Lorries cause more cycling accidents

[Deptford Draylons]

frisbee said:

Deptford Draylons said:

The number killed and injured is very low given the piss poor standards of most muppets on bike in town. Given the number of red lights run, jumping off the pavement in front of vehicles , just stopping anywhere to check a phone and the deliberate idiots of actively place themselves in huge danger by cycling between two trucks and large vehicles with inches to spare on the assumption they will be seen, I'm amazed there isn't more dead.

Who cares? Its natural selection.

Being what I consider to be a safe cyclist, the only thing that concerns me is that their behaviour undoubtedly causes some dicks to inflict punishment passes on me in retaliation.

I do , a bit, I've driven large HGVs in town and its not a great feeling to nearly kill someone. To drive in town is to be swamped by idiots on bikes at lights, car deliberately getting in the wrong lane with the intention to cut you up, morons on mopeds weaving in and out, and everyone one of them expecting you to solely focus on them and see only them at all times.
I used to get people on bikes ride between two trucks with inches to spare when we are slow moving ( 1-20mph )and if either one of us moved by a foot, they would make contact and probably be down and dragged under the wheels. The risks some cyclists will deliberately take is amazing.

[davepoth]

Deptford Draylons said:

The risks some cyclists will deliberately take is amazing.

It's not deliberate IMO; they just don't understand the risks that they are taking, despite all of the news stories.

[motco]

Willy Nilly said:

motco said:

I think that the OP's idea is worth considering. If it resulted in even a small reduction in HGV traffic in peak times it would be a benefit.

Are you out of your mind?

There is a reason an LGV is on the road at any given time and that is because it has somewhere it needs to be.

Every truck you see on the road has a driver, maybe two. Someone loaded it, someone will unload it. A business needed the truck to take their products away and one at the other end is waiting for the truck to make a delivery. If you suddenly outlaw LGV's during the day, who is going to be on hand to drive and service these vehicles at night? Is there even enough time during the night to move everything about that needs moving.

As a cyclist, anecdotally, I don't have much trouble with trucks. They're big, you can hear them approaching and they generally driven well. I have much more trouble with old duffers mis judging how much room they need to overtake me.

Everyone needs to take responsibility for their own safety, if you nip up the side of a truck whether you are on a push bike, motorbike or even a car and you haven't made eye contact with the driver, you are an idiot.

'Worth considering' is as strong as I put it and I referred to a small reduction. Lots of commercial vehicles travel between depots and they may be able to run at night. Perhaps they already do; I am not in the haulage business. Out of my mind? Perhaps - for expecting a civil response.

[Deptford Draylons]

davepoth said:

Deptford Draylons said:

The risks some cyclists will deliberately take is amazing.

It's not deliberate IMO; they just don't understand the risks that they are taking, despite all of the news stories.

It's a bit of both. Make no mistake though, some will deliberately put themselves in extreme danger to block you from moving and await you to look at them. You can't really not be sat between two artics with one or two foot either side of you and not realise that you are in a very dangerous position

[heebeegeetee]

Interesting comments here: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/sep/2...

[Deptford Draylons]

heebeegeetee said:

Interesting comments here: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/sep/2...

Driving something like this style is actually easier for the driver most of the time, and far safer in town and makes a huge difference in terms of view/blind spots

[heebeegeetee]

Deptford Draylons said:

heebeegeetee said:

Interesting comments here: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/sep/2...

Driving something like this style is actually easier for the driver most of the time, and far safer in town and makes a huge difference in terms of view/blind spots

I'm inclined to agree.

[rolex]

As driverless vehicles are the future maybe we could have driverless bicycles as well.

[saaby93]

That article is more than 2 years old

Superhoop said:

This... Surely the title should read, cyclists cause more cycling accidents if it's purely based on the vehicle types involved..
As unless I'm mistaken, 100% of cycling accidents involve a cyclist?

it just shows how statistics can be represented

[Cobalt Blue]

Being up the inside of a lorry when nearing a junction is not a good place to be. So many cyclist edge forward at the lights, but there have been recent accident(s) where the truck has overtaken the cyclist before turning left. I won't trouble the swear filter with my opinion of those drivers, but it would have been wise for the cyclist to slow or stop before the junction - being in the right does not make anyone immortal!

By keeping away from the nearside of lorries at junctions, cyclists have the means to cut down accidents considerably - at least they will still be alive to swear at the driver.

'Cow-catcher' guards can prevent people from going under the rear wheels and I believe that some moves are being made to require them on lorries. They are a problem for construction vehicles when going off-road, but surely it is not beyond the wit of (wo)man to design light alloy guards that fold up when needed?

Another idea might be to have a proximity radar to beep (loudly) when a person is in the nearside blind spot, or even for cyclists to carry a lightweight transponder that activates a signal in the lorry cab. Adoption by both hauliers and cyclists might be challenging though.

CB (ex artic tipper driver driver and occasional cyclist)

[simes43]

Cobalt Blue said:

Being up the inside of a lorry when nearing a junction is not a good place to be. So many cyclist edge forward at the lights, but there have been recent accident(s) where the truck has overtaken the cyclist before turning left. I won't trouble the swear filter with my opinion of those drivers, but it would have been wise for the cyclist to slow or stop before the junction - being in the right does not make anyone immortal!

By keeping away from the nearside of lorries at junctions, cyclists have the means to cut down accidents considerably - at least they will still be alive to swear at the driver.

'Cow-catcher' guards can prevent people from going under the rear wheels and I believe that some moves are being made to require them on lorries. They are a problem for construction vehicles when going off-road, but surely it is not beyond the wit of (wo)man to design light alloy guards that fold up when needed?

Another idea might be to have a proximity radar to beep (loudly) when a person is in the nearside blind spot, or even for cyclists to carry a lightweight transponder that activates a signal in the lorry cab. Adoption by both hauliers and cyclists might be challenging though.

CB (ex artic tipper driver driver and occasional cyclist)

The problem as I see it is that a lorry or car driver is having to constantly judge, observe
and manage a dynamic situation. In Cambridge, a high number of cyclists show absolutely
no level of anticipation, other than towards what is directly in front of them and how it may
impede their momentum.

The trick of using the pavement, because the road ahead is running a little slow is rife here.

Half the reason traffic runs so slowly is due to cyclists using pedestrian crossings as a way of
not having to bother with boring stuff like traffic lights and roundabouts.

I walk, ride and drive a car to get around the city.

[Willy Nilly]

motco said:

Willy Nilly said:

motco said:

I think that the OP's idea is worth considering. If it resulted in even a small reduction in HGV traffic in peak times it would be a benefit.

Are you out of your mind?

There is a reason an LGV is on the road at any given time and that is because it has somewhere it needs to be.

Every truck you see on the road has a driver, maybe two. Someone loaded it, someone will unload it. A business needed the truck to take their products away and one at the other end is waiting for the truck to make a delivery. If you suddenly outlaw LGV's during the day, who is going to be on hand to drive and service these vehicles at night? Is there even enough time during the night to move everything about that needs moving.

As a cyclist, anecdotally, I don't have much trouble with trucks. They're big, you can hear them approaching and they generally driven well. I have much more trouble with old duffers mis judging how much room they need to overtake me.

Everyone needs to take responsibility for their own safety, if you nip up the side of a truck whether you are on a push bike, motorbike or even a car and you haven't made eye contact with the driver, you are an idiot.

'Worth considering' is as strong as I put it and I referred to a small reduction. Lots of commercial vehicles travel between depots and they may be able to run at night. Perhaps they already do; I am not in the haulage business. Out of my mind? Perhaps - for expecting a civil response.

Anything that can be shifted out of hours will already being shifted out of hours. You're on a building site and need bricks. Do you want them delivered at 2am when no body is on site, or at 8am when everyone is there?

I load and unload lorries regularly. If the trucks were only allowed to move at night, I would have to shift to nights, as would the mills and crushing plants that buy are produce. We do hour work during the day and a lot of it can't be done at night due to humidity, so who stays on to load/unload lorries? What about the neighbours, they won't like lorries moving at night.

Also, how often do you hear the travel report in the morning where an crash is still being mopped up that happened at 3am? There will be more 3am crashes with more lorries on the road at night.

[Mr GrimNasty]

Part of the 'solution' should be to bring in strict laws on cyclists' responsibilities when in the vicinity of HGVs with regards to not passing and keeping a safe distance.

If that spoils progress a bit, well it's a small price to pay for a life isn't it!

[anonymous-user]

I just treat cyclists the same as children, unpredictable, clueless and random.

Personally I just don't want to be involved and if the cyclists don't understand the danger or risks they are taking despite all the horror stories in the press, then Darwin predicts the outcome.

If a lorry is involved there now seems to be a presumption that the lorry driver is at fault when infact the opposite maybe true, suggest bikes ars fitted with 4' horizontal bar across the front to stop then getting into narrow gaps.

The lorries now have bars on the side so the bike should as well.

[motco]

Willy Nilly said:

motco said:

Willy Nilly said:

motco said:

I think that the OP's idea is worth considering. If it resulted in even a small reduction in HGV traffic in peak times it would be a benefit.

Are you out of your mind?

There is a reason an LGV is on the road at any given time and that is because it has somewhere it needs to be.

Every truck you see on the road has a driver, maybe two. Someone loaded it, someone will unload it. A business needed the truck to take their products away and one at the other end is waiting for the truck to make a delivery. If you suddenly outlaw LGV's during the day, who is going to be on hand to drive and service these vehicles at night? Is there even enough time during the night to move everything about that needs moving.

