Deutsche Bank - They think its all over.....
Discussion
sidicks said:
Crackie said:
?????
A point of view doesn't have to be justified or agreed with for you to have empathy with it.......
Empathy is a fairly broad term but one of the definitions is being able to discern what another person is thinking or feeling; irrespective of whether you agree with their point of view.
It's hard to have empathy with someone when their opinions are based on a lack of understanding which has already been explained to them on numerous ocassions.A point of view doesn't have to be justified or agreed with for you to have empathy with it.......
Empathy is a fairly broad term but one of the definitions is being able to discern what another person is thinking or feeling; irrespective of whether you agree with their point of view.
el stovey said:
sidicks said:
It's hard to have empathy with someone when their opinions are based on a lack of understanding which has already been explained to them on numerous ocassions.
Sidicks, you seem like a decent bloke, I know I called you a pompous empathyless robot but I regret that now and it was unfair. I think it would help If you showed your wife or girlfriend your posts as she/they/whoever might have more success than strangers on the internet n showing where you perhaps sound a bit prickly and unwilling to listen.2. I'm willing to share and listen to anyone who has a genuine interest. The person referred to above has shown a firm intent to do neither and simply disrupt the thread.
Crackie said:
sidicks said:
Harris_I said:
The first step is to have empathy with their point of view.
Only where that point of view is justified!A point of view doesn't have to be justified or agreed with for you to have empathy with it.......
Empathy is a fairly broad term but one of the definitions is being able to discern what another person is thinking or feeling; irrespective of whether you agree with their point of view.
Mrr T said:
limpsfield said:
Harris_I said:
If we truly took an objective look at what our industry does, a reasonable person might reach the conclusion - as Adair Turner, the former head of the FSA did - that much of what the industry does is "socially useless".
So when Fred rages against casino bankers, I think what he is really raging against is the disconnect that exists between what we might call the real economy and the financial economy.
I though Harris_I made some excellent points and am surprised by some of the nitpicking, although it does appear the PH way of late. I think for the layman, which is 9x% of the population, the words of Adair Turner above will ring true whether finance "insiders" believe it it or not. So when Fred rages against casino bankers, I think what he is really raging against is the disconnect that exists between what we might call the real economy and the financial economy.
As for the comments of Adair Turner. Can I suggest you look up his CV my question would be is Adair Turner socially useful. As for banks they get a bad press and some times that is justified. However, banks also do a lot of useful things but no one takes the time to explain. For example I commented above about how banks help corporates raise money via bond issues and then help the corporate swap the debt obligations from fixed rate to floating. This help corporations reduce costs and helps reduce the prices we pay for the goods those corporation sell. To me that is socially useful.
As for social usefulness he has a point but is that the same Adair Turner than ran the utterly useless on every level FSA?
For all that the city does wrong it does an awful lot right. The bottom line is this; if you run a company or pension fund or government anywhere in Asia, Africa, Europe, Central and Southern America and you need to raise capital, need security underwriting, M&A advice, secondary market access, brokerage, equity, bond, currency and derivative research and execution, then there's a bloody good chance you pick up the phone and dial +44. HMRC's cut of several tens of billions every year buys a hell of a lot more social usefulness than Adair Turner or the FSA ever delivered!
Alternatively one can think of the city as nothing more than a giant squid wrapped round the face of humanity if so inclined. Doesn't worry me. I'd just point out that it's your giant squid, that every other country wants and before you kill it off you might want to have a think about how you are going to replace its global revenues.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 29th September 16:01
fblm said:
+1 if I am one of the nitpickers I'll simply repeat my previous quote "There is a lot to complain about with regard to banking; lots of people in the banking system are making completely unwarranted profits from a massively bloated and exploitative financial system. But the wrongness here comes from the banking system’s ability to suck, squeeze and swindle assets from others; not from its simply conjuring these assets out of nothing." Conflating the issue of money creation, if it even is an issue, with others which certainly are, is a distraction.
As for social usefulness he has a point but is that the same Adair Turner than ran the utterly useless on every level FSA?
For all that the city does wrong it does an awful lot right. The bottom line is this; if you run a company or pension fund or government anywhere in Asia, Africa, Europe, Central and Southern America and you need to raise capital, need security underwriting, M&A advice, secondary market access, brokerage, equity, bond, currency and derivative research and execution, then there's a bloody good chance you pick up the phone and dial +44. HMRC's cut of several tens of billions every year buys a hell of a lot more social usefulness than Adair Turner or the FSA ever delivered!
Alternatively one can think of the city as nothing more than a giant squid wrapped round the face of humanity if so inclined. Doesn't worry me. I'd just point out that it's your giant squid, that every other country wants and before you kill it off you might want to have a think about how you are going to replace its global revenues.
For what it's worth, fblm, I don't think you're nitpicking. You and Mrr T both make worthy points and clearly demonstrate an insider's understanding.As for social usefulness he has a point but is that the same Adair Turner than ran the utterly useless on every level FSA?
For all that the city does wrong it does an awful lot right. The bottom line is this; if you run a company or pension fund or government anywhere in Asia, Africa, Europe, Central and Southern America and you need to raise capital, need security underwriting, M&A advice, secondary market access, brokerage, equity, bond, currency and derivative research and execution, then there's a bloody good chance you pick up the phone and dial +44. HMRC's cut of several tens of billions every year buys a hell of a lot more social usefulness than Adair Turner or the FSA ever delivered!
Alternatively one can think of the city as nothing more than a giant squid wrapped round the face of humanity if so inclined. Doesn't worry me. I'd just point out that it's your giant squid, that every other country wants and before you kill it off you might want to have a think about how you are going to replace its global revenues.
Edited by fblm on Thursday 29th September 16:01
Regarding Adair Turner, as it happens I'm rather a fan of his which you may have picked up on
. (I did however also mention Mervyn King and Martin Wolf and they can't all be completely useless!) Turner don't forget took charge at the FSA in September 2008 by which point all the damage had already been done. I don't agree with much of what he has said (or done) but I do think he is a clever man and worth listening to.Harris_I said:
Regarding Adair Turner, as it happens I'm rather a fan of his which you may have picked up on . (I did however also mention Mervyn King and Martin Wolf and they can't all be completely useless!)
I rather like Merv, specifically his barely concealed contempt for clueless politicians on the TSC. My only gripe is that by dumbing down 'money creation' with good intentions one inadvertently misleads almost everyone.. (I did however also mention Mervyn King and Martin Wolf and they can't all be completely useless!) Harris_I said:
Turner don't forget took charge at the FSA in September 2008...
Well I suppose that's a pretty good excuse. To be honest I thought he'd been there for years. Anyway iirc he's still An ardent supporter of a Tobin tax so I still think he's a plank.sidicks said:
People losing their jobs tends to be a crisis situation.
People getting paid in shares which become near worthless is also a significant crisis situation
Case in point. I lost my City job in February. And several years ago, was paid part of my bonus in Deutsche Bank shares which are now worth c. 10% of what they were when I was "paid". So far this tax year, I have contributed precisely zero tax revenue to the State after years of six figure tax payments.People getting paid in shares which become near worthless is also a significant crisis situation
Edited by sidicks on Thursday 29th September 12:52
Can I afford to take it on the chin? Yes, much more so than many, I am sure. But the money tree isn't endlessly renewing and getting another senior job in the City is very very difficult right now. Which is almost entirely due to the massive amount of regulation on banks hitting returns and therefore squeezing costs to the bone.
contango said:
Here we go..... DBK stock trading under €10.
I was expecting that next week with the markets closed for the German holiday on Monday, tonight's closing price will be significant.
€10 is not the be all and end all, line in the sand, a poor close will likely see discussion and possible action over the long w/e?
Personally, I still think there will be better opportunities to jump in if you must buy, it could get interesting quickly from here.
A huge amount of 9 puts bought yesterday afternoon on the sell off. Coco's through the Feb lows, gets interesting here for sure. I was expecting that next week with the markets closed for the German holiday on Monday, tonight's closing price will be significant.
€10 is not the be all and end all, line in the sand, a poor close will likely see discussion and possible action over the long w/e?
Personally, I still think there will be better opportunities to jump in if you must buy, it could get interesting quickly from here.
Well what I've learned from this thread is that if this bank does collapse and takes the German economy with it it certainly won't be the fault if the bankers or the banking system, it'll definitely be poor people's fault for not appreciating enough the genius and hard work your average banker/trader/corporate lawyer puts into the job.
FredClogs said:
Well what I've learned from this thread is that if this bank does collapse and takes the German economy with it it certainly won't be the fault if the bankers or the banking system, it'll definitely be poor people's fault for not appreciating enough the genius and hard work your average banker/trader/corporate lawyer puts into the job.
Oh please!
FredClogs said:
Well what I've learned from this thread is that if this bank does collapse and takes the German economy with it it certainly won't be the fault if the bankers or the banking system, it'll definitely be poor people's fault for not appreciating enough the genius and hard work your average banker/trader/corporate lawyer puts into the job.
Strawman nonsense.As expected.
FredClogs said:
Well what I've learned from this thread is that if this bank does collapse and takes the German economy with it it certainly won't be the fault if the bankers or the banking system, it'll definitely be poor people's fault for not appreciating enough the genius and hard work your average banker/trader/corporate lawyer puts into the job.
I made a reasonable effort to emphathise with your point of view - and am supportive of massive reforms - but if you want to blame someone, you'll need to blame everyone. If we the general public didn't vote in idiot politicians who promise to turn our houses into ATM machines, we wouldn't have economic policies and poor regulatory regimes that can only lead to boom and bust cycles.Whoozit said:
sidicks said:
People losing their jobs tends to be a crisis situation.
People getting paid in shares which become near worthless is also a significant crisis situation
Case in point. I lost my City job in February. And several years ago, was paid part of my bonus in Deutsche Bank shares which are now worth c. 10% of what they were when I was "paid". So far this tax year, I have contributed precisely zero tax revenue to the State after years of six figure tax payments.People getting paid in shares which become near worthless is also a significant crisis situation
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 29th September 12:52
Can I afford to take it on the chin? Yes, much more so than many, I am sure. But the money tree isn't endlessly renewing and getting another senior job in the City is very very difficult right now. Which is almost entirely due to the massive amount of regulation on banks hitting returns and therefore squeezing costs to the bone.
So? I'm really struggling to see your point.
Overpaid employee gets fired when unsustainable business model fails. Who'd have thought it?
REALIST123 said:
So? I'm really struggling to see your point.
Overpaid employee gets fired when unsustainable business model fails.
REALIST123 said:
Who'd have thought it?
You clearly missed the question to which he was responding.Soov535 said:
FredClogs said:
Well what I've learned from this thread is that if this bank does collapse and takes the German economy with it it certainly won't be the fault if the bankers or the banking system, it'll definitely be poor people's fault for not appreciating enough the genius and hard work your average banker/trader/corporate lawyer puts into the job.
Oh please!
i hope DB does fail. Didn't know it funded the building of Auschwitz but all is forgiven i guess. More recently it has been repeatedly fined for criminal conduct of its employees. They sold junk CDOs to clients knowing they were low grade, they manipulated Libor. They hid 12bn in losses on certain CDOs
The planks actually owned and operated a Casino in Vegas (say no more) and lost 2.5B in 3 years. A reckless and dangerous financial institution. And to the chap above moaning about banks regulation being the blame. Too f
king right they need regulation.
The planks actually owned and operated a Casino in Vegas (say no more) and lost 2.5B in 3 years. A reckless and dangerous financial institution. And to the chap above moaning about banks regulation being the blame. Too f
king right they need regulation.Burwood said:
i hope DB does fail. Didn't know it funded the building of Auschwitz but all is forgiven i guess. More recently it has been repeatedly fined for criminal conduct of its employees. They sold junk CDOs to clients knowing they were low grade,
Why did the clients buy these CDOs?Burwood said:
they manipulated Libor. They hid 12bn in losses on certain CDOs
The planks actually owned and operated a Casino in Vegas (say no more) and lost 2.5B in 3 years. A reckless and dangerous financial institution.
No excuses.The planks actually owned and operated a Casino in Vegas (say no more) and lost 2.5B in 3 years. A reckless and dangerous financial institution.
Burwood said:
And to the chap above moaning about banks regulation being the blame. Too fking right they need regulation.
I think you misunderstand the point being made - much of the additional regulation imposed since the GFC has added significant cost (passed to customers) with minimal benefits terms of risk management.king right they need regulation.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff