Lorries cause more cycling accidents
Discussion
Cyclist education is NOT the answer. The cyclists running these risks for the most part know perfectly well what they are doing, just as people who over-eat, people who drink too much, smokers, mountaineers, they all know they are doing risky stuff and they are doing it anyway, because as they see it the reward outweighs the risk.
RobinOakapple said:
Cyclist education is NOT the answer. The cyclists running these risks for the most part know perfectly well what they are doing, just as people who over-eat, people who drink too much, smokers, mountaineers, they all know they are doing risky stuff and they are doing it anyway, because as they see it the reward outweighs the risk.
In that case - enforcement is.simes43 said:
The problem as I see it is that a lorry or car driver is having to constantly judge, observe
and manage a dynamic situation. In Cambridge, a high number of cyclists show absolutely
no level of anticipation, other than towards what is directly in front of them and how it may
impede their momentum.
The trick of using the pavement, because the road ahead is running a little slow is rife here.
Half the reason traffic runs so slowly is due to cyclists using pedestrian crossings as a way of
not having to bother with boring stuff like traffic lights and roundabouts.
I walk, ride and drive a car to get around the city.
Cambridge cyclists are a special breed. They have an unshakeable faith that other road users will keep them safe and they need take no active part in ensuring their own survival. This time of year is particularly special: the nights are drawing in, coinciding with the arrival of several thousand students for whom the bike is their sole means of transport, and everywhere is ample proof that there is no correlation between intelligence and common sense - supposedly highly intelligent people cycling around at dusk/night, in dark clothing, with no lights (quite often the wrong way up one way streets, just to spice things up).and manage a dynamic situation. In Cambridge, a high number of cyclists show absolutely
no level of anticipation, other than towards what is directly in front of them and how it may
impede their momentum.
The trick of using the pavement, because the road ahead is running a little slow is rife here.
Half the reason traffic runs so slowly is due to cyclists using pedestrian crossings as a way of
not having to bother with boring stuff like traffic lights and roundabouts.
I walk, ride and drive a car to get around the city.
mac96 said:
Willy Nilly said:
Kermit power said:
Having said that, I don't really understand why all new trucks aren't just fitted with a wide-angled lens covering the blind spot. It's not as though it would cost a great deal.
The trouble with adding mirrors is that they create their own blind spot. Then of course, if he COULD have seen a bike in one of several mirrors, cameras etc (had he not been looking in front instead)- it is his fault.
I would hate to be an HGV driver in London. Much rather be a cyclist, which I am.
Cameras can be tiny, and don't need to be visible to the driver, so they can be placed somewhere they won't cause blind spots. In fact, if they could replace existing mirrors, they'd actually reduce blind spots.
Add to that, the fact that you no longer need to bounce the driver's line of sight off the mirror surface, and you can install monitors at the bottom of the windscreen and actually reduce the amount of time the driver spends not looking in front of him.
What's not to like about that?
I think everyone can ride/drive like an idiot, but a culture of ignoring basic road rules seem to have been adopted by cyclists in London(let's face it a fair number don't have any training) and I think stronger penalties should be adopted for them.
From someone who is a London cyclist/driver, and is involved in resolving RTCs and rides in a big lorry sometimes.
From someone who is a London cyclist/driver, and is involved in resolving RTCs and rides in a big lorry sometimes.
Kermit power said:
mac96 said:
Willy Nilly said:
Kermit power said:
Having said that, I don't really understand why all new trucks aren't just fitted with a wide-angled lens covering the blind spot. It's not as though it would cost a great deal.
The trouble with adding mirrors is that they create their own blind spot. Then of course, if he COULD have seen a bike in one of several mirrors, cameras etc (had he not been looking in front instead)- it is his fault.
I would hate to be an HGV driver in London. Much rather be a cyclist, which I am.
Cameras can be tiny, and don't need to be visible to the driver, so they can be placed somewhere they won't cause blind spots. In fact, if they could replace existing mirrors, they'd actually reduce blind spots.
Add to that, the fact that you no longer need to bounce the driver's line of sight off the mirror surface, and you can install monitors at the bottom of the windscreen and actually reduce the amount of time the driver spends not looking in front of him.
What's not to like about that?
More signs warning of the dangers should be on cycle lanes or busy routes - every few lampposts could have a sign warning cyclists of the dangers.
