Jeremy Corbyn Vol. 2
Discussion
Crafty_ said:
"Labour further from power than any time in the last 50 years" says David Miliband https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/25/d...
No doubt some will label him a Blairite, but its difficult to say he's wrong..
and in that one moment of madness ditching him for hapless Ed destroyed any chance of a Labour Gov for a generation or longer.No doubt some will label him a Blairite, but its difficult to say he's wrong..
You do have to think that Mike Pence and Tom Watson might just be better than Donald Trump and Jeremy C.
Someone make two magic bullets please !
That's a joke by the way, in case the security services are watching.
Actually, scrub that, they probably are all up for it, especially in the US
Someone make two magic bullets please !
That's a joke by the way, in case the security services are watching.
Actually, scrub that, they probably are all up for it, especially in the US
Any Answers on Radio 4 today was quite entertaining, some of the real Corbyn true believers ringing in.
They genuinely seem to believe that if we just ignore the media's concentration on trivia, and the MP's attempts to unseat him, the public will come to realise that Corbyn's policies are a stroke of genius.
In a weird sort of way I'd like to sit down and chat to someone like this and try and work through it with them, but I think I'd really struggle to be respectful.
Setting aside any problems I have with his political views (effectively all of them), he's just a rubbish politician. He'd be rubbish wherever he was on the political spectrum. He doesn't appear to have any leadership skills, and doesn't appear - in practice - to have the fine principles his supporters appear to ascribe to him.
Is it a case for the properly left wing that having at long last achieved a Labour leader they approve of, nothing short of him turning out to be a paedo would make them lose faith in him?
They genuinely seem to believe that if we just ignore the media's concentration on trivia, and the MP's attempts to unseat him, the public will come to realise that Corbyn's policies are a stroke of genius.
In a weird sort of way I'd like to sit down and chat to someone like this and try and work through it with them, but I think I'd really struggle to be respectful.
Setting aside any problems I have with his political views (effectively all of them), he's just a rubbish politician. He'd be rubbish wherever he was on the political spectrum. He doesn't appear to have any leadership skills, and doesn't appear - in practice - to have the fine principles his supporters appear to ascribe to him.
Is it a case for the properly left wing that having at long last achieved a Labour leader they approve of, nothing short of him turning out to be a paedo would make them lose faith in him?
pingu393 said:
Mrs Pingu was born and brought up in the Copeland constituency and used to say that if you stuck a red rosette on one of the sheep, people would vote for it.
It was vehemently anti-Tory after the Coal Strike. Nobody would dare to put up a blue board at election time (no matter what it said).
For Labour to lose Copeland mid-term to the Tories and not realise the significance, they deserve to lose ALL their seats.
Just a bunch of uneducated red-faced country bumpkins, not real Labour people, would rather talk about jobs and tackling crime than talk about gender issues and theoretical solutions for the problems of other countries halfway round the world. If they were really committed to the cause they would have moved to Islington or Tower Hamlets by now.It was vehemently anti-Tory after the Coal Strike. Nobody would dare to put up a blue board at election time (no matter what it said).
For Labour to lose Copeland mid-term to the Tories and not realise the significance, they deserve to lose ALL their seats.
Mrs D-Angle is Cumbrian as well, we were up there before the council elections and I was surprised how many blue signs I saw.
Edited by D-Angle on Saturday 25th February 22:20
dandarez said:
paulrockliffe said:
hyphen said:
Nice photo snapped of Corbyn walking through londonl today:
Seen in the daily mail
Could you vote for someone that buys the wrong bike and then does *that* to the stem? I know I couldn't.Seen in the daily mail
But it's a reminder of Mao Tse Tung, so it has to stay.
He even rejected a new bike when supporters had a whip round after his elevation to Great Leader status.
Some waffle or other that MP were told to say retaining Copeland would be difficult:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/25/reveale...
The interesting bit in there is it claims the unions are suggesting Corbyn goes at the end of the year if he can't improve the situation.
Watson says party leadership should take responsibility:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/25/c...
Is he starting a bid for leadership ?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/25/reveale...
The interesting bit in there is it claims the unions are suggesting Corbyn goes at the end of the year if he can't improve the situation.
Watson says party leadership should take responsibility:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/25/c...
Is he starting a bid for leadership ?
Crafty_ said:
Some waffle or other that MP were told to say retaining Copeland would be difficult:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/25/reveale...
The interesting bit in there is it claims the unions are suggesting Corbyn goes at the end of the year if he can't improve the situation.
Watson says party leadership should take responsibility:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/25/c...
Is he starting a bid for leadership ?
I've no doubt at all IF Corbyn goes McDonnell throws his hat into the ring and then gets voted in by the membership. The issue is Ed Milliband fked with the voting setup which cannot be reversed unless those who vote for the change in rules/why would they a bit like Turkeys voting for Xmas to be cancelled. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/25/reveale...
The interesting bit in there is it claims the unions are suggesting Corbyn goes at the end of the year if he can't improve the situation.
Watson says party leadership should take responsibility:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/25/c...
Is he starting a bid for leadership ?
Welshbeef said:
I've no doubt at all IF Corbyn goes McDonnell throws his hat into the ring and then gets voted in by the membership. The issue is Ed Milliband fked with the voting setup which cannot be reversed unless those who vote for the change in rules/why would they a bit like Turkeys voting for Xmas to be cancelled.
McDonnell has no chance because anyone standing to replace Corbyn still has to get the support of 15% of Labour MPs. So effectively the PLP have a veto on the candidates once Corbyn stands down. I believe this is the main reason there is such a roadblock to removing Corbyn... only those in Corbyn's team can get rid of him now and while even they can see he isn't up to the job they are also desperate to retain control of the party by replacing him with another left winger.... the problem is they do not have enough votes to get any one on the ballot. So Labour are in this bizarre situation where the bulk of the PLP can't oust a leader they hate and the leader won't step down as he knows it means his side loses control of the party. As for the blame on this being put at Ed Miliband's door, well I think this is revising history somewhat. The PLP were enthusiastic supporters of changing the voting set up because they thought it would reduce union influence and ensure they didn't end up with another leader who was too far left!!! And of course if that wasn't badly judged enough several Moderate/Blairite MPs then gave Corbyn their nomination vote in 2015 in order to ensure a 'wider debate' in the election even though they didn't actually believe he was a credible candidate. So the blame is just as much at the door of those arrogant "Moderates" within the party as it is at Miliband's.
edit:
and if all that wasn't bad enough the PLP managed to actually strengthen Corbyn's position last summer with that badly timed and ill thought through 'coup'. Owen Smith pretending to be just as left wing as Corbyn was never going to convince anyone. This combined with all the sniping they did from day 1 of Corbyn's leadership means
all they have done is provide perfect excuses for the current terrible polling and galvanise support for the supreme leader at the exact time many of his followers were starting to have doubts.
Edited by VolvoT5 on Sunday 26th February 08:58
Cobnapint said:
Can't the rules be changed by the NEC alone? I'm not sure, but whatever, they'll find a way and Milliband D will be ushered in as the messaih mid 2018 in prep for the GE.
He is over rated as well, a case of people looking back with rose tinted glasses at a man who was has never actually shown any leadership ability. If that is the best idea the centre of the party can come up with then they are fked. Besides which he doesn't even have a seat in parliament at the moment and there is little prospect of momentum / the new left wing members allowing him to be selected to stand. VolvoT5 said:
McDonnell has no chance because anyone standing to replace Corbyn still has to get the support of 15% of Labour MPs. So effectively the PLP have a veto on the candidates once Corbyn stands down. I believe this is the main reason there is such a roadblock to removing Corbyn... only those in Corbyn's team can get rid of him now and while even they can see he isn't up to the job they are also desperate to retain control of the party by replacing him with another left winger.... the problem is they do not have enough votes to get any one on the ballot. So Labour are in this bizarre situation where the bulk of the PLP can't oust a leader they hate and the leader won't step down as he knows it means his side loses control of the party.
