Lorries cause more cycling accidents

[heebeegeetee]

Borghetto said:

The lack of accountability for cyclists is aided by the difficulty in identifying them. Perhaps legislating that all bikes using public roads have a number plate and be registered. Penalties similar to those given to motorists might install some responsibility in to the minority of cyclists that drive with a reckless abandon.

Does the same apply to pedestrians? There are more peds killed than cyclists in London and the HC states that peds are the most vulnerable.

[Derek Smith]

saaby93 said:

There was a video a while back showing a tipper truck signalling left
The aggressive assertive guy went up the inside and took off before the lights changed

The quiet unassuming gal who followed him up the inside because everyone else is doing it so must be safe, and who wouldnt set off until the lights were green was alongside the tipper truck back wheels as it began moving.

Is it about setting example?

It's a good point. We were told in driver training that we should drive all the time in a manner that is progressive but safe. People look to police drivers.

I think one point with the shy retiring cyclists is the lack of eye contact. When I was a motorcyclist, I was told to stare at people by an instructor - I was never a police motorcyclist, I didn't dribble enough - as it ensures they see you an also they see a big bloke with a great big crash helmet.

But I agree. Everyone, cyclists, motorcyclists, car drivers and commercial drivers, should all drive safely pour encourager les autres.

[frisbee]

powerstroke said:

This 100%
The other thing is trucks and vans are needed to deliver stuff and take equipment into cities cycling is a hobby and London has good public transport so maybe its time discorage cycling in cities ....or atleast police their stupid selfish acts , they need to be made more responsible for themselves and the damage they cause to peoples lives when they do something stupid that affects others ....

Cycling to work/place of study is a cheap, convenient and quick form of transport, it isn't a hobby.

Some cyclists need education but a lot of drivers do as well. Cycling to work I've been subjected to some really stupid or lazy driving that puts my life at risk.

Licencing is completely pointless for bikes, vehicles can get away with pretty much anything currently without fear of being caught. The only time I see any police on my route to work is the one week when a big national event is on. The week when it is nose to tail traffic moving at a crawl...

[Derek Smith]

frisbee said:

Cycling to work/place of study is a cheap, convenient and quick form of transport, it isn't a hobby.

Some cyclists need education but a lot of drivers do as well. Cycling to work I've been subjected to some really stupid or lazy driving that puts my life at risk.

Licencing is completely pointless for bikes, vehicles can get away with pretty much anything currently without fear of being caught. The only time I see any police on my route to work is the one week when a big national event is on. The week when it is nose to tail traffic moving at a crawl...

I used to cycle 20 miles to work, most of it off road. Cycling was a big hobby of mine and whilst I loved my road bike, in the end I got rid of it because of the danger.Off road it was all down to skill. I was attacked by bullocks and also a sparrowhawk but other than that, it was thoroughly enjoyable purely because of the lack of nutty car/van/lorry drivers.

[majordad]

I think motorists don't really expect to have to deal with cyclists, they are unaware of them. There seem a lot more now than years ago and it has'nt dawned on motorists yet to watch out for them. I was knocked off my bike two years ago by a woman who clearly shoulld have seen me, I was 100% in the right and yet she did not see me. I just picked myself up, made it known to her how unobservant she was and off I went.
Our climate is not suitable for bikes, it's too cold, wet and windy. Small city car are the way forward not cycle to work. Cycle for exercise and fun only, I purposely leave out sport due to the "sports" recent and constant drug problems.

[Willy Nilly]

I cycle to work, drive big stuff during the day and have passed more DSA tests than most.

Thursday and Friday last week were "exciting" as far as cycling was concerned, mucho overtaking when I was clearly signalling right and next to no room when they were just overtaking. Oddly, for the most part I find lorry drivers to be quite considerate.

