War on the motorist or media hype?
Discussion
I would say its more a game for them , I amagine them as beardy types who ramble at weekends ,
and think its funny to invent confusing junctions and put road markings down that are obviously desighed to cause the most road rage and confusion , along with unreasonable speed limits .....
s IMHO...
and think its funny to invent confusing junctions and put road markings down that are obviously desighed to cause the most road rage and confusion , along with unreasonable speed limits .....
s IMHO...schmunk said:
OP, have you considered the possibility of consistently driving within the law; parking within the rules...?
In ca. 15 years of driving I've had 0 points, 0 stops by the police and 1 parking ticket (about 10 years ago).
I do not feel 'at war'.
So you NEVER speed then? Never have?In ca. 15 years of driving I've had 0 points, 0 stops by the police and 1 parking ticket (about 10 years ago).
I do not feel 'at war'.
If not; you're either lying, or a hindrance dawdling way below the limit.
tannhauser said:
So you NEVER speed then? Never have?
If not; you're either lying, or a hindrance dawdling way below the limit.
To start with your final part, do you really think it impossible to drive AT the speed limit? If not; you're either lying, or a hindrance dawdling way below the limit.
To answer your question, yes I sometimes do speed however I am both considerate and observant (or perhaps you consider me scheming and devious, playing the system, oh my!), hence never being caught by camera or car...
schmunk said:
tannhauser said:
So you NEVER speed then? Never have?
If not; you're either lying, or a hindrance dawdling way below the limit.
To start with your final part, do you really think it impossible to drive AT the speed limit? If not; you're either lying, or a hindrance dawdling way below the limit.
To answer your question, yes I sometimes do speed however I am both considerate and observant (or perhaps you consider me scheming and devious, playing the system, oh my!), hence never being caught by camera or car...
TX.
schmunk said:
tannhauser said:
So you NEVER speed then? Never have?
If not; you're either lying, or a hindrance dawdling way below the limit.
If not; you're either lying, or a hindrance dawdling way below the limit.
schmunk said:
To start with your final part, do you really think it impossible to drive AT the speed limit?
Pretty much: impossible to 100% stick to the limit 100% of the time; especially with varying conditions within a given stretch of consistent limit. For example - say a 30mph arterial road that leaves a town centre, being typically busy and constricted; but then passes through wide open suburban areas which are still 30mph (but may have been originally 40mph) - difficult to stick to 30mph sometimes when the prevailing conditions and surroundings are not conducive. Or are your eyes constantly glued to the speedo? schmunk said:
To answer your question, yes I sometimes do speed however I am both considerate and observant (or perhaps you consider me scheming and devious, playing the system, oh my!), hence never being caught by camera or car...
Then in that case, I'd add a rather large element of luck to having not being caught. There but for the grace of God and all that...Terminator X said:
schmunk said:
tannhauser said:
So you NEVER speed then? Never have?
If not; you're either lying, or a hindrance dawdling way below the limit.
To start with your final part, do you really think it impossible to drive AT the speed limit? If not; you're either lying, or a hindrance dawdling way below the limit.
To answer your question, yes I sometimes do speed however I am both considerate and observant (or perhaps you consider me scheming and devious, playing the system, oh my!), hence never being caught by camera or car...
TX.
tannhauser said:
tannhauser said:
So you NEVER speed then? Never have?
If not; you're either lying, or a hindrance dawdling way below the limit.
If not; you're either lying, or a hindrance dawdling way below the limit.
schmunk said:
To start with your final part, do you really think it impossible to drive AT the speed limit?
Pretty much: impossible to 100% stick to the limit 100% of the time; especially with varying conditions within a given stretch of consistent limit. For example - say a 30mph arterial road that leaves a town centre, being typically busy and constricted; but then passes through wide open suburban areas which are still 30mph (but may have been originally 40mph) - difficult to stick to 30mph sometimes when the prevailing conditions and surroundings are not conducive. Or are your eyes constantly glued to the speedo? schmunk said:
To answer your question, yes I sometimes do speed however I am both considerate and observant (or perhaps you consider me scheming and devious, playing the system, oh my!), hence never being caught by camera or car...
Then in that case, I'd add a rather large element of luck to having not being caught. There but for the grace of God and all that...Edited by schmunk on Tuesday 27th September 17:21
schmunk said:
OP, have you considered the possibility of consistently driving within the law; parking within the rules...?
In ca. 15 years of driving I've had 0 points, 0 stops by the police and 1 parking ticket (about 10 years ago).
I do not feel 'at war'.
Nor do I - my point was that the media are talking up this war on the motorist, but there IS a host of organisations making money out of courses, which the media are NOT exposing, and is resulting in drivers being baited into taking courses instead of paying their fines... and other safety specific offences are going unaddressed.In ca. 15 years of driving I've had 0 points, 0 stops by the police and 1 parking ticket (about 10 years ago).
I do not feel 'at war'.
schmunk said:
tannhauser said:
tannhauser said:
So you NEVER speed then? Never have?