Cyclists should have some form of insurance - this might focus the mind a little - but most importantly, the cycle lanes and busy routes should be policed and offending cyclists fined; Go through a red light - £60 instant fine. Get caught 3 times, get an ASBO or whatever they can use these days.
In return - cycle lanes should be better maintained and traffic lights should recognise cyclists (often we're too small to trigger them).
I'm a cyclist.
Cyclists should have some form of insurance - this might focus the mind a little - but most importantly, the cycle lanes and busy routes should be policed and offending cyclists fined; Go through a red light - £60 instant fine. Get caught 3 times, get an ASBO or whatever they can use these days.
In return - cycle lanes should be better maintained and traffic lights should recognise cyclists (often we're too small to trigger them).
I'm a cyclist.
Maxf said:
More signs warning of the dangers should be on cycle lanes or busy routes - every few lampposts could have a sign warning cyclists of the dangers.
Cyclists should have some form of insurance - this might focus the mind a little - but most importantly, the cycle lanes and busy routes should be policed and offending cyclists fined; Go through a red light - £60 instant fine. Get caught 3 times, get an ASBO or whatever they can use these days.
In return - cycle lanes should be better maintained and traffic lights should recognise cyclists (often we're too small to trigger them).
I'm a cyclist.
So you think a few posters that cyclists will pass at speed will focus their minds rather than the threat of badly driven vehicles. I'm not sure that is supported by research.Cyclists should have some form of insurance - this might focus the mind a little - but most importantly, the cycle lanes and busy routes should be policed and offending cyclists fined; Go through a red light - £60 instant fine. Get caught 3 times, get an ASBO or whatever they can use these days.
In return - cycle lanes should be better maintained and traffic lights should recognise cyclists (often we're too small to trigger them).
I'm a cyclist.
I followed - I've recently had to give up cycling for medical reasons - the RSPA advice re safe cycling. I found it was effective when there were reasonable drivers around me. However, a number of drivers would overtake and then push me towards the kerb. I've asked a couple of them what they thought they were doing and I got the old diatribe of cyclists shouldn't be on the road.
Nothing, absolutely nothing, you do with cyclists will stop the drivers that cause accidents.
I've read reports of cycling accidents and it was almost enough to put me off cycling.
Oddly enough, had it done so my back would be in much better condition than it is now so perhaps they had my welfare at heart.
Derek Smith said:
So you think a few posters that cyclists will pass at speed will focus their minds rather than the threat of badly driven vehicles. I'm not sure that is supported by research.
I followed - I've recently had to give up cycling for medical reasons - the RSPA advice re safe cycling. I found it was effective when there were reasonable drivers around me. However, a number of drivers would overtake and then push me towards the kerb. I've asked a couple of them what they thought they were doing and I got the old diatribe of cyclists shouldn't be on the road.
Nothing, absolutely nothing, you do with cyclists will stop the drivers that cause accidents.
I've read reports of cycling accidents and it was almost enough to put me off cycling.
Oddly enough, had it done so my back would be in much better condition than it is now so perhaps they had my welfare at heart.
Some driver cause accidents, absolutely (nearly the cock in a 57 plat A6 the other night in my case), but equally some cyclists dont help themselves. When people see cyclists running red lights when pedestrians are crossing (so no 'defensive riding' argument), it really enforces an 'us and them' attitude. Even as a cyclist, this annoys me - I am on a decent pace, go past some slower cyclists (usually without helmets on squeeking bikes), who then dawdle past me when I'm waiting at some lights - so I have to overtake them again.I followed - I've recently had to give up cycling for medical reasons - the RSPA advice re safe cycling. I found it was effective when there were reasonable drivers around me. However, a number of drivers would overtake and then push me towards the kerb. I've asked a couple of them what they thought they were doing and I got the old diatribe of cyclists shouldn't be on the road.
Nothing, absolutely nothing, you do with cyclists will stop the drivers that cause accidents.
I've read reports of cycling accidents and it was almost enough to put me off cycling.
Oddly enough, had it done so my back would be in much better condition than it is now so perhaps they had my welfare at heart.
On signage - I know what you mean, but there must be junctions where cyclists would stop. On my route, there are plenty of places you could put some signage. The thing is, when you're 'on it', and the adrenaline is flowing its easy to make progress at all costs - overtake the bus which is already indicating is one I end up doing - some signage might be a reminder.
Edited by Maxf on Monday 3rd October 15:56
Maxf said:
Some driver cause accidents, absolutely (nearly the cock in a 57 plat A6 the other night in my case), but equally some cyclists dont help themselves. When people see cyclists running red lights when pedestrians are crossing (so no 'defensive riding' argument), it really enforces an 'us and them' attitude. Even as a cyclist, this annoys me - I am on a decent pace, go past some slower cyclists (usually without helmets on squeeking bikes), who then dawdle past me when I'm waiting at some lights - so I have to overtake them again.
On signage - I know what you mean, but there must be junctions where cyclists would stop. On my route, there are plenty of places you could put some signage.
I agree some don't help themselves. However, many of those seriously injured or killed are those who are not assertive, who wait at the side of the road. If you work it out in proportion to how many of the shrinking violets are on the road, it is plain that cycling near the kerd and waiting at lights for vehicles to pull up beside you is increasing your risks in an already very risky form of transport.On signage - I know what you mean, but there must be junctions where cyclists would stop. On my route, there are plenty of places you could put some signage.
I'm not sure what your point is regarding having to overtake the cyclists again. I could equally point out that you might just as well stayed behind them without increasing your journey time. Why overtake them? More to the point, why get annoyed with them? They've not done anything illegal.
I accept that some cyclists ignore red lights. Oddly enough these are not normally the ones injured in accidents. There is ample research to show this. I used to cycle to work and stop at red lights. I used to get involved in the car drivers' race away from the lights and all of a sudden I would be the one in the way despite complying with the regulations.
Cyclists dress like demented parrots yet they are not seen.
4% of all vehicles yet you have to remember they do spend a lot of hours a day on the road.
Not uncommon to get vehicles doing 1000 miles a day over 3 shifts. 200,000+ miles per year not uncommon.
Personally its a combined issue of drivers, cyclists, vehicle manufacturers IMHO.
However (as a cyclist) I feel the responsibility lies with the cyclists to ensure they ride safe and acknowledge that sometimes they might just have to hang back or slow down. You put yourself in the danger zone you need to accept the risks. You keep out of the danger zone then you are unlucky. And I know, someone is going to come along and say well that's just too slow and it will take me 3 hours to get to work etc etc.. but we cant use that excuse when driving our cars at 50mph in a 30 zone can we...
Not uncommon to get vehicles doing 1000 miles a day over 3 shifts. 200,000+ miles per year not uncommon.
Personally its a combined issue of drivers, cyclists, vehicle manufacturers IMHO.
However (as a cyclist) I feel the responsibility lies with the cyclists to ensure they ride safe and acknowledge that sometimes they might just have to hang back or slow down. You put yourself in the danger zone you need to accept the risks. You keep out of the danger zone then you are unlucky. And I know, someone is going to come along and say well that's just too slow and it will take me 3 hours to get to work etc etc.. but we cant use that excuse when driving our cars at 50mph in a 30 zone can we...
Derek Smith said:
I'm not sure what your point is regarding having to overtake the cyclists again. I could equally point out that you might just as well stayed behind them without increasing your journey time. Why overtake them? More to the point, why get annoyed with them? They've not done anything illegal.
Read his post again, Derek. They have done something illegal. They've jumped the red light. If they hadn't, then he'd only need to overtake them once!Riders like that are vermin.
I frequently find myself overtaking the same ones two or three times in the same ride, as I stop at lights and they slowly cruise through them. They're the cycling equivalent of those people who drive everywhere at 40 regardless of the speed limit, but much, much worse.One one occasion, someone did this to me on four occasions in the space of 7 miles! When I went past, yet again, I politely asked him, if he really insisted on making all cyclists look like t
ts by jumping the red lights, please could he at least shift his arse afterwards so that all the rest of us didn't keep having to go out into traffic to get past him. Two of the other cyclists going past him yet again took their hands off the bars to applaud! 
Derek Smith said:
I'm not sure what your point is regarding having to overtake the cyclists again. I could equally point out that you might just as well stayed behind them without increasing your journey time. Why overtake them? More to the point, why get annoyed with them? They've not done anything illegal.
It was demonstrating that, even as a cyclist, the behaviour of other cyclists can cause immense frustration - which could be the same as some car drivers experience. I am faster than them, by some margin - but get caught behind them because I refuse to go through the red lights they ride through. Anyway, somewhat off topic now.I agree with your point about being assertive though - the gutter is the worst place to cycle, by far!
Edited by Maxf on Monday 3rd October 16:52
saaby93 said:
Derek Smith said:
I saw some stats a few years ago re: cycling serious injury/deaths where lorries were involved.
