Jeremy Corbyn Vol. 2
Discussion
Dr Jekyll said:
First of all, you can't really tax businesses. You're taxing the people that own the business.
Secondly if all this stuff can be produced without labour, then there'll be so much of it it'll be free. So what do you need a stipend for.
Ultimately, producing more stuff more easily makes us all better off.
What do you mean you can't tax a business? Corporation tax is paid on all business profits and if you draw a salary for yourself or anyone else then you'll have income tax to pay too. Not sure what you are getting at?Secondly if all this stuff can be produced without labour, then there'll be so much of it it'll be free. So what do you need a stipend for.
Ultimately, producing more stuff more easily makes us all better off.
dimots said:
Dr Jekyll said:
First of all, you can't really tax businesses. You're taxing the people that own the business.
Secondly if all this stuff can be produced without labour, then there'll be so much of it it'll be free. So what do you need a stipend for.
Ultimately, producing more stuff more easily makes us all better off.
What do you mean you can't tax a business? Corporation tax is paid on all business profits and if you draw a salary for yourself or anyone else then you'll have income tax to pay too. Not sure what you are getting at?Secondly if all this stuff can be produced without labour, then there'll be so much of it it'll be free. So what do you need a stipend for.
Ultimately, producing more stuff more easily makes us all better off.
Dr Jekyll said:
And if there was no corporation tax you would have more profit to distribute and pay more income tax. Or pay the staff more and they pay more income tax. So it's the owners that pay the corporation tax and they may recoup some of it by paying staff less. It's always people that pay it.
Well unfortunately I don't really have the time or inclination to explain why you're wrong...so I'll just say 'Ok' 
Carl_Manchester said:
...the elephant in the room which is the collapse for living standards and availability of manufacturing and middle-class jobs...
It's arguably one of the most important problems western politicians should be trying to get their heads around, with profound implications to our wealth and society. Corbyn has nothing of value to add to this discussion. I genuinely worry what opportunities there will be for my kids, 2 and 3... how young can you start teaching python and machine learning?!dimots said:
Well unfortunately I don't really have the time or inclination to explain why you're wrong...so I'll just say 'Ok'
What a cop out.Corp tax is ultimately paid by customers, shareholders and employees.
It is a pointless tax that only exists to make people think it is 'fair' (whatever the fvck that is).
Given corp tax rate is lower than income tax rate for high earners, I expect the exchequer would collect more tax by getting rid of corp tax and flat taxing income, dividends and capital gains.
fblm said:
It's arguably one of the most important problems western politicians should be trying to get their heads around, with profound implications to our wealth and society. Corbyn has nothing of value to add to this discussion. I genuinely worry what opportunities there will be for my kids, 2 and 3... how young can you start teaching python and machine learning?!
Teach them that now and they'll be equipped with the wrong skills in 5yrs.The sort of jobs your kids will be doing in 20yrs mostly don't exist right now (though the way my two are sometimes I just hope headbutting people in the balls and wrestling are still firmly in demand
).We've managed to sustain people in work with an ever growing populace since tech came on stream fully in the 60s despite us all being put out of work by computers. New opportunities will open up and our kids will be able to exploit them as this stuff won't be "new" to them, it will be "natural".
The best thing we can do is encourage them, and get them the best education we can (if we want to close the odds down a bit).
johnfm said:
What a cop out.
Corp tax is ultimately paid by customers, shareholders and employees.
It is a pointless tax that only exists to make people think it is 'fair' (whatever the fvck that is).
Given corp tax rate is lower than income tax rate for high earners, I expect the exchequer would collect more tax by getting rid of corp tax and flat taxing income, dividends and capital gains.
Spot on. CT is the ultimate stealth tax, most people want to pay more! Ironically Corbyn tried to justify his wage cap to sky news by saying the ceos capped wage could employ more people or be invested in the company. Perhaps hes going to champion cutting corporation tax next.Corp tax is ultimately paid by customers, shareholders and employees.
It is a pointless tax that only exists to make people think it is 'fair' (whatever the fvck that is).
