Penge police pursuit deaths
Discussion
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-372344...
Horrible ...
Horrible ...
bbc said:
Two people have died after a car which was being chased by police crashed into pedestrians in south-east London.
The car was being pursued along Lennard Road in Penge when it hit a family walking along the pavement at about 14:05 BST, witnesses said.
Ambulance crews and the air ambulance attended but the two pedestrians were pronounced dead at the scene.
The driver of the car has been arrested and is in custody at a south London police station.
The witness said the black car was being chased by two police BMWs when the driver "lost control and ploughed into a family".
"People were trying to lift a car off a little girl", the man said.
Police have not confirmed if anybody else was hurt in the crash.
ETAThe car was being pursued along Lennard Road in Penge when it hit a family walking along the pavement at about 14:05 BST, witnesses said.
Ambulance crews and the air ambulance attended but the two pedestrians were pronounced dead at the scene.
The driver of the car has been arrested and is in custody at a south London police station.
The witness said the black car was being chased by two police BMWs when the driver "lost control and ploughed into a family".
"People were trying to lift a car off a little girl", the man said.
Police have not confirmed if anybody else was hurt in the crash.
bbc said:
The car was being chased because it had been reported stolen.
The best pursuit is one that doesn't start (preemptive moves etc). Unfortunately, when they do things like this occasionally occur.
It's worth reflecting that you go to work trying to do good, and something like this happens whereby you'll be under investigation for a good length of time (after the inquest, the criminal matters for the driver, the IPCC, any appeals by the families and so on).
It's worth reflecting that you go to work trying to do good, and something like this happens whereby you'll be under investigation for a good length of time (after the inquest, the criminal matters for the driver, the IPCC, any appeals by the families and so on).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-372344...
I hope they lock the driver up and throw away the key ,
More likely a community order
I hope they lock the driver up and throw away the key ,
More likely a community order
More details here: http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/news/14714874.W...
A point I have heard made on many occasions from a friend who is an ex copper - "What the f
k are the police doing chasing stolen cars? It's a stolen car FFS; the potential consequences (a massive and horrific accident like this) are simply not worth the potential benefit (the recovery of a car and apprehension of the thief)".
If it was indeed a stolen car, that is.
k are the police doing chasing stolen cars? It's a stolen car FFS; the potential consequences (a massive and horrific accident like this) are simply not worth the potential benefit (the recovery of a car and apprehension of the thief)".If it was indeed a stolen car, that is.
FunkyChucker said:
The Mail are reporting this as a possible child abduction.
If this is true, I can understand why a chase would be necessary and fully support it even with the tragic outcome. If it was just a stolen car, then there is absolutely no excuse for chasing it in a built up area regardless of what the pursuit policy may say.
If it was just a stolen car then why chase in a built up area?
The police drivers will be trained but the scrotes won't so are more likely to crash so why chase in any circumstances?
Follow by CCTV, helicopter etc.
I understand that the chase will have been authorised by a senior officers.
My thoughts are with the family of the two dead and also with the police involved in the chase.
The police drivers will be trained but the scrotes won't so are more likely to crash so why chase in any circumstances?
Follow by CCTV, helicopter etc.
I understand that the chase will have been authorised by a senior officers.
My thoughts are with the family of the two dead and also with the police involved in the chase.
Years under investigation and threat by the IPCC. The IPCC were caught AGAIN this week withholding evidence that supported Officer's accounts. An organisation totally unfit for purpose.
I also see the clairvoyant, hindsight brigade are out already. Officers are already refusing to carry firearms, handing in Tasers and there is active discussion regarding the protection we have following pursuits.
There comes a point when the public have to look at the constant vilification of the Police by the media and Politicians and decide what they want.
I also see the clairvoyant, hindsight brigade are out already. Officers are already refusing to carry firearms, handing in Tasers and there is active discussion regarding the protection we have following pursuits.
There comes a point when the public have to look at the constant vilification of the Police by the media and Politicians and decide what they want.
speedyguy said:
dondadda said:
If it was just a stolen car, then there is absolutely no excuse for chasing stealing it
Hope that helps you understand 
If there are no aggravating factors - eg the cars fleeing from a serious crime scene, then these chases in busy built up areas cant be justified as there are just too many risks to the public - as evidenced today. Stolen markers on PNC cant always be relied on. Stolen markers cover a multitude of sins- wife reports husbands car stolen because hes taken it but she paid for it, cars on finance sold without the authority of the finance company. ownership disputes - theyre not always straightforward simple thefts and certainly many wouldnt warrant a high speed pursuit. Ive had markers removed this week after cars have been recovered by the owner -often weeks ago - and the marker hadnt been removed. Current cops can disagree all they like-but theyll be the ones in the mire when their next pursuit goes wrong
Edited by Bigends on Wednesday 31st August 18:53
Edited by Bigends on Wednesday 31st August 18:56
I thought there were national - England/Wales - guidelines for authorising officers in pursuits. If so then this is unlikely to be a simple lost or stolen however it is reported.
Even in 2000, my force were very strict with regards pursuits and a simple LoS was a no-no. Further, it might not be a pursuit as such.
I know of a case that was reported in the press as a pursuit, not to mention treated as a pursuit by the IPCC, where the pursuing vehicle signaled a vehicle to stop, and when it accelerated away the police vehicle remained stationary. I other words it did not move. The unit was still arranging officers to a couple of points to check its progress when the vehicle overturned killing one of the occupants. If there had been no death, or serious injury, I'm sure the IPCC would not have felt the need to class the incident as a pursuit.
If, and it is a big if, if there was indeed a pursuit, and it was just for a LoS then the officers have some difficult questions to answer. If it wasn't then I am certain the press will clarify their error at a later date.
Even in 2000, my force were very strict with regards pursuits and a simple LoS was a no-no. Further, it might not be a pursuit as such.
I know of a case that was reported in the press as a pursuit, not to mention treated as a pursuit by the IPCC, where the pursuing vehicle signaled a vehicle to stop, and when it accelerated away the police vehicle remained stationary. I other words it did not move. The unit was still arranging officers to a couple of points to check its progress when the vehicle overturned killing one of the occupants. If there had been no death, or serious injury, I'm sure the IPCC would not have felt the need to class the incident as a pursuit.
If, and it is a big if, if there was indeed a pursuit, and it was just for a LoS then the officers have some difficult questions to answer. If it wasn't then I am certain the press will clarify their error at a later date.
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