Jeremy Corbyn Vol. 2

[Dr Jekyll]

Crafty_ said:

V6Pushfit said:

Because its the yardstick of intelligence and thinking ability.

If you were commanded in the army by someone who only had experience at failing with a pea shooter would you be happy?

Disagree to be honest, I think the value of a degree is much reduced these days. 3 years reading the paper (sorry, doing a "media studies" degree) doesn't mean much imho.

Intelligence and aptitude aren't gained by pissing it up against a wall for 3 years. You either have it or you don't. Some that do, study, others decide to take a different path.

Ed Balls was educated at Oxford and Harvard, by your reckoning that puts him at the top of the tree. Many would disagree.

+1

Neil Kinnock had a degree, John Major didn't.

[motco]

Dr Jekyll said:

Crafty_ said:

V6Pushfit said:

Because its the yardstick of intelligence and thinking ability.

If you were commanded in the army by someone who only had experience at failing with a pea shooter would you be happy?

Disagree to be honest, I think the value of a degree is much reduced these days. 3 years reading the paper (sorry, doing a "media studies" degree) doesn't mean much imho.

Intelligence and aptitude aren't gained by pissing it up against a wall for 3 years. You either have it or you don't. Some that do, study, others decide to take a different path.

Ed Balls was educated at Oxford and Harvard, by your reckoning that puts him at the top of the tree. Many would disagree.

+1

Neil Kinnock had a degree, John Major didn't.

John Prescott has one as well I believe! Hull - economics and economic history...

[Smiler.]

motco said:

Dr Jekyll said:

Crafty_ said:

V6Pushfit said:

Because its the yardstick of intelligence and thinking ability.

If you were commanded in the army by someone who only had experience at failing with a pea shooter would you be happy?

Disagree to be honest, I think the value of a degree is much reduced these days. 3 years reading the paper (sorry, doing a "media studies" degree) doesn't mean much imho.

Intelligence and aptitude aren't gained by pissing it up against a wall for 3 years. You either have it or you don't. Some that do, study, others decide to take a different path.

Ed Balls was educated at Oxford and Harvard, by your reckoning that puts him at the top of the tree. Many would disagree.

+1

Neil Kinnock had a degree, John Major didn't.

John Prescott has one as well I believe! Hull - economics and economic history...

Yep, he's an expert on pie charts

[nikaiyo2]

Vaud said:

Doesn't bother me. As long as she is on top of the brief, I don't mind how she got to her post as shadow education minister.

Philosophical question - what is the minimum level of qualification for an education minister? GCSE? A-levels? BA/BSc? MA/MSc? DPhil? etc... or should they have experience in teaching as part of the education system?

She'll never be in power anyway...

To me 10 years work experience at any level in the real private sector, where you need to earn your income, not the pretend 3rd sector where the state funds you.
If your selection comes via a trade union, or you are an active Union organiser etc then DPhil/ PHD in a genuine academic area from a genuine top drawer institution, so no Marxist studies from any institution or Trade Union Studies from Islington Poly.

[iphonedyou]

Crafty_ said:

Disagree to be honest, I think the value of a degree is much reduced these days. 3 years reading the paper (sorry, doing a "media studies" degree) doesn't mean much imho.

Intelligence and aptitude aren't gained by pissing it up against a wall for 3 years. You either have it or you don't. Some that do, study, others decide to take a different path.

Ed Balls was educated at Oxford and Harvard, by your reckoning that puts him at the top of the tree. Many would disagree.

Why pick out media studies like its the only degree?

Try making the same point with physics. Or aeronautical engineering - they're not pissing anything up the wall with effectively 9-5 weekday hours.

[Crafty_]

Because its generally seen as a rather vague subject.

Engineering (or similar) isn't - you actually gain skills that you can then use in a career - simple example is how to accurately measure something or how to calculate the stress on an object.

I doubt it still exists, but there was a degree course based around Star Trek a few years ago...

But you are quite correct, a degree in something like engineering doesn't mean you are more intelligent/capable than an engineer who went and did an apprenticeship for example.

I can always remember one of my lecturers at college who taught programming languages and wrote several books had a degree in Ornithology. He fully admitted it was completely useless hence he had to go off and start a career and ended up where he did. His degree didn't help him in that career, his intelligence/aptitude did.

[pingu393]

Dr Jekyll said:

Incidentally plenty of army officers without degrees.

They either have a degree or have come up through the ranks and reached WO2 (that's five promotions) before becoming an officer.

So, it's either a degree or lots of relevant experience. Which has she got?

[anonymous-user]

But she was a 'Union Official'

[pingu393]

V6Pushfit said:

But she was a 'Union Official'

So was I. It doesn't mean that I'm competent to be a shadow minister.

Upon reflection, given the current incumbents, my teddy bear probably is .

[Kermit power]

pingu393 said:

Dr Jekyll said:

Incidentally plenty of army officers without degrees.

They either have a degree or have come up through the ranks and reached WO2 (that's five promotions) before becoming an officer.

So, it's either a degree or lots of relevant experience. Which has she got?

Certainly most might have degrees, but beyond that, you're completely mistaken.

Warrant Officers can be promoted (usually directly to Captain, I believe) without going through Sandhurst, but anyone of any rank can be sent to Sandhurst - one of the women my sister went through with was a serving corporal at the time - so long as they meet the minimum educational standards.

Said minimum educational standards are something like an equivalent minimum of 7 GCSEs at grade C or above and 2 A levels at grade E or above. A degree is not required.

[ChemicalChaos]

On Mock the week the other night:

We have the green bin for recycled glass
The black bin for other recycling
And the Corbyn for recycled ideas from the 1970s

[Cobnapint]

Contrast the handful of level headed, professional and meaningful speeches made at the start of the Tory party Conference today, with the utter tripe we heard last week at Labour's Commie fest.

Absolute, fking, worlds apart.

[98elise]

Kermit power said:

pingu393 said:

Dr Jekyll said:

Incidentally plenty of army officers without degrees.

They either have a degree or have come up through the ranks and reached WO2 (that's five promotions) before becoming an officer.

So, it's either a degree or lots of relevant experience. Which has she got?

Certainly most might have degrees, but beyond that, you're completely mistaken.

Warrant Officers can be promoted (usually directly to Captain, I believe) without going through Sandhurst, but anyone of any rank can be sent to Sandhurst - one of the women my sister went through with was a serving corporal at the time - so long as they meet the minimum educational standards.

Said minimum educational standards are something like an equivalent minimum of 7 GCSEs at grade C or above and 2 A levels at grade E or above. A degree is not required.

I don't know about the Army, but the Navy doesn't require a degree to become an officer. A levels would be enough to get you into most roles.

[Stickyfinger]

98elise said:

I don't know about the Army, but the Navy doesn't require a degree to become an officer. A levels would be enough to get you into most roles.

Army, Navy, Air Force, all REQUIRE lots of continuous education/courses to advance rank.

I do not regard Carer to Union Rep an advance and really suspect no further education was required.

[JawKnee]

Crafty_ said:

But you are quite correct, a degree in something like engineering doesn't mean you are more intelligent/capable than an engineer who went and did an apprenticeship for example.

Rubbish. Unless you do a serious amount of self study while on an apprenticeship, you don't get the extensive background knowledge or analytical skills drilled into you if you don't study at University. In my engineering discipline at least, you can spot from a mile off those who haven't properly studied the subject. A degree is a requirement in almost every job advert I see, no matter how many years experience you have.

[anonymous-user]

JawKnee said:

A degree is a requirement in almost every job advert I see, no matter how many years experience you have.

But not Shadow Education secretary.


I went to a school within a few miles of Avondale - used to love the girls from there. In my memory they wore red blazers, so it's not surprising they all got pregnant.

[davepoth]

JawKnee said:

Rubbish. Unless you do a serious amount of self study while on an apprenticeship, you don't get the extensive background knowledge or analytical skills drilled into you if you don't study at University. In my engineering discipline at least, you can spot from a mile off those who haven't properly studied the subject. A degree is a requirement in almost every job advert I see, no matter how many years experience you have.

Rubbish. Many graduates leave University with almost no conception of how to apply what they've learnt in the real world, and it takes years (about as long as an apprenticeship, amusingly) for them to gain that knowledge.

[pingu393]

Kermit power said:

pingu393 said:

Dr Jekyll said:

Incidentally plenty of army officers without degrees.

They either have a degree or have come up through the ranks and reached WO2 (that's five promotions) before becoming an officer.

So, it's either a degree or lots of relevant experience. Which has she got?

Certainly most might have degrees, but beyond that, you're completely mistaken.

Warrant Officers can be promoted (usually directly to Captain, I believe) without going through Sandhurst, but anyone of any rank can be sent to Sandhurst - one of the women my sister went through with was a serving corporal at the time - so long as they meet the minimum educational standards.

Said minimum educational standards are something like an equivalent minimum of 7 GCSEs at grade C or above and 2 A levels at grade E or above. A degree is not required.

Noted, but the point still stands. What has she got? Qualifications that a reasonable person would expect a Minister of State to have, or the relevant experience?

[anonymous-user]

pingu393 said:

Kermit power said:

pingu393 said:

Dr Jekyll said:

Incidentally plenty of army officers without degrees.

They either have a degree or have come up through the ranks and reached WO2 (that's five promotions) before becoming an officer.

So, it's either a degree or lots of relevant experience. Which has she got?

Certainly most might have degrees, but beyond that, you're completely mistaken.

Warrant Officers can be promoted (usually directly to Captain, I believe) without going through Sandhurst, but anyone of any rank can be sent to Sandhurst - one of the women my sister went through with was a serving corporal at the time - so long as they meet the minimum educational standards.

Said minimum educational standards are something like an equivalent minimum of 7 GCSEs at grade C or above and 2 A levels at grade E or above. A degree is not required.

Noted, but the point still stands. What has she got? Qualifications that a reasonable person would expect a Minister of State to have, or the relevant experience?

A cursory check confirms that one can enter the army with the square root of fk all, but if you want to make your way up the greasy pole you are expected to get a degree level education. (sorted by the army)

Having gone to a st school myself, I'd welcome some Stockport comprehensive alumini in positions of influence.

[98elise]

Stickyfinger said:

98elise said:

I don't know about the Army, but the Navy doesn't require a degree to become an officer. A levels would be enough to get you into most roles.

Army, Navy, Air Force, all REQUIRE lots of continuous education/courses to advance rank.

I do not regard Carer to Union Rep an advance and really suspect no further education was required.

I know my RN Engineering training was over 4 years full time education, but that wasn't the point being made.