If not; you're either lying, or a hindrance dawdling way below the limit.
If not; you're either lying, or a hindrance dawdling way below the limit.
schmunk said:
To start with your final part, do you really think it impossible to drive AT the speed limit?
Pretty much: impossible to 100% stick to the limit 100% of the time; especially with varying conditions within a given stretch of consistent limit. For example - say a 30mph arterial road that leaves a town centre, being typically busy and constricted; but then passes through wide open suburban areas which are still 30mph (but may have been originally 40mph) - difficult to stick to 30mph sometimes when the prevailing conditions and surroundings are not conducive. Or are your eyes constantly glued to the speedo? schmunk said:
To answer your question, yes I sometimes do speed however I am both considerate and observant (or perhaps you consider me scheming and devious, playing the system, oh my!), hence never being caught by camera or car...
Then in that case, I'd add a rather large element of luck to having not being caught. There but for the grace of God and all that...Edited by schmunk on Tuesday 27th September 17:21
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I don't think anyone said that. Simply that not getting caught isn't the same as getting caught and then blaming a "war on the motorist" is all.
My highlighting the phrase "war on the motorist" was in respect of the issue of the media talking up a war - and mention of a war leading to drivers responding by "fighting back" with revolving number plates to fool ANPR systems.I had forgotten of course the older practice of setting fire to speed cameras!
Mill Wheel said:
Nor do I - my point was that the media are talking up this war on the motorist, but there IS a host of organisations making money out of courses, which the media are NOT exposing, and is resulting in drivers being baited into taking courses instead of paying their fines... and other safety specific offences are going unaddressed.
What's the course fee? What's the alternative fine? Where do the funds go in each case?Is there really a conspiracy to push people away from simple fines into driver training? If so, is it really a bad thing?
schmunk said:
Is there really a conspiracy to push people away from simple fines into driver training? If so, is it really a bad thing?
"Speed Awareness Course" despite speed being a very low factor in accidents. "Crap Driving Awareness Course" would be an easier thing to stomach as crap driving is the biggest factor in accidents.
The two are not necessarily linked.
schmunk said:
Is there really a conspiracy to push people away from simple fines into driver training? If so, is it really a bad thing?
It's not - however there needs to be a holistic approach. I feel that the emphasis has been shifted massively towards things like speeding, despite it being implicated in 17% of fatal accidents and only 5% of all accidents (and that's before you remove other contributing factors like drink/drug driving, vehicle used as part of a crime etc - factors for which speed awareness, speed enforcement etc are unlikely to have any effect on). It also fails to take account of the constantly moving goalposts that are speed limit reductions. Reduce limits (especially unnecessarily or unrealistically low) and you are bound to implicate "speeding" in a greater proportion of accidents.
Other causal factors which make a greater contribution seem to have been largely ignored - the question is why? Is it the difficulty in enforcement - or the lack of revenue making opportunities. Speed is easy to measure and enforce and generate revenue. It's also easy to change the goalposts.
There is a big elephant in the room when it comes to road safety - pedestrians. In 2014, 20% of fatalities on the roads cite the pedestrian's actions as a major causal factor - yet we don't teach the highway code in school in any meaningful way, there seems to be very little investment in pedestrian education (certainly compared to when I was young - when there were frequent road safety adverts targeted at pedestrians).
How many pedestrians even know they are subject to the rules in the highway code and have actually read it. I bet most people only pick up a copy when they have to due to taking a driving test of some sort.
If we really want to reduce the casualty rate on the roads - pedestrian education and enforcement would go a long way. Perhaps we should have rules like they have in the states around jaywalking etc with on the spot fines.
Edited by Moonhawk on Tuesday 27th September 19:38
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I've driven over 20 years and have never had any points or endorsements.
It's media hype with some valid discussion points around certain policies.
I drove for 20 years without points and then I got done....on a local trip to get an ice cream....unless u just do a few small local routes you will get done eventually. I can guarantee you break the law when you drive through 20mph zonesIt's media hype with some valid discussion points around certain policies.
98elise said:
Name another activity where:
1. You are required to display a number so that you can be easily identified for punishment.
2. Fines are issued automatically.
3. Fines can be issued private companies or individuals.
3. You are required by law to incriminate yourself or others otherwise or you will punished anyway.
4. Punishments can be issued without any form of defense.
5. Local government income is dependent on catching you committing a crime.
They can't issue fines. They issue a 'charge'. Just ignore it, they go away ...eventually (can take a long time, but it's their money they are spending LOL).1. You are required to display a number so that you can be easily identified for punishment.
2. Fines are issued automatically.
3. Fines can be issued private companies or individuals.
3. You are required by law to incriminate yourself or others otherwise or you will punished anyway.
4. Punishments can be issued without any form of defense.
5. Local government income is dependent on catching you committing a crime.
Sadly, the intimidation is too much for most, and silly frightened buggers pay up. Fools!
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