The issue with these bike/lorry interactions is that it is normally implicated that the cyclist is entirely blameless. I don't want to register my bike, or think it is needed, but think cyclists should be held to account, even when they are killed. Anyone that nips up the left of a large vehicle that could potentially turn left is asking for trouble, it's not a secret any more, so people must know it's incredibly dangerous. Yes, the driver should check his mirrors, but people make mistakes and it won't always be obvious except to PH driving gods, that there is a bike 40 feet away from the driver. I really think it should be reported when the cyclist or pedestrian was at fault for their own injury death, that way others will think more carefully about their own safety rather than expecting others to do the thinking for them.

[Walter Sobchak]

KrazyIvan said:

I don't disagree that more should be done to reduce this number, but I think it would be very short sighted to only look a one side as the cause and solution to the problem.

Better design of both trucks and the roads would help, but then education of the cyclist on road safety should be equally as important.

The problem I can with this idea isn't that they want to make HGVs safer for cyclists and pedestrians, the issue is they mention it being mostly construction lorries so I'd take this to mean cement mixers and tipper trucks, these specific types of lorries need the high ground clearance to negotiate some rather uneven construction sites, to try and eliminate this feature from them will cause all sorts of problems.

I also don't think it's entirely fair to blame this all on cyclists,nor do I think some of them are blameless either, yes some don't help themselves by going up the inside of a lorry while maneuvering and I think there should be education in place regarding this very issue.
The best solution would be a vastly superior cycle network than is currently in place but thats unlikely to happen unfortunately.

Edited by Walter Sobchak on Sunday 2nd October 16:33

[frisbee]

majordad said:

I think motorists don't really expect to have to deal with cyclists, they are unaware of them. There seem a lot more now than years ago and it has'nt dawned on motorists yet to watch out for them. I was knocked off my bike two years ago by a woman who clearly shoulld have seen me, I was 100% in the right and yet she did not see me. I just picked myself up, made it known to her how unobservant she was and off I went.
Our climate is not suitable for bikes, it's too cold, wet and windy. Small city car are the way forward not cycle to work. Cycle for exercise and fun only, I purposely leave out sport due to the "sports" recent and constant drug problems.

Our climate is perfectly suitable for cycling. We have about the most benign climate on the planet.

[heebeegeetee]

frisbee said:

majordad said:

I think motorists don't really expect to have to deal with cyclists, they are unaware of them. There seem a lot more now than years ago and it has'nt dawned on motorists yet to watch out for them. I was knocked off my bike two years ago by a woman who clearly shoulld have seen me, I was 100% in the right and yet she did not see me. I just picked myself up, made it known to her how unobservant she was and off I went.
Our climate is not suitable for bikes, it's too cold, wet and windy. Small city car are the way forward not cycle to work. Cycle for exercise and fun only, I purposely leave out sport due to the "sports" recent and constant drug problems.

Our climate is perfectly suitable for cycling. We have about the most benign climate on the planet.

And the climates of Netherlands and Denmark can't be much warmer.

[grumbledoak]

frisbee said:

Our climate is perfectly suitable for cycling. We have about the most benign climate on the planet.

Twaddle. We are a hilly island with year round / semi permanent rain. Great for drinking water and ducks; lousy for most outdoor sports.

[Kermit power]

grumbledoak said:

frisbee said:

Our climate is perfectly suitable for cycling. We have about the most benign climate on the planet.

Twaddle. We are a hilly island with year round / semi permanent rain. Great for drinking water and ducks; lousy for most outdoor sports.

Do you live in the Northern wastelands or something? The only days I won't happily cycle to work (15 miles each way into Central London) are days when it is both wet and below freezing. This amounts to maybe 15 days per annum tops. The rest of the year is absolutely fine.

Moving on the OP, as a regular urban cyclist, I have absolutely zero sympathy for anyone on a bike being squashed by a truck turning left. It's really easy to avoid. Just don't go up the left of a truck at a junction, and it won't be able to turn left and squash you!

Having said that, I don't really understand why all new trucks aren't just fitted with a wide-angled lens covering the blind spot. It's not as though it would cost a great deal.

