spending warm summer afternoons dancing to music I couldn't understand, drinking Red Stripe and generally having a great time.
Yes, there is an undesirable element - but you will always get this kind of thing with any large event (see Glastonbury example above). We've even had deaths at the likes of Glastonbury and Creamfields in recent years! However, they are so few in number relative to overall attendance, that they are easily avoided.
Away from the Daily Mail sensationalism, NHC is incredibly safe. 1m+ people will always attract a small minority of bad eggs, but it's hard to see how the above figures (in context of total attendance) should lead to such frenzied calls for cancellation. In fact, if it hadn't been in the Daily Mail, I'd imagine most of middle (and NE) England wouldn't have had a clue it was happening.
It's an important part of London's rich heritage, and I for one would be vehemently opposed to cancelling it because a few people from the Midlands are offended.
Elroy Blue said:
Easy to say when you're not the one trying to contain the violence and living in the six foot bubble around you.
Agreed.A friend and another friend's wife both worked NHC (assume you're BiB) this year and last. Both came back having had a great day last year, being offered (and turning down) plenty of food and drinks, and posing for photos with merry carnival-goers. The police do a storming job at the Carnival, under significant pressure from the sheer volume of people and amount of distraction. But let's not make it out to be some kind of constant running battle - that's the Daily Mail's job.
They both made arrests, but seemed to come away with a generally positive impression. In fact, the friend said it was easier than a Saturday night on his local patch. Perhaps we should ban those too...
C70R said:
Elroy Blue said:
Easy to say when you're not the one trying to contain the violence and living in the six foot bubble around you.
Agreed.A friend and another friend's wife both worked NHC (assume you're BiB) this year and last. Both came back having had a great day last year, being offered (and turning down) plenty of food and drinks, and posing for photos with merry carnival-goers. The police do a storming job at the Carnival, under significant pressure from the sheer volume of people and amount of distraction. But let's not make it out to be some kind of constant running battle - that's the Daily Mail's job.
They both made arrests, but seemed to come away with a generally positive impression. In fact, the friend said it was easier than a Saturday night on his local patch. Perhaps we should ban those too...
craigjm said:
Exactly this. I have many friends who are of various rank in the Met and a fair few of them were there this weekend. Anyone in that position has chosen to be in that job so they know the risks (and many of my friends actually enjoy it when it kicks off). It isn't perfect (they could improve the litter collection throughout the carnival for a start but its also not the lawless horror that people make it out to be.
Reassuring to hear that various ranks in the Met enjoy a good fight. 
R8Steve said:
craigjm said:
Exactly this. I have many friends who are of various rank in the Met and a fair few of them were there this weekend. Anyone in that position has chosen to be in that job so they know the risks (and many of my friends actually enjoy it when it kicks off). It isn't perfect (they could improve the litter collection throughout the carnival for a start but its also not the lawless horror that people make it out to be.
Reassuring to hear that various ranks in the Met enjoy a good fight. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff