Deutsche Bank - They think its all over.....
Discussion
Sid, clients buy things all the time after advice from their 'bankers'. I can only assume they purchased the CDOs thinking they were priced fairly. In reality they weren't due to the underlying being junk. DB knew this because it's a fact that one team was selling them and another was shorting them and selling protection. Something the bank knew all about and approved of. And it wasn't some random lowly trader. The guy implementing this was the Global Head of CDOs. I'm sure you've seen 'The Big Short'. Goslings character is none other than Gregory Lippman who was DB head, even though the movie made him out to be the guy laughed at by traders, he was the boss. Hr made 60M bonus that year
DB was one of the biggest packagers/sellers of CDOs. 30-40B. They made a killing. And here is the left arm of DB selling CDS and talking down the quality of CDOs. A complete conflict of interest.
I'm sure it goes on but as I said earlier, I've never seen such sociopathic behaviour at any other bank. It's almost nurtured at DB.
DB was one of the biggest packagers/sellers of CDOs. 30-40B. They made a killing. And here is the left arm of DB selling CDS and talking down the quality of CDOs. A complete conflict of interest.
I'm sure it goes on but as I said earlier, I've never seen such sociopathic behaviour at any other bank. It's almost nurtured at DB.
jsf said:
Lets say DB does get a bail out by the German Government and they become shareholders, in a similar way to how the UK government took a holding in RBS .
What material difference will that make to anyone?
If you own the stock-you have zip. If you are a bystander, then nothing. If you are a German taxpayer, you will moan that you own DB but still can't get a free bank accountWhat material difference will that make to anyone?
Murcielago_Boy said:
Soov535 said:
Be craful what you wish for. I wish you luck in the absolute sh*tstorm which would ensue. I hope you have a safety net.
Or will it just be the shareholders who lose their investment?
Why, if the German Government bail out DB, would there be a s
t storm for anyone other than the shareholders?When Leman went down, the s
t hit the fan because at that time we didn't know governments would bail out the markets. That's not the same situation now is it?jsf said:
Is that what would happen though?
Or will it just be the shareholders who lose their investment?
Why, if the German Government bail out DB, would there be a st storm for anyone other than the shareholders?
When Leman went down, the st hit the fan because at that time we didn't know governments would bail out the markets. That's not the same situation now is it?
Two words **in the event of no bail out**: SYSTEMIC RISK.Or will it just be the shareholders who lose their investment?
Why, if the German Government bail out DB, would there be a s
t storm for anyone other than the shareholders?When Leman went down, the s
t hit the fan because at that time we didn't know governments would bail out the markets. That's not the same situation now is it?And I tell you, this would be F**KING bad.
And it's fair to say, that even if DB is bailed out, then the rest of the banking industry would be under scrutiny/attack.
jsf said:
Why, if the German Government bail out DB, would there be a st storm for anyone other than the shareholders?
Germans have again said there will be no bailout.t storm for anyone other than the shareholders?https://espresso.economist.com/e0ae4561193dbf6e4cf...
You can't tell Italy they can't bail out their banks and do it yourself.
Strap in.
Sheets Tabuer said:
Germans have again said there will be no bailout.
https://espresso.economist.com/e0ae4561193dbf6e4cf...
You can't tell Italy they can't bail out their banks and do it yourself.
Strap in.
Ah 5h1t. https://espresso.economist.com/e0ae4561193dbf6e4cf...
You can't tell Italy they can't bail out their banks and do it yourself.
Strap in.
So now everyone with exposure to GERMANY'S LARGEST BANK is at risk... not many people then.
Murcielago_Boy said:
Burwood said:
My call is the DOJ will fine them into insolvency. And interestingly insiders think this is most likely as well 
Are they quite so harsh on their own US institutions?
Murcielago_Boy said:
Two words **in the event of no bail out**: SYSTEMIC RISK.
And I tell you, this would be F**KING bad.
And it's fair to say, that even if DB is bailed out, then the rest of the banking industry would be under scrutiny/attack.
The rest of the banking industry has been under scrutiny since 2008, so nothing changes there.And I tell you, this would be F**KING bad.
And it's fair to say, that even if DB is bailed out, then the rest of the banking industry would be under scrutiny/attack.
So basically what we are saying is if the German Government does bail out DB, its pretty much business as usual for the majority, the risk is if they don't.
So lets say they don't. In real terms what is going to happen, bigger picture wise for the majority? Lets be specific.
jsf said:
The rest of the banking industry has been under scrutiny since 2008, so nothing changes there.
So basically what we are saying is if the German Government does bail out DB, its pretty much business as usual for the majority, the risk is if they don't.
So lets say they don't. In real terms what is going to happen, bigger picture wise for the majority? Lets be specific.
Sidicks will know more...... but DB's lenders, counter parties, etc might find themselves unable to call on their funds (or worse have the entirety of their DB expoure be written off), run out of liquidity, suffer huge loses, and find themselves going bust and so on, with a domino effect across the global financial markets. So basically what we are saying is if the German Government does bail out DB, its pretty much business as usual for the majority, the risk is if they don't.
So lets say they don't. In real terms what is going to happen, bigger picture wise for the majority? Lets be specific.
Burwood said:
Sid, clients buy things all the time after advice from their 'bankers'. I can only assume they purchased the CDOs thinking they were priced fairly. In reality they weren't due to the underlying being junk. DB knew this because it's a fact that one team was selling them and another was shorting them and selling protection. Something the bank knew all about and approved of. And it wasn't some random lowly trader. The guy implementing this was the Global Head of CDOs. I'm sure you've seen 'The Big Short'. Goslings character is none other than Gregory Lippman who was DB head, even though the movie made him out to be the guy laughed at by traders, he was the boss. Hr made 60M bonus that year
DB was one of the biggest packagers/sellers of CDOs. 30-40B. They made a killing. And here is the left arm of DB selling CDS and talking down the quality of CDOs. A complete conflict of interest.
I'm sure it goes on but as I said earlier, I've never seen such sociopathic behaviour at any other bank. It's almost nurtured at DB.
Selling CDS protection is going long - have I misunderstood?DB was one of the biggest packagers/sellers of CDOs. 30-40B. They made a killing. And here is the left arm of DB selling CDS and talking down the quality of CDOs. A complete conflict of interest.
I'm sure it goes on but as I said earlier, I've never seen such sociopathic behaviour at any other bank. It's almost nurtured at DB.
Murcielago_Boy said:
jsf said:
The rest of the banking industry has been under scrutiny since 2008, so nothing changes there.
So basically what we are saying is if the German Government does bail out DB, its pretty much business as usual for the majority, the risk is if they don't.
So lets say they don't. In real terms what is going to happen, bigger picture wise for the majority? Lets be specific.
Sidicks will know more...... but DB's lenders, counter parties, etc might find themselves unable to call on their funds (or worse have the entirety of their DB expoure be written off), run out of liquidity, suffer huge loses, and find themselves going bust and so on, with a domino effect across the global financial markets. So basically what we are saying is if the German Government does bail out DB, its pretty much business as usual for the majority, the risk is if they don't.
So lets say they don't. In real terms what is going to happen, bigger picture wise for the majority? Lets be specific.
I know what's in the papers etc. with sound bites that the Germans wont bail this bank out, but if you look at recent history, especially in the Eurozone, when their backs are against the wall they ignore the rules and just do what's going to kick the can down the road.
They don't seem to care about the fact they told other people they cant do what they themselves end up doing, or that rules don't allow them to do it.
Burwood said:
Sid, clients buy things all the time after advice from their 'bankers'. I can only assume they purchased the CDOs thinking they were priced fairly. In reality they weren't due to the underlying being junk. DB knew this because it's a fact that one team was selling them and another was shorting them and selling protection.
Trading of investments requires two parties to ascribe a different value to an asset, there is nothing wrong with that. It is a client's responsibility to understand what they are buying, to ask the right questions, do the right analysis etc.You can quote reasonably have a high quality CDO tranche even if the underlying is 'junk' - this is often a fundamental misunderstanding about the nature of the asset.
Of course if the banker misrepresents the asset that's entirely different.
Burwood said:
Something the bank knew all about and approved of. And it wasn't some random lowly trader. The guy implementing this was the Global Head of CDOs. I'm sure you've seen 'The Big Short'. Goslings character is none other than Gregory Lippman who was DB head, even though the movie made him out to be the guy laughed at by traders, he was the boss. Hr made 60M bonus that year
DB was one of the biggest packagers/sellers of CDOs. 30-40B. They made a killing. And here is the left arm of DB selling CDS and talking down the quality of CDOs. A complete conflict of interest.
Talking about CDOs doesn't affect the underlying economics!DB was one of the biggest packagers/sellers of CDOs. 30-40B. They made a killing. And here is the left arm of DB selling CDS and talking down the quality of CDOs. A complete conflict of interest.
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