It would appear that those who were at greatest risk were not the generally aggressive/assertive riders who push between vehicles. It was those who stayed in the gutter, who didn't push to the front of the queue.
There was a video a while back showing a tipper truck signalling leftIt would appear that those who were at greatest risk were not the generally aggressive/assertive riders who push between vehicles. It was those who stayed in the gutter, who didn't push to the front of the queue.
The aggressive assertive guy went up the inside and took off before the lights changed
The quiet unassuming gal who followed him up the inside because everyone else is doing it so must be safe, and who wouldnt set off until the lights were green was alongside the tipper truck back wheels as it began moving.
Is it about setting example?
In all other cases I just hang back.
The number of numpties that wobble past, oblivious to the danger is eyeopening. Very often the same people who don't wear helmets, cycle with headphones in, jump read lights, etc.
Kermit power said:
Derek Smith said:
I'm not sure what your point is regarding having to overtake the cyclists again. I could equally point out that you might just as well stayed behind them without increasing your journey time. Why overtake them? More to the point, why get annoyed with them? They've not done anything illegal.
Read his post again, Derek. They have done something illegal. They've jumped the red light. If they hadn't, then he'd only need to overtake them once!Riders like that are vermin.
I frequently find myself overtaking the same ones two or three times in the same ride, as I stop at lights and they slowly cruise through them. They're the cycling equivalent of those people who drive everywhere at 40 regardless of the speed limit, but much, much worse.One one occasion, someone did this to me on four occasions in the space of 7 miles! When I went past, yet again, I politely asked him, if he really insisted on making all cyclists look like t
ts by jumping the red lights, please could he at least shift his arse afterwards so that all the rest of us didn't keep having to go out into traffic to get past him. Two of the other cyclists going past him yet again took their hands off the bars to applaud! It is always the slow cyclists that jump red lights - faster guys are usually happy for the pause to recover before the next segment.
Had a pair of cyclists on a narrowish road in the evening rush hour chatting to each other side by side, causing a massive traffic jam because people couldn't overtake. You could see drivers getting irritated and starting to squeeze past, cue lots of 2 finger salutes from the cyclists to the motorists and back again. I was wondering if a punch up was going to happen.
Lack of consideration is responded to inkind, this pair of cyclists weren't being considerate to other road users and ultimately it ends badly for all involved.
Lack of consideration is responded to inkind, this pair of cyclists weren't being considerate to other road users and ultimately it ends badly for all involved.
AVV EM said:
Cyclists cause more cycling accidents.
Such as this onehttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3821609/Mo...
Very sad she lost her life, but no helmet, been out drinking and too busy taking selfies to look at the road
The point is that cyclists are vulnerable. The cycles lanes in many areas are poor and unsafe.
Further, research has shown that the aggressive cyclists, those who put themselves into positions where drivers have to drive around them, are the safest. The ones who cycle in the gutter, and any cyclist will see them keeping to the side of the road, wobbling around drains, are the ones who suffer the injuries and deaths.
Cyclists are on the road by right. If a cyclist is injured by a lorry because the cyclist was out of the view of the lorry driver's field of view, then it is the lorry driver who is at fault.
It is a shame that more cyclists do not follow the RSPA's advice on cycling.
I stuck to the regulations and this caused all sorts of misbehaviour by car/van drivers. The regs should be changed to protect cyclists, and roads engineered to facilitate their needs.
Much is made on this thread about cyclists jumping red traffic lights yet the stats show these riders are less likely to be injured. Has anyone on here not broken the speed limit just to arrive somewhere a little earlier?
Further, research has shown that the aggressive cyclists, those who put themselves into positions where drivers have to drive around them, are the safest. The ones who cycle in the gutter, and any cyclist will see them keeping to the side of the road, wobbling around drains, are the ones who suffer the injuries and deaths.
Cyclists are on the road by right. If a cyclist is injured by a lorry because the cyclist was out of the view of the lorry driver's field of view, then it is the lorry driver who is at fault.
It is a shame that more cyclists do not follow the RSPA's advice on cycling.
I stuck to the regulations and this caused all sorts of misbehaviour by car/van drivers. The regs should be changed to protect cyclists, and roads engineered to facilitate their needs.
Much is made on this thread about cyclists jumping red traffic lights yet the stats show these riders are less likely to be injured. Has anyone on here not broken the speed limit just to arrive somewhere a little earlier?
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff