The moon doesn't cause ocean tides, claims UKIP MP Carswell
Discussion
Sun and Moon....
"The theoretical amplitude of oceanic tides caused by the moon is about 54 centimetres (21 in) at the highest point, which corresponds to the amplitude that would be reached if the ocean possessed a uniform depth, there were no landmasses, and the Earth were rotating in step with the moon's orbit. The sun similarly causes tides, of which the theoretical amplitude is about 25 centimetres (9.8 in) (46% of that of the moon) with a cycle time of 12 hours. At spring tide the two effects add to each other to a theoretical level of 79 centimetres (31 in), while at neap tide the theoretical level is reduced to 29 centimetres (11 in). Since the orbits of the Earth about the sun, and the moon about the Earth, are elliptical, tidal amplitudes change somewhat as a result of the varying Earth–sun and Earth–moon distances. This causes a variation in the tidal force and theoretical amplitude of about ±18% for the moon and ±5% for the sun. If both the sun and moon were at their closest positions and aligned at new moon, the theoretical amplitude would reach 93 centimetres (37 in)."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tide
"The theoretical amplitude of oceanic tides caused by the moon is about 54 centimetres (21 in) at the highest point, which corresponds to the amplitude that would be reached if the ocean possessed a uniform depth, there were no landmasses, and the Earth were rotating in step with the moon's orbit. The sun similarly causes tides, of which the theoretical amplitude is about 25 centimetres (9.8 in) (46% of that of the moon) with a cycle time of 12 hours. At spring tide the two effects add to each other to a theoretical level of 79 centimetres (31 in), while at neap tide the theoretical level is reduced to 29 centimetres (11 in). Since the orbits of the Earth about the sun, and the moon about the Earth, are elliptical, tidal amplitudes change somewhat as a result of the varying Earth–sun and Earth–moon distances. This causes a variation in the tidal force and theoretical amplitude of about ±18% for the moon and ±5% for the sun. If both the sun and moon were at their closest positions and aligned at new moon, the theoretical amplitude would reach 93 centimetres (37 in)."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tide
Edited by steveT350C on Tuesday 20th September 20:47
Pesty said:
don4l said:
In what way do you think that the moon causes the tides?
Gravity? The moon seems to suck the water on the side of the planet that the moon is facing.
How do you explain the fact that the moon appears to push away the water on the other side? Gravity doesn't do that!
don4l said:
If it was simply gravity, then how do you explain the "bulge" on the opposite side of the planet?
The moon seems to suck the water on the side of the planet that the moon is facing.
How do you explain the fact that the moon appears to push away the water on the other side? Gravity doesn't do that!
It's inertia.The moon seems to suck the water on the side of the planet that the moon is facing.
How do you explain the fact that the moon appears to push away the water on the other side? Gravity doesn't do that!
Q: Why are there high tides on opposite sides of the planet?
A: You are ok with the idea that the moon is trying to pull the water away from the planets surface that is closest to it right? Now imagine that it is also trying to pull the planet away from the water on the far side at the same time.
A: You are ok with the idea that the moon is trying to pull the water away from the planets surface that is closest to it right? Now imagine that it is also trying to pull the planet away from the water on the far side at the same time.
nammynake said:
I notice the Independent article has slipped in a video of climate expert Brian Cox presenting evidence of man-made climate change. Presumably to plant the notion that challenging the evidence for climate change is as ridiculous tides being caused by the Sun.
So climate change causes tides.....where do I send money to prevent irreversible climate tide destruction? 
don4l said:
rohrl said:
don4l said:
Oh... this is a contentious subject.
If it was simply the gratitational effect of the moon, then high tides would only occur on the side facing the moon.
The Earth and moon orbit as a bound pair. The centre of rotation is beneath the Earth's surface. The resulting wobble means that centrifugal forces chuck the water out on both sides.
It really isn't a contentious subject at all. It has been well understood for hundreds of years. The moon causes the tides and the interaction of the sun's gravitational attraction is what causes neap tides at quadrature and spring tides at syzygy.If it was simply the gratitational effect of the moon, then high tides would only occur on the side facing the moon.
The Earth and moon orbit as a bound pair. The centre of rotation is beneath the Earth's surface. The resulting wobble means that centrifugal forces chuck the water out on both sides.
slybynight said:
Q: Why are there high tides on opposite sides of the planet?
A: You are ok with the idea that the moon is trying to pull the water away from the planets surface that is closest to it right? Now imagine that it is also trying to pull the planet away from the water on the far side at the same time.
Correct.A: You are ok with the idea that the moon is trying to pull the water away from the planets surface that is closest to it right? Now imagine that it is also trying to pull the planet away from the water on the far side at the same time.
slybynight said:
Q: Why are there high tides on opposite sides of the planet?
A: You are ok with the idea that the moon is trying to pull the water away from the planets surface that is closest to it right? Now imagine that it is also trying to pull the planet away from the water on the far side at the same time.
But the sun is around 6x bigger than the moon so surely Carswell must be right.A: You are ok with the idea that the moon is trying to pull the water away from the planets surface that is closest to it right? Now imagine that it is also trying to pull the planet away from the water on the far side at the same time.
chow pan toon said:
slybynight said:
Q: Why are there high tides on opposite sides of the planet?
A: You are ok with the idea that the moon is trying to pull the water away from the planets surface that is closest to it right? Now imagine that it is also trying to pull the planet away from the water on the far side at the same time.
But the sun is around 6x bigger than the moon so surely Carswell must be right.A: You are ok with the idea that the moon is trying to pull the water away from the planets surface that is closest to it right? Now imagine that it is also trying to pull the planet away from the water on the far side at the same time.
It's like Carl Sagan just walked into the thread. Astounding.
FN2TypeR said:
I may be due a parrot here, but the suns diameter is roughly 400 times that on the moon.
About right. It is also around 400 times further away which is why the solar eclipse does what it does. Gravity is an inverse square law so effect is quartered as distance doubles. As the sun is much larger than the moon but massively further away the gravitation effect is reduced so the moon can pull the tides but the sun has a marginal effect. s2art said:
slybynight said:
Q: Why are there high tides on opposite sides of the planet?
A: You are ok with the idea that the moon is trying to pull the water away from the planets surface that is closest to it right? Now imagine that it is also trying to pull the planet away from the water on the far side at the same time.
Correct.A: You are ok with the idea that the moon is trying to pull the water away from the planets surface that is closest to it right? Now imagine that it is also trying to pull the planet away from the water on the far side at the same time.
don4l said:
rohrl said:
don4l said:
Oh... this is a contentious subject.
If it was simply the gratitational effect of the moon, then high tides would only occur on the side facing the moon.
The Earth and moon orbit as a bound pair. The centre of rotation is beneath the Earth's surface. The resulting wobble means that centrifugal forces chuck the water out on both sides.
It really isn't a contentious subject at all. It has been well understood for hundreds of years. The moon causes the tides and the interaction of the sun's gravitational attraction is what causes neap tides at quadrature and spring tides at syzygy.If it was simply the gratitational effect of the moon, then high tides would only occur on the side facing the moon.
The Earth and moon orbit as a bound pair. The centre of rotation is beneath the Earth's surface. The resulting wobble means that centrifugal forces chuck the water out on both sides.
Well done for playing though. Better luck next time.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff