The moon doesn't cause ocean tides, claims UKIP MP Carswell
Discussion
don4l said:
Oh... this is a contentious subject.
If it was simply the gratitational effect of the moon, then high tides would only occur on the side facing the moon.
The Earth and moon orbit as a bound pair. The centre of rotation is beneath the Earth's surface. The resulting wobble means that centrifugal forces chuck the water out on both sides.
It's never good when your version of reality requires a fictitious force. If it was simply the gratitational effect of the moon, then high tides would only occur on the side facing the moon.
The Earth and moon orbit as a bound pair. The centre of rotation is beneath the Earth's surface. The resulting wobble means that centrifugal forces chuck the water out on both sides.
Starfighter said:
About right. It is also around 400 times further away which is why the solar eclipse does what it does. Gravity is an inverse square law so effect is quartered as distance doubles. As the sun is much larger than the moon but massively further away the gravitation effect is reduced so the moon can pull the tides but the sun has a marginal effect.
What about density/mass?Isn't the sun vastly more sense than the moon?
Welshbeef said:
Starfighter said:
About right. It is also around 400 times further away which is why the solar eclipse does what it does. Gravity is an inverse square law so effect is quartered as distance doubles. As the sun is much larger than the moon but massively further away the gravitation effect is reduced so the moon can pull the tides but the sun has a marginal effect.
What about density/mass?Isn't the sun vastly more sense than the moon?
Welshbeef said:
Starfighter said:
About right. It is also around 400 times further away which is why the solar eclipse does what it does. Gravity is an inverse square law so effect is quartered as distance doubles. As the sun is much larger than the moon but massively further away the gravitation effect is reduced so the moon can pull the tides but the sun has a marginal effect.
What about density/mass?Isn't the sun vastly more sense than the moon?
...and as a result of this thread, a lot of our gravitational models may have to be revised, given that a number of contributors appear to be the most dense objects yet discovered this side of the Oort Cloud, and probably for about 250 light years beyond.
Welshbeef said:
Starfighter said:
About right. It is also around 400 times further away which is why the solar eclipse does what it does. Gravity is an inverse square law so effect is quartered as distance doubles. As the sun is much larger than the moon but massively further away the gravitation effect is reduced so the moon can pull the tides but the sun has a marginal effect.
What about density/mass?Isn't the sun vastly more sense than the moon?
chow pan toon said:
Welshbeef said:
Starfighter said:
About right. It is also around 400 times further away which is why the solar eclipse does what it does. Gravity is an inverse square law so effect is quartered as distance doubles. As the sun is much larger than the moon but massively further away the gravitation effect is reduced so the moon can pull the tides but the sun has a marginal effect.
What about density/mass?Isn't the sun vastly more sense than the moon?
Big fker.
steveT350C said:
Sun and Moon....
"The theoretical amplitude of oceanic tides caused by the moon is about 54 centimetres (21 in) at the highest point, which corresponds to the amplitude that would be reached if the ocean possessed a uniform depth, there were no landmasses, and the Earth were rotating in step with the moon's orbit. The sun similarly causes tides, of which the theoretical amplitude is about 25 centimetres (9.8 in) (46% of that of the moon) with a cycle time of 12 hours. At spring tide the two effects add to each other to a theoretical level of 79 centimetres (31 in), while at neap tide the theoretical level is reduced to 29 centimetres (11 in). Since the orbits of the Earth about the sun, and the moon about the Earth, are elliptical, tidal amplitudes change somewhat as a result of the varying Earth–sun and Earth–moon distances. This causes a variation in the tidal force and theoretical amplitude of about ±18% for the moon and ±5% for the sun. If both the sun and moon were at their closest positions and aligned at new moon, the theoretical amplitude would reach 93 centimetres (37 in)."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tide
Shhh! Don't let the facts spoil a good argument."The theoretical amplitude of oceanic tides caused by the moon is about 54 centimetres (21 in) at the highest point, which corresponds to the amplitude that would be reached if the ocean possessed a uniform depth, there were no landmasses, and the Earth were rotating in step with the moon's orbit. The sun similarly causes tides, of which the theoretical amplitude is about 25 centimetres (9.8 in) (46% of that of the moon) with a cycle time of 12 hours. At spring tide the two effects add to each other to a theoretical level of 79 centimetres (31 in), while at neap tide the theoretical level is reduced to 29 centimetres (11 in). Since the orbits of the Earth about the sun, and the moon about the Earth, are elliptical, tidal amplitudes change somewhat as a result of the varying Earth–sun and Earth–moon distances. This causes a variation in the tidal force and theoretical amplitude of about ±18% for the moon and ±5% for the sun. If both the sun and moon were at their closest positions and aligned at new moon, the theoretical amplitude would reach 93 centimetres (37 in)."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tide
Edited by steveT350C on Tuesday 20th September 20:47
don4l said:
If it was simply gravity, then how do you explain the "bulge" on the opposite side of the planet?
The moon seems to suck the water on the side of the planet that the moon is facing.
How do you explain the fact that the moon appears to push away the water on the other side? Gravity doesn't do that!
Tidal effects pull on ALL of the earth, i.e. the whole planet, not just the oceans. Also, the side of the earth directly opposite the moon is elongated to a larger extent on the side facing towards the moon than the side facing away from the moon. Therefore the earth is stretched into an elipsoid shape i.e. it has two bulges - one on the face towards the moon and one on the face away from the moon.The moon seems to suck the water on the side of the planet that the moon is facing.
How do you explain the fact that the moon appears to push away the water on the other side? Gravity doesn't do that!
The earth rotates on its axis once every 24 hours. It obviously carries its oceans with it as it rotates. Therefore, the earth rotates through these two bulges twice every 24 hours. When the oceans pass through these bulges, we experience two high tides - which are most noticeable along the coast.
Local geographical factors and the direction of flow of ocean currents cause variations in the height of these tides so they don't all happen exactly at the same time.
Because the moon orbits the earth every 28 days or so, its position changes from day to day. This causes the timings of the two high tides to change every day as the tidal bulges "follow" the moon as it orbits the earth.
Duncan Carswell is obviously a fool.
The terrifying thing is that such ignorance is hardly unique to him. Not knowing of or misunderstanding the inverse square law is worrying. We have climate change deniers in parliament, and in places of particular authority. We have MPs who not only support homeopathy but believe the rubbish as well. Look across the pond to be really terrified. There are mormons, creationists and other idiots who seem proud of their ignorance.
It's a scary place, this world.
It's a scary place, this world.
Derek Smith said:
The terrifying thing is that such ignorance is hardly unique to him. Not knowing of or misunderstanding the inverse square law is worrying. We have climate change deniers in parliament, and in places of particular authority. We have MPs who not only support homeopathy but believe the rubbish as well. Look across the pond to be really terrified. There are mormons, creationists and other idiots who seem proud of their ignorance.
It's a scary place, this world.
I blame the internet, the democratisation of knowledge has been an bloody disaster for the type of folks who used to run the show on nothing but bluster, slick hair styles and family ties.It's a scary place, this world.
When you have politicians both sides of the atlantic declaring that 2people have had enough of experts" you know civilisation has jumped the shark.
The robot overlords can not come soon enough in my opinion.
FredClogs said:
When you have politicians both sides of the atlantic declaring that "people have had enough of experts" you know civilisation has jumped the shark.
I didn't read this but was told it by a friend. I don't like Gove, but he's no fool and I said that he'd been misquoted.It is terrible that I was wrong. He meant what he said.
Explains a lot about him though.
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