Jeremy Corbyn Vol. 2
Discussion
Blib said:
I agree about the job offer being an important aspect of his decision.
Still, excellent timing for Corbyn's enemies.
It's such a shame that this government is not being put under effective scrutiny in the House. Unfortunately, until Corbyn and his cabal are pushed out, Mrs May will have almost free reign.
During such an important period of our nation's history, this is a desperate situation to find ourselves in.
This in spades.Still, excellent timing for Corbyn's enemies.
It's such a shame that this government is not being put under effective scrutiny in the House. Unfortunately, until Corbyn and his cabal are pushed out, Mrs May will have almost free reign.
During such an important period of our nation's history, this is a desperate situation to find ourselves in.
With such a bunch of numpties in opposition May's government could almost be a dictatorship.
I'm sure that pleases many of the 'slightly to the right of Attila the Hun' denizens of N,P & E but for those of us who inhabit the real world it is a massive concern.
Stickyfinger said:
BigMon said:
May's government could almost be a dictatorship.
I'm sure that pleases many of the 'slightly to the right of Attila the Hun'
in the UK ?I'm sure that pleases many of the 'slightly to the right of Attila the Hun'
"those of us in the real world"
oh dear
But then I don't think I'm "slightly right of Attila the Hun"
I am however "very very slightly right of Corbyn"
ZedLeg said:
I was thinking this. Off the top of my head you could say that no one in the company is allowed to be paid more than 1000% more than the lowest paid people on staff. Minimum wage pays about £15k a year based on 40hrs a week so it would give a top salary of about £150k a year, which I'd say is reasonable.
Obviously there is more to it than that but it seems like a fair compromise to my wishy washy lefty eye.
Define Reasonable in your statement. Obviously there is more to it than that but it seems like a fair compromise to my wishy washy lefty eye.
Why are people paid more at the top? That last statement of yours suggest to me you have little idea of what goes on at the top of business or society.
Responsibilities. Decision making skills. Experience. Leadership. < None of these fit in with lefty thinking practises. It's their idea that the state the takes responsibility for everyone (err no) - they take decisions based on lowest common denominators, they only have experience of their way of thinking (not learning from mistakes) and boy have Labour proved they cannot lead the country into anything great in the last 50 years).
Why would someone who runs a large British company want to sell their resulting skills and experience for only £150k a year? When you have maybe 10k, 20k or more staff depending on your decision making, company direction,strategies for their livelihoods. After tax it's not that much given the cost of living in this country.
And we all know any corporates would get around this - taxation drives the behaviour - because suddenly all C level execs or directions or members or the board would be employed overseas, or they get salary sacrifice but huge bonuses, share payments, pension top ups etc. Wealth as opposed to earnings is a whole other argument.
Corbyn is just Trotting out (sic) the usual lefty nonsense that those at the top of the tree belittle them underneath it, could not possibly be worth more than anyone else, and more emphatically want to create class divide and jealously in the 'lower ranks' of society. Why ? Because it keeps them in the unions and labour party in jobs and power.
If you have ever worked with successful senior execs you soon see that their thinking capabilities and ability to apply business decisions are of inordinately higher planes to other employees in the business. They are making our corporation billion's of pounds every year, growing the business organically and thinking about sustainable improvement for the company, it's employees and of course shareholders. I've got to make an assumption that our CEO is certainly earning a 7 figure sum every year. But his performance in turning the company around recently has proven he is worth every penny. All staff are getting regular performance bonuses when the company does well and we are employing more staff too. That kind of idea does not fit in well with the Lefty nonsense that JC and his cronies spout.
I have to really try and listen for what the Labour party is saying these post even Miliband years. Because i have to listen through the bile, jealousy, hypocrisy and nonsense to try and find a direction, opinion or just a plain good idea that they might come up with that's worth taking onboard and campaigning for. I don't think it will ever happen with JC and the Fabians runnings the show, not to mention the sycophantic unions.
How's this for a question? Reputedly JC earns north of £140k a year from his position. Do you think he is worth that? is he demonstrating value, effort, and leadership 4x 5x or even 6x more than some of the union members he represents as leader of the PLP? F*ck no would be my answer. But don't you worry for poor JC - he'll go back to his union funded pension, and his near $1m house in north london whilst he worries about the common man. Hypocrisy to the highest degree in my book. Same goes for his other Fabian-tastic pals. It's easy to be idealistic when you have the family money to fall back on ? Are you listing JC/ Ed & David Miliband , that C*nt Blair etc? Easiest way to end up with a fortune is to start off with one right ?
There is a wider argument to ask if any of our recent politicians are doing their bit for the people and UK as a whole. I'd think of maybe a handful that i respect and have done decent things for the betterment of all. I distrust most politicians by default until they can prove they are worthy, that's why i am interested in politics to find out what exactly they are up to. To many, if not most, it's a career and a gravy train. Those in Public service should not be like that but it's hard to resist that part of human nature.
The wage cap is pure nonsense from a corporate sense. If you didn't attract the best people into business, they would not be doing so well. They would potentially underperform, and result in employing fewer staff. Of course you want the best leaders for a company - and they cost money. To throw around any number for a wages cap shows enormous ignorance of the responsibilities these top earners have on their shoulders day in day out.
It's similar to the nasty jealous statements we get about politicians who had 'privileged' educations, who went to the best schools/ private schools - that these people end up running the country . Like that's a bad thing (!) to have well educated people in critical jobs, thinking of the bigger picture and of the country as a whole instead of getting bogged down in individual issues. Most people rarely think any further than the end of their nose - what's important to them is all that counts. Even being generous, they might think about themselves and their immediate family and friends. But i'll say it here that many in society do not understand the bigger picture at all or do not have the capability to do so- Brexit and the resulting pathetic backlash by remoaners has proven that point very nicely indeed.
Until the Labour party stop trying to control everything/everyone, and dispose of the ideas that the state must provide for all, they will get nowhere. Nowhere on this planet has shown that communism or socialism has been a sustainable or financially viable idea. Adults have to take responsibility for themselves - it's something we get fundamentally wrong in this country and party this comes from the benefits system enabling the many to live life without those responsibilities or concerns as the state has handed them out their 'fix'. It annoys me that those people who really need assistance ( long term illnesses, disabled, learning difficulties or those with mental health problems etc) be it from services or financial help , really suffer as a section of our society claiming 'benefits' prevent these people getting the help they sorely need. Public payments should be for the few, not the many. It's distributed in the wrong way.
But if you give a large part of society their benefits fix- they will carry on voting for you right ? Nice ploy by the Labour party for years IMHO.
BigMon said:
This in spades.
With such a bunch of numpties in opposition May's government could almost be a dictatorship.
I'm sure that pleases many of the 'slightly to the right of Attila the Hun' denizens of N,P & E but for those of us who inhabit the real world it is a massive concern.
Why is it a massive concern?With such a bunch of numpties in opposition May's government could almost be a dictatorship.
I'm sure that pleases many of the 'slightly to the right of Attila the Hun' denizens of N,P & E but for those of us who inhabit the real world it is a massive concern.
We're still in a democracy, and if the current Conservative is incompetent or drastic enough, then people will vote in the opposition, even if that opposition is Corbyn.
If anything, I'd say that the really concerning period in British politics has, at least for the moment, come to an end. For the past twenty years, unless your choice was somewhere between the centre and a little bit to the left of centre, there has literally been nobody to vote for with the faintest hope of winning.
Granted, we might not want to keep Corbyn forever, but at least next time there's a credible left wing alternative, we'll have a more level electoral playing field on which an election can take place, so for that alone, we should be eternally grateful for the current situation in this country.
If you think you've got massive cause for concern here, take a look around you! Would you want Trump? I wouldn't be surprised if Marine Le Pen wins in France next year either. Would that be good? Or is it better to have a political system where we can sensibly move the balance to the right without the need to vote in a nutter?
Kermit power said:
Why is it a massive concern?
We're still in a democracy, and if the current Conservative is incompetent or drastic enough, then people will vote in the opposition, even if that opposition is Corbyn.
Well firstly, the country will be royally screwed up and take an age to recover. And second, if there isn't a de facto two-party system in place, the next government is a coalition. Coalition government engenders future coalition governments. Single issue and populist parties spring up and capture a few seats each. Nothing meaningful can ever be carried out in government as each policy decision has to be a multiway negotiation. We're still in a democracy, and if the current Conservative is incompetent or drastic enough, then people will vote in the opposition, even if that opposition is Corbyn.