[Willy Nilly]

Kermit power said:

Having said that, I don't really understand why all new trucks aren't just fitted with a wide-angled lens covering the blind spot. It's not as though it would cost a great deal.

The trouble with adding mirrors is that they create their own blind spot.

[FredClogs]

Is there really any difference between those brave souls cruelly derided in the Darwin awards and cyclists who ride up the left hand side of an 8 wheeler or skip wagon at the lights?

[Einion Yrth]

FredClogs said:

Is there really any difference between those brave souls cruelly derided in the Darwin awards and cyclists who ride up the left hand side of an 8 wheeler or skip wagon at the lights?

Darwin award stories tend to be more amusing; otherwise, no, not really.

[mac96]

Willy Nilly said:

Kermit power said:

Having said that, I don't really understand why all new trucks aren't just fitted with a wide-angled lens covering the blind spot. It's not as though it would cost a great deal.

The trouble with adding mirrors is that they create their own blind spot.

And that that the more mirrors you install, the more places you are expecting the lorry driver to be looking, all at the same time, when he should in fact be spending nearly all the time whilst moving looking straight in front through his windscreen - to avoid the sort of accident that would be 100% his fault, such as running into the vehicle (or cyclist) which had suddenly stopped in front of him.

Then of course, if he COULD have seen a bike in one of several mirrors, cameras etc (had he not been looking in front instead)- it is his fault.

I would hate to be an HGV driver in London. Much rather be a cyclist, which I am.

[Downward]

majordad said:

I think motorists don't really expect to have to deal with cyclists, they are unaware of them. There seem a lot more now than years ago and it has'nt dawned on motorists yet to watch out for them. I was knocked off my bike two years ago by a woman who clearly shoulld have seen me, I was 100% in the right and yet she did not see me. I just picked myself up, made it known to her how unobservant she was and off I went.
Our climate is not suitable for bikes, it's too cold, wet and windy. Small city car are the way forward not cycle to work. Cycle for exercise and fun only, I purposely leave out sport due to the "sports" recent and constant drug problems.

Assuming this is a wind up ?

[mac96]

Downward said:

majordad said:

I think motorists don't really expect to have to deal with cyclists, they are unaware of them. There seem a lot more now than years ago and it has'nt dawned on motorists yet to watch out for them. I was knocked off my bike two years ago by a woman who clearly shoulld have seen me, I was 100% in the right and yet she did not see me. I just picked myself up, made it known to her how unobservant she was and off I went.
Our climate is not suitable for bikes, it's too cold, wet and windy. Small city car are the way forward not cycle to work. Cycle for exercise and fun only, I purposely leave out sport due to the "sports" recent and constant drug problems.

Assuming this is a wind up ?

Must be. Cold weather the best for cycling to work, especially if no shower facillities!

[Downward]

powerstroke said:

Borghetto said:

The lack of accountability for cyclists is aided by the difficulty in identifying them. Perhaps legislating that all bikes using public roads have a number plate and be registered. Penalties similar to those given to motorists might install some responsibility in to the minority of cyclists that drive with a reckless abandon.

This 100%
The other thing is trucks and vans are needed to deliver stuff and take equipment into cities cycling is a hobby and London has good public transport so maybe its time discorage cycling in cities ....or atleast police their stupid selfish acts , they need to be made more responsible for themselves and the damage they cause to peoples lives when they do something stupid that affects others ....

I'd be interested to see what would happen if all cyclists decided to catch public transport to work for 1 day,

[frisbee]

Downward said:

I'd be interested to see what would happen if all cyclists decided to catch public transport to work for 1 day,

I might use my steamroller.

[mac96]

frisbee said:

Downward said:

I'd be interested to see what would happen if all cyclists decided to catch public transport to work for 1 day,

I might use my steamroller.

Must be a very fast steamroller if you are aiming to catch cyclists in town traffic. It'll mainly be stationary cars you squash. On second thoughts- sounds like a good idea.