As for the blame on this being put at Ed Miliband's door, well I think this is revising history somewhat. The PLP were enthusiastic supporters of changing the voting set up because they thought it would reduce union influence and ensure they didn't end up with another leader who was too far left!!! And of course if that wasn't bad judged enough several Moderate/Blairite MPs then gave Corbyn their nomination vote in 2015 in order to ensure a 'wider debate' in the election even though they didn't actually believe he was a credible candidate. So the blame is just as much at the door of those arrogant "Moderates" within the party as it is at Miliband's.
That's a similar view to saying Labour voted in the Budgets and Interest rates upping to 15% as they supported the Maastricht treaty. Yet something tells me and the evidence is they have always banged on about 15% interest rates which they agreed to. As for the blame on this being put at Ed Miliband's door, well I think this is revising history somewhat. The PLP were enthusiastic supporters of changing the voting set up because they thought it would reduce union influence and ensure they didn't end up with another leader who was too far left!!! And of course if that wasn't bad judged enough several Moderate/Blairite MPs then gave Corbyn their nomination vote in 2015 in order to ensure a 'wider debate' in the election even though they didn't actually believe he was a credible candidate. So the blame is just as much at the door of those arrogant "Moderates" within the party as it is at Miliband's.
Welshbeef said:
That's a similar view to saying Labour voted in the Budgets and Interest rates upping to 15% as they supported the Maastricht treaty. Yet something tells me and the evidence is they have always banged on about 15% interest rates which they agreed to.
I'm not sure I follow? (not really old enough to remember Maastricht)My main point is the sensible senior people in the Labour party all played a significant part in enabling this disaster to unfold but instead of recognising their own fk ups they have revised history to pin it all on Ed Miliband. They have learned absolutely nothing from any of this which is why I believe Labour are doomed to split apart sooner rather than later. There is no white knight that can turn up now and reunite them as the gap between the MPs, party members and voting public is too big and pulling in 3 different directions.
Johnnytheboy said:
They genuinely seem to believe that if we just ignore the media's concentration on trivia, and the MP's attempts to unseat him, the public will come to realise that Corbyn's policies are a stroke of genius.
If you surround yourself with people who hold similar views it's very difficult for some of these people to accept that those views may be not be as widespread as they think.Of course that works multiple ways, it's not simply a "left" thing.
williamp said:
I think we all agree with this. We need an effective opposition. Corbyn isnt, and its hard to see who of his cronies will be even if he does go. And with their £3 voting rules, its a very cheap way for us public/troublemakers/students to choose someone equally unelectable and daft to be their leader. They need to have a long, hard look at themselves, but I doubt they will until they have a massive fail at GE time. The Tories did in 1997 and did a lot of soul-searching in the wilderness. Labour need to do the same.
I agree totally.It doesn't benefit the country in any way to have such a pitiful opposition party.
It means the government can, more or less, almost do what they want and it also encourages them to infight (and it's not as if the Tories don't have a history of that).
http://news.sky.com/story/corbyn-vows-to-turn-back...
TFA said:
Ahead of his speech, the embattled Labour leader says he takes his share of responsibility for Copeland - but blames globalisation and a rigged economy.
His Wigan MP will be on the stlist, saying that isn't good enough and that they can't go in to a GE with the current status quo.techiedave said:
Just watching him now in Scotland. Seeing all the nodding dogs clapping along when required.
The Labour Party really does deserve all it gets. It's totally fked and they brought it on amongst themselves.
Yup. Voting in Corbyn and opposition candidates being unable or unwilling to get rid of him or form a new party. The Labour Party really does deserve all it gets. It's totally fked and they brought it on amongst themselves.
The party has simply decided it's better to follow Corby s dogma than have any chance of ever being in power.
I suppose at least they're sticking to their ideals but presumably they could still find someone more electable to represent them.
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