Very frightening scenario, really.
Whoozit said:
Kermit power said:
Why is it a massive concern?
We're still in a democracy, and if the current Conservative is incompetent or drastic enough, then people will vote in the opposition, even if that opposition is Corbyn.
Well firstly, the country will be royally screwed up and take an age to recover. And second, if there isn't a de facto two-party system in place, the next government is a coalition. Coalition government engenders future coalition governments. Single issue and populist parties spring up and capture a few seats each. Nothing meaningful can ever be carried out in government as each policy decision has to be a multiway negotiation. We're still in a democracy, and if the current Conservative is incompetent or drastic enough, then people will vote in the opposition, even if that opposition is Corbyn.
Very frightening scenario, really.
Moving on from that, why does having a two party system with a significant policy gap between the two parties mean that we've not got a two party system?
As for coalition government engendering more coalition government, if only we could find a country that had a coalition government before their most recent general election and see what the outcome of that was?
Kermit power said:
Err... The country already is royally screwed and taking an age to recover as a result of two decades of uninterrupted centre left government!!
I've lived in screwed up countries. This isn't one, whatever leftist rose tinted spectacles you might be looking through. We live in one of the great countries of the world, an economic superpower, with culture and history that sets the tone for much of the rest of the world. We benefit from a VERY significant social safety net, extremely good emergency services, maintain law and order, still have a respected military, and have one of the best intelligence networks in the world. When was the last time you couldn't drink water from the tap safely? Or walk the streets in the middle of the capital, wearing a watch/using your mobile? Or was shaken down for a bribe by an official?
Seriously, some people.
Whoozit said:
Kermit power said:
Err... The country already is royally screwed and taking an age to recover as a result of two decades of uninterrupted centre left government!!
I've lived in screwed up countries. This isn't one, whatever leftist rose tinted spectacles you might be looking through. We live in one of the great countries of the world, an economic superpower, with culture and history that sets the tone for much of the rest of the world. We benefit from a VERY significant social safety net, extremely good emergency services, maintain law and order, still have a respected military, and have one of the best intelligence networks in the world. When was the last time you couldn't drink water from the tap safely? Or walk the streets in the middle of the capital, wearing a watch/using your mobile? Or was shaken down for a bribe by an official?
Seriously, some people.
I can only assume you've not actually bothered to read anything I've written before replying if you think I'm looking through leftist rose tinted spectacles!!
Kermit power said:
You've just listed most of the reasons why this country is screwed up! Yes, we've got all those lovely things... How exactly do you propose that we pay for those things once the baby boomers are all retired, PFI comes home to roost etc?
I can only assume you've not actually bothered to read anything I've written before replying if you think I'm looking through leftist rose tinted spectacles!!
Kermit, have you travelled anywhere outside the privileged, wealthy Western world? You're worried about a marginal shift in pension entitlements. The mere fact the social compact contemplates a universal pension forever is an astounding economic achievement. Even if this pension will reduce over time, it's simply not going to lead to the situation for 70% of humanity today, which is work, rely on family or die. I can only assume you've not actually bothered to read anything I've written before replying if you think I'm looking through leftist rose tinted spectacles!!
Yes, this country needs to agree what we want to spend our tax revenue on. Yes, the balance will shift. But in my lifetime, or that of my daughter, the country will not slip out of Developed World rankings into Emerging Market.
Unless of course an extreme left wing Labour government is allowed to ride roughshod over economic prudence. Wel ome back IMF rescue plans, reduced lifespans, shorter working lives, less income, owning fewer "things".
768 said:
Employing a teacher to check their workings was perhaps the smartest move Labour had made for a long time.
Leaving the red pen in shot, less so.
What warms my piss is in my line of work I have to wait till my bic biro runs out before I can have a new one. Just fLeaving the red pen in shot, less so.
king look at that box on the table - bloody full of pissing brand new bic biros. Look at it!!! fking excesses in politics these days, I bet the s have both helped themselves to a couple for home before they fking left the cockwombles....... Hypocritical bds with their damn noses in the trough taking the benefit of hard earnt taxpayer money for bic biros like they are a free after dinner mint as they leave Boiled piss status Defcon 10 - warning danger to manifold!!!!
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