Given corp tax rate is lower than income tax rate for high earners, I expect the exchequer would collect more tax by getting rid of corp tax and flat taxing income, dividends and capital gains.
nobody seems to have mentioned that in every company I know, all the lower paid jobs like cleaning, security, handyman, sometimes even receptionists etc, are subcontracted out to other companies. Thus making comparing the salary of the cleaner with the CEO impossible ... well unless the company in question IS the cleaning company I guess.
Just shows how out of touch he is with how offices and companies work these days.
I daresay it's even the same in the offices of Unite, RMT etc and all his other favourite organisations, I would be surprised if their office cleaners are directly on their payroll.
He's an idiot.
Just shows how out of touch he is with how offices and companies work these days.
I daresay it's even the same in the offices of Unite, RMT etc and all his other favourite organisations, I would be surprised if their office cleaners are directly on their payroll.
He's an idiot.
mcdjl said:
Dr Jekyll said:
Ultimately, producing more stuff more easily makes us all better off.
Only so long as there's someone who you can sell your stuff to. Which there won't be if they're all unemployed. Dr Jekyll said:
If everything is produced without labour, then it's all free, so nobody needs jobs and we all just pick up the automatically produced stuff.
Whose capital will be used to own the robotic factory that gives them zero return? Who will be giving them the commodities for free?Edited by ellroy on Friday 13th January 10:56
ellroy said:
Dr Jekyll said:
If everything is produced without labour, then it's all free, so nobody needs jobs and we all just pick up the automatically produced stuff.
Who's capital will be used to own the robotic factory that gives them zero return? Who will be giving them the commodities for free?If the robotic factory can be built by robots, who in turn are built by other robots, produced from materials extracted and processed by robots, etc. then the only real cost is the initial production of these robots. They'd be paid for and produced during the transition phase from a labour / wage based economy to whatever it is you'd end up with.
DanL said:
think the theory is that stuff only costs money because you have to pay for the labour to produce it.
If the robotic factory can be built by robots, who in turn are built by other robots, produced from materials extracted and processed by robots, etc. then the only real cost is the initial production of these robots. They'd be paid for and produced during the transition phase from a labour / wage based economy to whatever it is you'd end up with.
+1If the robotic factory can be built by robots, who in turn are built by other robots, produced from materials extracted and processed by robots, etc. then the only real cost is the initial production of these robots. They'd be paid for and produced during the transition phase from a labour / wage based economy to whatever it is you'd end up with.
And if you do need people to design the robots, that's where the employment comes from. Just as now people are employed to design build and drive tractors rather than to walk around in the mud wielding spades.
fblm said:
Carl_Manchester said:
Looks like another Labour MP is jumping captain Corbyn's sinking ship now https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-par...
It is a very winnable seat for UKIP.
It is a very winnable seat for UKIP.
Edited by VolvoT5 on Friday 13th January 09:45
VolvoT5 said:
Looks like another Labour MP is jumping captain Corbyn's sinking ship now https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-par...
That's a really interesting constituency with Cons and UKIP neck and neck in second and not a million miles behind the incumbent.Just came on to post that Tristram Hunt had resigned.
He was probably too posh to ever get to the top in the Labour party - but also not really the bruiser politician (more Labour's Zac Goldsmith). The V&A is a nice gig though.
It got me thinking. Class is probably the only acceptable way to denigrate a political opponent in the UK - and it only works against the upper classes. Attack your opponent for his her/religion or race and you are dead. Scoff at their council roots or comprehensive education and you will be thought an insufferable snob. Call them a posh public school boy and you will damage them.
He was probably too posh to ever get to the top in the Labour party - but also not really the bruiser politician (more Labour's Zac Goldsmith). The V&A is a nice gig though.
It got me thinking. Class is probably the only acceptable way to denigrate a political opponent in the UK - and it only works against the upper classes. Attack your opponent for his her/religion or race and you are dead. Scoff at their council roots or comprehensive education and you will be thought an insufferable snob. Call them a posh public school boy and you will damage them.
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