As a cyclist, anecdotally, I don't have much trouble with trucks. They're big, you can hear them approaching and they generally driven well. I have much more trouble with old duffers mis judging how much room they need to overtake me.

Everyone needs to take responsibility for their own safety, if you nip up the side of a truck whether you are on a push bike, motorbike or even a car and you haven't made eye contact with the driver, you are an idiot.

'Worth considering' is as strong as I put it and I referred to a small reduction. Lots of commercial vehicles travel between depots and they may be able to run at night. Perhaps they already do; I am not in the haulage business. Out of my mind? Perhaps - for expecting a civil response.

Anything that can be shifted out of hours will already being shifted out of hours. You're on a building site and need bricks. Do you want them delivered at 2am when no body is on site, or at 8am when everyone is there?

I load and unload lorries regularly. If the trucks were only allowed to move at night, I would have to shift to nights, as would the mills and crushing plants that buy are produce. We do hour work during the day and a lot of it can't be done at night due to humidity, so who stays on to load/unload lorries? What about the neighbours, they won't like lorries moving at night.

Also, how often do you hear the travel report in the morning where an crash is still being mopped up that happened at 3am? There will be more 3am crashes with more lorries on the road at night.

I suspected that it was already practised in some sectors. It would have to be depot to depot in most cases obviously. As small hours travel is rarely on my agenda, I am not familiar with the motorways at those times. An incentive as OP suggested might move a few more over though. It would be impossible to shift all commercial freight to night hours, I agree.

[speedchick]

Wife of a wagon driver here.

Where to start with night running for HGVs..... where do all these lorries park up during the day when they are not allowed to run? Trampers will be working nights and needing to find somewhere to sleep in the cab during the day, its hard enough to find somewhere to park over night, never mind during the day when the rest of the country is awake.

My husband is a day driver, his truck is taken out by another driver overnight, one of em is gonna lose their job and the company is gonna lose haulage time.

And.... look at the size of bin trucks, oh and home delivery trucks, are we really gonna be expecting our new 3 piece suite, washing machine or 49inch TV to be delivered at 3am, or the bins being emptied at midnight?

Also, you will have to wait longer for things, what could be moved in 24 hours is now going to take longer, as what was moved to hub during night, sorted out, then taken to delivery depot during the day, will now only be able to move at night, adding another night to the delivery time.

What is gonna stop these coming together of cyclists and big bully vehicles, is cyclists being educated and actually taking responsibility for themselves, even as a pedestrian, I have nearly been taken out a few times by reckless cyclists.

[Borghetto]

The lack of accountability for cyclists is aided by the difficulty in identifying them. Perhaps legislating that all bikes using public roads have a number plate and be registered. Penalties similar to those given to motorists might install some responsibility in to the minority of cyclists that drive with a reckless abandon.

[Derek Smith]

Deptford Draylons said:

I do , a bit, I've driven large HGVs in town and its not a great feeling to nearly kill someone. To drive in town is to be swamped by idiots on bikes at lights, car deliberately getting in the wrong lane with the intention to cut you up, morons on mopeds weaving in and out, and everyone one of them expecting you to solely focus on them and see only them at all times.
I used to get people on bikes ride between two trucks with inches to spare when we are slow moving ( 1-20mph )and if either one of us moved by a foot, they would make contact and probably be down and dragged under the wheels. The risks some cyclists will deliberately take is amazing.

I saw some stats a few years ago re: cycling serious injury/deaths where lorries were involved.

It would appear that those who were at greatest risk were not the generally aggressive/assertive riders who push between vehicles. It was those who stayed in the gutter, who didn't push to the front of the queue.

[saaby93]

Derek Smith said:

I saw some stats a few years ago re: cycling serious injury/deaths where lorries were involved.

It would appear that those who were at greatest risk were not the generally aggressive/assertive riders who push between vehicles. It was those who stayed in the gutter, who didn't push to the front of the queue.

There was a video a while back showing a tipper truck signalling left
The aggressive assertive guy went up the inside and took off before the lights changed

The quiet unassuming gal who followed him up the inside because everyone else is doing it so must be safe, and who wouldnt set off until the lights were green was alongside the tipper truck back wheels as it began moving.

Is it about setting example?

[powerstroke]

Borghetto said:

The lack of accountability for cyclists is aided by the difficulty in identifying them. Perhaps legislating that all bikes using public roads have a number plate and be registered. Penalties similar to those given to motorists might install some responsibility in to the minority of cyclists that drive with a reckless abandon.

This 100%
The other thing is trucks and vans are needed to deliver stuff and take equipment into cities cycling is a hobby and London has good public transport so maybe its time discorage cycling in cities ....or atleast police their stupid selfish acts , they need to be made more responsible for themselves and the damage they cause to peoples lives when they do something stupid that affects others ....