Prince William: 'We must do more on illegal ivory trade'

[AJL308]

Colonial said:

I'm still not sure how hunting animals for ivory is going to save them while stopping hunting will mean they will become extinct.

Because if the dirt poor locals see more profit in properly managed hunting than they do in uncontrolled poaching then they won't poach them.

[Matthen]

Halb said:

Matthen said:

Solution is simple; flood the market with synthesised ivory. As long as you can't tell the difference between fake and real, the price will plummet.

Is that possible?
If so, I'll start cranking up the 3d printer!

Yes its possible. The difficulty would be getting it into the supply chains without suspicion.

[durbster]

AJL308 said:

Colonial said:

I'm still not sure how hunting animals for ivory is going to save them while stopping hunting will mean they will become extinct.

Because if the dirt poor locals see more profit in properly managed hunting than they do in uncontrolled poaching then they won't poach them.

Of course, this is all the fault of those poor, greedy Africans.

And let's ignore the fact that Africans have lived side-by-side with these animals for tens of thousands of years and allowed them to thrive, despite being directly threatened by them.

[Colonial]

AJL308 said:

Because if the dirt poor locals see more profit in properly managed hunting than they do in uncontrolled poaching then they won't poach them.

Maybe harsher penalties for possessing ivory rather than just killing less of them would do more to avoid their extinction.

Killing the animals in a slower fashion seems a bit counter intuitive.

[Cotty]

AJL308 said:

Because if the dirt poor locals see more profit in properly managed hunting than they do in uncontrolled poaching then they won't poach them.

How about just removing the locals? Perhaps to the North Pole less animals for them to kill up there.

[Halb]

Cotty said:

How about just removing the locals? Perhaps to the North Pole less animals for them to kill up there.

It's about time we did something that those pesky polar bears!!

[Cotty]

Halb said:

It's about time we did something that those pesky polar bears!!

Like what? I have already suggested a feeding program.

[Halb]

Cotty said:

Halb said:

It's about time we did something that those pesky polar bears!!

Like what? I have already suggested a feeding program.

Do we feed them to PHers or feed PHers to them?...

[Cotty]

Halb said:

Do we feed them to PHers or feed PHers to them?...

No, feed the elephant poachers to the bears.

[AJL308]

durbster said:

AJL308 said:

Colonial said:

I'm still not sure how hunting animals for ivory is going to save them while stopping hunting will mean they will become extinct.

Because if the dirt poor locals see more profit in properly managed hunting than they do in uncontrolled poaching then they won't poach them.

Of course, this is all the fault of those poor, greedy Africans.

And let's ignore the fact that Africans have lived side-by-side with these animals for tens of thousands of years and allowed them to thrive, despite being directly threatened by them.

Then who is poaching them? It isn't Chinese business men who then personally chop off the tusks and other bits and ship them back to sell as medicine that doesn't work. It's the locals.

It's not about them being greedy? You are raising a straw argument that I didn't refer to. They are poor, they have very little wealth, if you offer an African $100 to kill and elephant and chop the tusks off or $150 now and again taking wealthy yanks for Germans out to shoot them then which one do you think he is going to like the best?

[AJL308]

Colonial said:

AJL308 said:

Because if the dirt poor locals see more profit in properly managed hunting than they do in uncontrolled poaching then they won't poach them.

Maybe harsher penalties for possessing ivory rather than just killing less of them would do more to avoid their extinction.

Killing the animals in a slower fashion seems a bit counter intuitive.

What is the current penalty in China? Does it need to be harsher and how many people are convicted each year for possessing, selling and importing it?

Many countries execute drug dealers which we all know has done brilliantly do eradicate drug smuggling in those places.

Your final sentence shows that you are, yet another person, who isn't reading what has been written - or failing to understand it. It's not about a slower progression towards extinction. It's about a managed[/] and [i]sustainable system of hunting being put in place.

Look, I have no desire to hunt Elephants. However, if allowing people to hunt them allows them to not become extinct then what is the problem with it? The problem is clearly that the majority of those against are against for ideological reasons - they object to the particular animal being killed for whatever reasons. Even if it could be proved beyond doubt that it would work then lots and lots of people would still be against it and would accept them being made extinct as long as Westerners didn't get them to kill them for fun.

[Derek Smith]

Matthen said:

Halb said:

Matthen said:

Solution is simple; flood the market with synthesised ivory. As long as you can't tell the difference between fake and real, the price will plummet.

Is that possible?
If so, I'll start cranking up the 3d printer!

Yes its possible. The difficulty would be getting it into the supply chains without suspicion.

It would not be that difficult to get artificial material into the chain. Most are in the trade for the money, and very little money for most. Pay them a bit more.

They have already shown that they are happy to be criminals, so they'd be easy to convince.

It is a rather obvious ploy and, as is probably already going on as far as rino horn is concerned as once 'processed' it is almost impossible to tell it from hair of certain other animals. You can't tell me that the criminals haven't got a system going.

[AJL308]

Derek Smith said:

Matthen said:

Halb said:

Matthen said:

Solution is simple; flood the market with synthesised ivory. As long as you can't tell the difference between fake and real, the price will plummet.

Is that possible?
If so, I'll start cranking up the 3d printer!

Yes its possible. The difficulty would be getting it into the supply chains without suspicion.

It would not be that difficult to get artificial material into the chain. Most are in the trade for the money, and very little money for most. Pay them a bit more.

They have already shown that they are happy to be criminals, so they'd be easy to convince.

It is a rather obvious ploy and, as is probably already going on as far as rino horn is concerned as once 'processed' it is almost impossible to tell it from hair of certain other animals. You can't tell me that the criminals haven't got a system going.

I'm sure you are correct as far as Rhino horn but I don't see how it will work with Ivory. Ivory is made into ornaments and jewellery and stays largely intact so you could spot it much easier. You might end up pushing the price of real Ivory up even further which would have an opposite effect to that which you desired.

The Countries which seize poached Ivory continually miss the point when they have these huge bonfires of the stuff. Why not sell it and use the money to dissuade poaching? Making the big moral statement is more important though.